E60 M5 - German Links ...

[LateNightCable]

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Good luck reading German since the following articles published in Auto Zeitung don't seem to translate. But regardless of one's knowledge of the German language, they still give us insight into the mechanical specifics of the new M5, as well as the performance, since one of these is a road tests

Guten tag!

- LateNightCable

* The first link talks about the new 7-speed SMG transmission, showing us the odd-ball layout of the M5's gears - and proving why SMG is a must.

http://www.bmw.com/generic/de/de/products/automobiles/pdf/az24_bmw_smg.pdf

* An in depth road test from Auto Zeitung, including many stats ...

http://www.bmw.com/generic/de/de/products/automobiles/pdf/bmw_m5_et_az23_04.pdf

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo LateNightCable,

 

kennst du schon E60 M5 - German Links ... (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

BMW M Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | BMW M Tuning (Anzeige) | BMW M Uhren (Anzeige)

[LateNightCable]

This information has been around a while, but the U.S. market M5 will be made available with a more conventional 6-speed manual for late-2006 or early 2007, in place of the standard 7-speed SMG box. Americans aren't as into F1 shifting as the Europeans, so now we have a choice.

I assume this will translate to the M6 as well.

[bleh]

we probably wont be getting the 7 speed because we around aloud to go over 70mph in this country and in a lot of states we arent aloud over 65

[wEstSide]

I bet they'll offer it. It's an awesome gimmick, like with the M3 SMG II.

[LateNightCable]

We aren't aloud to do 155+ either, but the options are there.

I'm fairly certain the SMG will at least be offered, if not standard. After all, there are other cars on the U.S. market with a 7-speed, Mercedes namely.

[GIR]

we probably wont be getting the 7 speed because we around aloud to go over 70mph in this country and in a lot of states we arent aloud over 65

In NL the topspeed on the highway is 120km/h (or 75mph), but the 7 speed SMG III is still standard over here.

I'm not so sure about the 6 speed manual thingy for the US, up untill now I thought it was a rumour and not a comfirmed fact. The thing is that EU has always been the manual market while the US tend to lean towards auto's. I don't if this is also true for high performance cars but given the fact that most M5 buyers don't even care about racing but just want to spend the money I'm pretty sure that they'll want the 7 speed auto over the 6 speed manual, it has 1 gear more and is auto...

Now given that the EU is a manual market and the EU is also the home of BMW it would make more sense for then to release a 6 speed manual in the EU rather then the US.

The reason that the US buyers have been begging BMW for a 6 speed manual is nonsense in my eyes. I'm sure EU buyers would opt for a 6 speed manual if given the option and we want that option as badly as the US buyers.

The 7 speed SMG isn't as bad as it seems or atleast so I hear. Yes in the higer programmes it does shift very hard but c'mon it's a frikkin 507bhp race saloon. What did you expect? Fast cars and comfort do not mix! If you want a fast car and not spill your coffee in hard turns buy a Merc and stop yapping about the shifting in the M5. The E60 M5 does have a good compromise between both. In the lower programmes (which Isn't being mentioned in the press at all) the shifting is very smooth, smooth for a race salloon that is.

[LateNightCable]

The U.S. manual thing may or may not be rumour, but although it is true most U.S. buyers just want to floss. There is indeed a large group here ( mostly devoted M-car drivers ) with a lot of say. They requested an M3 sedan in the U.S. and BMW made one. It was a hit.

[Fabuloussaiso]

here the translation - note: my english isn't the best

Shift faster !

For the gearbox the new high-rpm concept of the BMW M5 is very difficult to handle it because there is no manuf. for gearboxes that can manage more than 550NM of torque and 507hp @ 8500rpm ( ooook !) This is the reason why the "M GmbH" (GmbH is such as the Ltd in the states - M is the BMW sportsline - you should know it), had to make their own gearbox for this engine. Klaus Schmidt, the contrivancer for gearboxes at M decided to make a 7-step sequential gearbox because it has lower "rpm and torque jumps" than the regular 5 or 6 speed gearbox and a continuous acceleration: 0-100km/h (0-60mph) = 4,4 sec. and 13,9sec the new M5 cross the 200km/h speed (120mph).

"Shifting like Schumacher" (the german F1 Driver)

You can shift with a shiftknob in the center console or with flaps on the steering wheel. alternative you can let the boardcomputer do this job and you can let him shift like a normal automatic gearbox. Unlike the regular AT Gearbox there is no torqueconverter that needs power from the engine. An Electro-Hydraulic controls the clutch and do the shift process. For this job the new M5 has a hydraulic system that works with with a systempressure of 90bar and respond very fast. An ECU controls solenoids which opens in thousandth part the clutch - switch gear and adhesion in the same time. Tranny specialist Schmidt tells us that this system works 20% faster than the SMG II in the new M3, the new M5 can accelerate without jerk to his topspeed. If you switch back (i.e. from 5th to 4th gear) the engine will intermediate throttle application like a race driver will do it - just faster ! A gearbox like this, without mechanical connections is very compact to produce , in the aluminum gearbox are the gearwheels placed that they doesn't need much space. The heavy claimed gearwheels from the 1st and 2nd gear are placed in bearings near. To take advantage from this system, while the shift-fork takes one gear out, another shift-fork takes the next gear in - at the same time, this increase shift speed. The complete control unit of the hydraulic system is placed in the gearbox as well as the control valve.

That Gearwheels, bearings and shafts stay in the gearbox for ever, the mechanics used special steel. A teflon-coat is used to decrease friction - this is necessary because the gearbox has temperature stadart of 110°C with it's own cooling systen - because of the high rpm's. Another characteristic is the "Drivelogic-System", a technique where the driver can individual adjust the shift procedure. With a button in the center console the driver can adjust the shift time. The higher the rpm's and and the throttle of the engine is the faster are the shift time's. You're able to switch between balanced dynamic and super racy.

With the "Launch control" function you're able to reach max. acceleration. The driving dynamic control will be disabled in this mod and the electronic takes the shift-up process instead of the driver. With optimized slip at the rear wheels the M5 accelerate till it's top speed and inform the driver with a HUD in which gear he is at this time. A grade-assistant prevent the roll back on hills/acclivities while driveaway and defer the shift points in a way if it goes up or down.

i hope you can understand it. When I've got time I'll translate the other sheet (if it's not too much).

And now - RESPECT to me

[LateNightCable]

And now - RESPECT to me

Right.

Thanks for the translation though.

[bleh]

Thanks for the translation though.

i had to lengthen my post by 10 characters. that is the purpose of this line

[Anzeige Amazon]

Hallo LateNightCable,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema BMW M (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[crimplover]

Do you think the new M5 will out perform and be quicker than the E55 AMG? Sorry if this is a dumb question. That E55 is just so quick! It would be so great if the M5 came out and showed that E55 who his daddy was I do like the 6 speed manual option though. You know us American's...we want options

[LateNightCable]

Objectively speaking, M5 is by far the natural athlete of the two. E55 AMG is a strong car, but handling wise it can't match the M5.

As far as straight line performance, they both take off like a runaway train. Although the Benz encounters traction problems early on due to it's massive low end torque and front weight bias.

[crimplover]

Objectively speaking, M5 is by far the natural athlete of the two. E55 AMG is a strong car, but handling wise it can't match the M5.

As far as straight line performance, they both take off like a runaway train. Although the Benz encounters traction problems early on due to it's massive low end torque and front weight bias.

That makes sense. It doesn't appear AMG has anything that compares to BMW's (DSC). I wonder why

[LateNightCable]

Stability control is one thing, but also the M5 has better chassis balance and the suspension is simply a finer honed intrument for performance driving. They are nearly the same weight, the BMW being a little lighter, but the M5 carries it better.

The AMG is like a 4-door muscle car, and the M5 a bit like a 4-door Formula 1 racer. That would be a good way to describe the feel of them.

[Thunf]

Objectively speaking, M5 is by far the natural athlete of the two. E55 AMG is a strong car, but handling wise it can't match the M5.

As far as straight line performance, they both take off like a runaway train. Although the Benz encounters traction problems early on due to it's massive low end torque and front weight bias.

Sorry, on the contrary! Almost all mags I've read they said that the E55 has an advantage from start to about 70 km/h. And that was the Wagon model, not the sedan!

[LateNightCable]

Sorry, on the contrary! Almost all mags I've read they said that the E55 has an advantage from start to about 70 km/h. And that was the Wagon model, not the sedan!

I'm primarely speaking of the sedan, which could very well have different dynamics than the wagon - the wagon could have more weight in the rear. But if the E55 does have an advantage to 70 km/h. it still has traction issues.

[Thunf]

I agree that M5 is lighter, it's also faster. But 700 Nm is not disappearing, it isn't much slower. The E-class is slightly heavier because it's safer than the 5 series.

EuroNCAP (crashtest):

Mercedes-Benz E-Class

Adult occupant rating 5 Stars

Test Scores: Front 13 (81%) Side 18 (100%) Belt Reminder 2 Overall 33 Pedestrian 4 (11%)

BMW 5-Series

Adult occupant rating 4 stars

Test Scores: Front 11 (69%) Side 16 (89%) Belt Reminder 2 Overall 29 Pedestrian 2 (6%)

The new M5 is a true sportcar with it's advantage and disadvantages. E55 is safer and fast and M5 is faster.

[crimplover]

I agree that M5 is lighter, it's also faster. But 700 Nm is not disappearing, it isn't much slower. The E-class is slightly heavier because it's safer than the 5 series.

EuroNCAP (crashtest):

Mercedes-Benz E-Class

Adult occupant rating 5 Stars

Test Scores: Front 13 (81%) Side 18 (100%) Belt Reminder 2 Overall 33 Pedestrian 4 (11%)

BMW 5-Series

Adult occupant rating 4 stars

Test Scores: Front 11 (69%) Side 16 (89%) Belt Reminder 2 Overall 29 Pedestrian 2 (6%)

The new M5 is a true sportcar with it's advantage and disadvantages. E55 is safer and fast and M5 is faster.

So...are you saying the new M5 out performs the E55 simply because of the E55's saftey features?

[Thunf]

So...are you saying the new M5 out performs the E55 simply because of the E55's saftey features?

No. Where? I said that the E55 is heavier because of one thing. I said also that M5 is faster. Also the 5 has a stronger engine and certainly faster at higher speed due to highrevving and close gearing. I have never said anything about M5 outperforms E55 only because E-class is contructed to withstand a crash better. I have no doubts the M5 is great! But I'm glad there will be choices! There would be no 500+ hp M5 V10 without the existance of E55 (and no E55 without the E39 M5)!

[LateNightCable]

Truth be told, in regards to safety, both the E-Class and 5 Series are no doubt two of the safest cars on the road. BMW and Mercedes are renowned for their safety engineering.

Sports car-like handling, buttoned down body control and strong breaks could all be considered passive safety features.

[crimplover]

No. Where? I said that the E55 is heavier because of one thing. I said also that M5 is faster. Also the 5 has a stronger engine and certainly faster at higher speed due to highrevving and close gearing. I have never said anything about M5 outperforms E55 only because E-class is contructed to withstand a crash better. I have no doubts the M5 is great! But I'm glad there will be choices! There would be no 500+ hp M5 V10 without the existance of E55 (and no E55 without the E39 M5)!

Sorry Thunf, I misunderstood you. I've been known to do that from time-to-time

[Thunf]

No problem!

[cstavaru]

To be honest, it's disappointing that the 5-series BMW only has 4 stars at Euro-NCap. Even Renault Megane or some other entry-level car has 5 stars...This is a shame for BMW.

[Thunf]

Ford Focus in EuroNCAP has front collision 100%, side 100%. It's definately a shame that some new luxury cars have 4 stars, even the E-class with 5 stars didn't make it 100% in front collision like a cheap Focus.

[BMW5X]

Do you think the new M5 will out perform and be quicker than the E55 AMG? Sorry if this is a dumb question. That E55 is just so quick! It would be so great if the M5 came out and showed that E55 who his daddy was I do like the 6 speed manual option though. You know us American's...we want options

Unless you spend a lot of time on a race track or your local autobahn, the 550i will blow by the M5/6 and many other high revving pseudo racecars. It's all about torque and physics: M5 has 380 ft/lbs torque @ 6100 rpm and weighs 200 pounds more; 550i has 360 ft/lbs of torque @3400 rpm, plus a torque converter and automatic kickdowns in the steptronics, which doesn't jerk you around in any gear. People who buy M5's are either speed nuts or image guys who haven't done their homework and have an extra $25,000 to blow and a car that can't even do more than 18 mpg on the highway. My 550i is capable after break in of zero to sixties around 5 or less and I have seen 30 mpg on level highways at 60 mph+ with the 32mph per thousand rpm in 6th gear. My 550i has no badge on the rear so many people who tail gate me or try to cut me off on the highway are left with their hearts in their mouths when I press the loud pedal to the floor. Surprise is worth at least 100 horsepower.