Vindicated.

[SERGIOE34]

I dont care how fast it is,I wouldnt be caut driving a neon even if i got it for free.Id probly sell it and get a car that i wouldnt feel like a fag in.Mayby a boxter.The srt-4 is the perfect car for a ricer to buy, put a giant wing on it and fart pipe exaust.Then go around thinking he could take on lambos.

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Hallo thepolarfoxqx,

 

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[bleh]

the skidpad is not the end all of handling, it is just one of the measurements. i dont know what your sources are but i am still skeptical as to which pulls higher numbers on the skidpad. my main concern is not so much validity but that it is on the same skidpad. a 100ft skidpad will yeild different results than a 200ft. the handling of a car really cannot be justified by any numbers as there are either other factors involved or it is an incomplete analysis.

while we are on the subject of traction with the lsd and all, if you add power to the porche the is still a bit you can do for traction in all around driving. if you up the boost on the neon, you will spin fourth gear and there near nothing you can do about it. i dont care how stiff the rear suspension is or if you have 10in wide tires in the front, as far all around driving goes the neon cant handle its power.

[skyline_r34v]

By the way, does anyone want to race my Schwinn? Or how about my Pinto?

kleinfish i officially declare u no longer the dream car pool.

I give LNC the CP car pool dream garage award.

**bows to his almighty car pool and prays one day his will be as awesome**

[jterp]

if you up the boost on the neon, you will spin fourth gear and there near nothing you can do about it

tell this to the guys running low 13's with just the stage II upgrade. FWD can't handle 800 hp -- but it can handle 300 at the crank.

Keep in mind that the following stats are for the STOCK SRT-4-- stage 3 packages include adjustable suspension components that would not doubt improve on these:

On the 200 ft skidpad, the porsche boxster S pulled .89g. On the 200 ft skidpad the STOCK SRT-4 pulled .86g. I concede that the porsche has a slight advantage here. As you said, however, the skidpad is not the end all say all of handling. The porsche went through the 700 ft./6 cone slalom at a speed of 65.7 MPH while the Neon went through the 700 ft/6 cone slalom at 69 MPH.

Does the neon perform like a $50k car? No, not at all. It performs like the best in class $20k car should. Does the boxster perform like a $50k car? No, it performs like a neon.

[LateNightCable]

I dont care how fast it is,I wouldnt be caut driving a neon even if i got it for free. Id probly sell it and get a car that i wouldnt feel like a fag in.

For your information, many consider the Boxter rather "fag"-like. And whether Sergioe would feel like a "fag" driving it or not has no bearing on it's position as a prime sportster at all, none whatsoever. An SRT/4 needs no fart pipe, the standard twin pipe exhaust is much better, and the car isn't trying to take on Lambos, more like Boxters' and everything beneath it.

The SRT/4 can handle it's power a hell of a lot better than the Porsche 911 did once upon a time.

And the Pinto is stock, I've never done a thing to it. Honest.

[bleh]

jterp i dont think you have much experience with fwd cars and you are blessed that you dont have to.

when i said that they would just spin tires i ment coming out of a turn. of course a guy that brags about running 13s would think traction is fine his only issues with traction are the launch and 2nd gear. when turns are involved it gets much more complex.

so we once again go back to the type of driving. now my analysis as to the type of driving using the given data: the 200ft skidpad and a 700ft/6 cone slalom are high speed handling. it has a roof...that helps. the 700ft/6cone is, to me, just short the equivalent of changing lanes on a minor highway. i know that is the standard slalom but it really only indicates very gradual shifts in weight and also allows for the turbo to spool. i am very curious to see how the statistics are for a 100ft skidpad with both cars... but behold: i am too lazy.

in conclusion: the srt-4 is either a drag car or a highway burner, which in my book is still very monolithic, but still cannot even compete with the boxter as an all around sports car.

[izzyloveslizzy]

I don't know about whether people look like a fag in the SRT-4 just because it's a Neon or if it's because of it's color. I mean I could live with an SRT-4 Neon, and it's a totally different class of car than a Boxster (that should be well-established by now). But does the SRT-4 have to be so goddamn yellow? I mean, if they made it in Black or Silver I might look at it twice, but the Yellow is just blindingly gay. Sorry, Dodge. You make some good cars, but this has gone too far. I'm not entirely in favor of car companies polishing horse-crap and pretending like it's a different car with a new image. The performance might be better than the average neon, but it's still a terrible car. I don't care how much modding was done to the body and what effect the turbo gives the performance or whatever. And who in the hell compared it to a Boxster? Have you ever seen a Boxster and a Neon in the same sentence anywhere else? Probably not. And for good reason too. The Boxster's a 5-star car. The neon wouldn't even get 1-and-a-half in my book, SRT-4 or otherwise.... And I'd have to disagree with the assumption that you might look gay in a Boxster. Of all the people who might see you driving a Boxster, 99% will just say, "hey that guy has a cool car..." or, "hey, that's a nice ride...". But you probably won't look at a Boxster and think, "man, that dude must be gay or something". I know I don't think that way.

[djfux69]

im pretty sure the neon comes in other colors, thats just the " sportiest" one.

[jterp]

i am very curious to see how the statistics are for a 100ft skidpad with both cars... but behold: i am too lazy.

in conclusion: the srt-4 is either a drag car or a highway burner, which in my book is still very monolithic,

Then your analysis is really nothing more than speculation, isn't it? In the most standard of lateral grip testing the Neon has performed nearly as well and better than the boxster S, that is a fact. To assume that it will perform worse in a seperate series of tests really does nothing for the factual base of this argument. I have driven this car -- (A first year car that had the LSD installed aftermarket as well as the stage 1 injector upgrade) and I had no problem keeping traction around the track. I agree that RWD is a better platform -- no questions asked. But in this application I believe that FWD serves its purpose and serves it well -- well enough to outperform the porsche Boxster S.

But does the SRT-4 have to be so goddamn yellow?

<moves rock, pulls izzyloveslizzy out from under it> --

Dude, its a car. When you go to buy one at a store they have a whole bunch of colors to choose from -- you pick the one you like best.

Sorry, Dodge. You make some good cars, but this has gone too far. I'm not entirely in favor of car companies polishing horse-crap and pretending like it's a different car with a new image. The performance might be better than the average neon, but it's still a terrible car.

Why do you insist on posting when you haven't read the entire thread? Every question and comment you made in your post has been answered or addressed already -- apparently you haven't bothered to read the previous comments before posting. Yes, the performance is better than the average neon -- IT IS ALSO BETTER THAN THE PORSCHE BOXSTER S. If you are too ignorant to put aside your bias toward American cars then why post on the subject? If you would open your eyes and stop being dazzled by the dollar signs that follow high end german cars you would realize that the neon SRT-4 is actually a well designed high performance machine worthy of praise. It was built to give alot of performance for a little bit of money -- which it does very well. You apparently know nothing about the car and have nothing to add to this thread besides "I hate its color" (WTF?) and "It's still a neon." -- If you can't drop the elitist attitude please stop wasting our time.

[LateNightCable]

Hey Izzy, hows it going? Haven't seen you in ages. I don't blame you for jumping the gun and posting before reading the thread fully.

I think the SRT/4 is an exciting thing though, and I wonder why some refuse to see at as nothing but a Neon. Would they rather that Dodge had never made it at all? Come on.

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Hallo thepolarfoxqx,

 

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[bleh]

well we definitely have different opinions on fwd cars. i dont think you drove the car at its limits. if you did then you havent driven fwd cars that perform better aside from the relm of muscle.

an lsd will not completely rid torque steer and in the case of actually taking turns at the limit it will increase understeer. before you said the srt4 ran 13s and had no problem with grip. you really must clarify what track since that is what my argument is based off of. i have seen the srt4 in action and was impressed with its straightline ability and engine strength, but there is no way you could ever convince me that a srt-4 is better than a boxter in auto-x especially when it is unable to beat the first generation of neons.

[jterp]

if you did then you havent driven fwd cars that perform better aside from the relm of muscle.

What do FWD cars and muscle cars have to do with each other? The Srt-4 is in fact the only FWD car that I have driven on a track --- but I was not comparing it to other FWD cars so what does that matter? Yes, it is FWD, so Yes it has torque steer and understeer. I never said it did not. I said that even with its torque steer and understeer, it is able to outperform the boxster S.

you really must clarify what track since that is what my argument is based off of

I have spoken to the mopar performance team and seen them drag race these cars at various mopar meets I go to during the summer, including the Chrysler Classic at National Trails Raceway in Columbus, Ohio. A car club friend of mine has one and he let me drive it around Summit Point raceway in WV during a weekend DE.

especially when it is unable to beat the first generation of neons.

huh?

[djfux69]

the first gen neons were sick at autocross. remeber the acr neon? it was built for autocross. they are much more capable then the srt4.

[jterp]

I actually had a chance to buy one of those ACR neons this past summer -- It was a '95 that had been auto-x'd by a guy named wally ___ (cant remember his last name) who was a big wig at chrysler back in the day. He actually died at the wheel of the car (heartattack i think) -- the car only had 3500 miles on it and i think they wanted $5000.... They were good handling cars but they certainly were no SRT-4's -- they motors were basically stock except for the lightweight intake manifold and the exhaust system. No chance they would beat an SRT-4 at anything.

[djfux69]

stock for stock, on a technical course the acr beats the srt every time. a friend of mine has an acr, he goes to all the mopar autocross events.

[bleh]

What do FWD cars and muscle cars have to do with each other? The Srt-4 is in fact the only FWD car that I have driven on a track --- but I was not comparing it to other FWD cars so what does that matter? Yes, it is FWD, so Yes it has torque steer and understeer. I never said it did not. I said that even with its torque steer and understeer, it is able to outperform the boxster S.

i wasnt talking about muscle cars. i was talking about the muscle(power) of the srt4 and how there are so many fwd cars that perform so much better power set aside. i dont think it will outperform the boxster S outside of drag races and highway showdowns and there is nothing you can do to convince me otherwise.

I have spoken to the mopar performance team and seen them drag race these cars at various mopar meets I go to during the summer, including the Chrysler Classic at National Trails Raceway in Columbus, Ohio. A car club friend of mine has one and he let me drive it around Summit Point raceway in WV during a weekend DE. huh?

the rest of this just shows me that your only argument is for straightline racing

[bleh]

No chance they would beat an SRT-4 at anything.

ive decided that you dont know what your talking about. i have a very large amount of respect for the acr neon... and as far as autox goes it will destroy the srt-4

another good point that should be brought to light is whether or not you have driven the boxter...

[jterp]

the rest of this just shows me that your only argument is for straightline racing

SUMMIT POINT RACEWAY:

i have a very large amount of respect for the acr neon... and as far as autox goes it will destroy the srt-4

Can you tell me why? What about this car's tuning, as opposed to a stock neon, makes you feel this way?

Understandably, at an autocross (where power is not necessarily a huge advantage) the ACR neon would fare better than at an actual track-- but as far as I know the suspension on the ACR cars was not anything extremely advanced -- it was still a FWD car (and a non LSD FWD car at that)..

Yes I have driven the boxster.

[bleh]

ill admit that i took it too far as to say that you were only focused on straightline.

Can you tell me why? What about this car's tuning, as opposed to a stock neon, makes you feel this way?

its simple, weight and balance. the 1g neon was the best for my tastes.

Understandably, at an autocross (where power is not necessarily a huge advantage) the ACR neon would fare better than at an actual track-- but as far as I know the suspension on the ACR cars was not anything extremely advanced -- it was still a FWD car (and a non LSD FWD car at that)..

No chance they would beat an SRT-4 at anything.

all the new stuff and the srt4 only fares with it. the srt4 has much more power and the lsd helps put the power down. there is no progress in that area and with that area i am not impressed.

[jterp]

Ok, so there has been no progression in the area of suspension... but there certainly been no regression -- I (correct me if i am wrong) was under the impression that the suspension on the SRT4 was derived from the suspension on the ACR... -- So what would make the ACR perform better? The fact that it has 100 fewer FWHP and relatively the same amount of weight? Did the ACR car actually pull 1 g? On which skidpad? I would be very interested in seeing some statistical information that backs this up.

[bleh]

think about it

srt4 2870lbs . . . 1836.8front / 1033.2rear

acr 2567lbs . . . 1565.87front / 1001.13rear

also where did you get all of the stats on the srt4?

[LateNightCable]

i dont think it will outperform the boxster S outside of drag races and highway showdowns and there is nothing you can do to convince me otherwise.

I'd say thats' pretty important, wouldn't you?

The SRT/4 is the finest Neon ever created, if only for the simple fact that the car has undergone quite a bit of steady improvement since the days of " Hi ".

[bleh]

drag races and highway sprints are pretty important but for some people other or more advantages are required.

i hope i dont make this seem too personal but i am taking the stance i do with the srt4 because my car is in-fact the exact opposite. sure it too is a front wheel drive sedan but i started to appreciate the fact that my car is quite light and nimble although grossly underpowered. it could be because of this that i think all fwd cars with any kind of performance in mind would also be agile. i know a lot of you are going to try to tell me that the srt4 is relatively light, but i still think it is roughly 200lbs over the ideal weight of any performance fwd car

lnc you are very right though, the srt4 is a huge accomplishment in the domestic market and like the 350z i hope it will force better deals out of the competition.

another interesting tangent is to consider the s2000 and the srt4. would it be too contriversial to say that each should switch drivetrains? or switch engines? should i make a new thread?

for some reason i feel like im going to get flamed for this post...

[izzyloveslizzy]

Not much time to answer everything, so I'll get to some points quickly.

Sup LateNight. Good to see you're so active here (took my mod. job!). Heh. It's all good. It's goin' pretty shitty here.

I didn't read the entire thread 'cuz I didn't have time but I just wanted to respond to that SRT-4 thing. Doesn't matter to me if it comes in other colors or not. The one everyone loves to post pics of seems to be the yellow one and that pisses me off. I know there are other colors!

As for the performance, it's quite good, but it's no smooth Boxster. Might even be faster but it's still a sedan that was crappy to begin with, and now it's on steroids wearing a bra. Great. Just what we needed. Another one of THOSE. And JTerp, for pete's sake don't say things that can come back to bite you on the ass. If you'd read my other posts (which I made long ago - I haven't been here for a long time) you'd know that I'm one of the people who always defended American cars when everyone else was dissin' every effort the American Mo-Industry ever made. The SRT-4 might be a good enough car for many, but for me there's a lot about it that just doesn't cut it. But I'll resevre the rest of my judgement until I've driven the hell out of it. That's all for now, kids. Gotta go save the world.

- Izzy

[skyline_r34v]

Like i said find me nething new for under $20k that outdoes this car.

And i'll personally hand u a big pile of horse shit to ya. :x

It may look "only like a neon" nuttin a lil radical but not 2 radical of a body kit for it and it wouldn't look half assed bad.

There's this guy around town that has a turbo'd neon although its complete shit and i make circles around him but he actually has a pretty nice lookin body kit on it, it ain't half bad lookin.

So i jus think it wouldn't be that shabby if u jus find a nice kit on it and lower it sum.

Wouldn't exactly look to much like a neon after u throw a CF hood on it either.

THATS ONLY if ur wried bout it lookin like a neon that u do that.

If not hell, screw it jus make it look like a stock neon and go V8 huntin.