The Truth

[NeoAnderson84]

No, by most valuable, and for the last time i hope, i am referring to Business Week (thats a magazine) displaying the most valuable brands and at the number 10 spot of most valuable brands in the world was Mercedes Benz. And if people are willing to pay more for a car then they like it a whole lot more than the alternative, obviously, i was saying in this forum its completely one-sided by hands down, everyone here has BMW but mercedes is doing its selling obviously more prolifically, thusly generating more funds than BMW.

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo Arty25,

 

kennst du schon The Truth (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

Mercedes Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | Mercedes Zubehör (Anzeige)

[NeoAnderson84]

No im the only one here not putting other cars down!! Every one of these qualms come from some dumb BMW fanboy raggin on how mercedes cant do this cant do that! I simply state that that is wrong, Mercedes is better they prove it by making more money.

[thepolarfoxqx]

you know, you're just a bit cocky.

I think i would know what newsweek was (we investment banker types try to know just a bit about prevailing economics), and i can tell you, fortune published how much each manufacturer makes per car sold (total profit from automotive division/number of cars sold). BMW makes more than Daimler Chrysler. If you took the chysler off the end, BMW still made more per car than Daimler last year. I'm not quite a dumb fan boy.

And if you knew as much about business as you pretend to, you would know that there is a huge difference between a buyout and a merger, speaking of course in terms of what is neccesary to clear the regulators. The daimler chrysler deal was classified as a "Merger of Equals". They had no reason to claim that if it wasn't true. It was not bought for $36M, sorry. You don't call it a merger if it's a buyout. The deal was more than 95% composed of a stock swap, that sounds an awful lot like a merger to me.

There has not been a fundamental overhaul of the Mercedes engine line in a while. In 1998, they had a partial overhaul. Before that, it was the late 80s. In 1998, they moved from the single spark plug DOHC 4V layout they were using to a twin spark plug non-hemispheric SOHC 3V head layout. The V12 has stayed the same since the late 90s, they added turbos, but the engine itself has not changed largely. As far as technology goes, they are a bit behind the times, Jaguar, BMW, Audi, Nissan, and Toyota are all ahead at the moment, not all by a lot, but they are ahead. Mercedes' engines get their intended job done well, but they aren't best in class.

[LateNightCable]

Business Week and Mercedes concern themselves with one thing - business. Ultimately, the business, the profit, number of cars sold hasn't much to do with the cars. Cars matter. Mercedes is simply deft at marketing themselves, as their attempt to drown the market shows as evident.

One could say that BMW is just a lot more selective about how they run their business, and build their cars.

[NeoAnderson84]

Dang Fox, it says in ur profile ur a engineer and student dont it? well boy howdy us justa prodigy aint ya?

I dont claim to know business, ABC news can be quoted as saying "When Daimler-Benz gained control of Chrysler in 1998, the $36 billion buyout of one of America’s Big Three carmakers..." yes they merged but Daimler "took control". Thats all i know.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/TheStreet/hottopics_000721.html

An overhaul in both 90, 93 and 98 occurred in the 6 cylinders, again i dont care about he 4 cylinders. and the v12s same since late 90s, its only 03, thats still pretty recent. especially when one is in the works (which i know you'll argue).

Mercedes engines right now produce more horse than all those companies, their "class", so yeah they are best, and if hey really havent changed i know they're reliable. U call everyone cocky, it doesnt offend me. So whatever.

BMW can make more per car if they want they still arent worth more. Besides if mercedes cost more, and make less profit per car, then they are obviously, undeniably more expensive to produce. And doesnt it mean that BMWs are being built cheaper and selling for more overhead, Combatting kevins argument that mercedes is doing just that. So thank you, bout time i get some help in herrrre. its like fighting off the barons eh?

uhhh.. what else?? oh with money comes quality, in time, Mercedes will no doubt be produced better, to prove this facet they released the Maybach and SLR

[kleinefisch]

Honda brings in far more money than say, Ferrari. Are you trying to say that Hondas are better because of earnings?

[NeoAnderson84]

they are a better business, thats what im saying

[LateNightCable]

Mercedes engines right now produce more horse than all those companies, their "class", so yeah they are best. uhhh.. what else?? oh with money comes quality

Is that ignorant or what ??

If thats' the truth, that don't you think they should be charging less for their cars since MB is in a quality slump? I don't see them doing it. They are collecting that cash right on schedual.

[Kevin321]

from what i can tell, kevin, you arent none too bright or perceptive anyhow. Id love to see a daewoo sell for 125 K since theyre the same level and all, BTW do u have a car kevin?

neo you need to shut the hell up, cuz I know more about cars than

your stupid ass.

[Kevin321]

and yes I do have a car :roll:

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo Arty25,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für Mercedes (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

[kleinefisch]

WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!

Will everybody stop bickering and insulting each other. NOBODY will ever take you seriously if you interact with other people like this. This a high quality car forum website, not a cheesy chat-room where you can talk trash and all that. The word "forum" comes from ancient Greece. It was the center of the town where people could come and make inteligent discussion.

[LateNightCable]

You're right about that. If Neo drops by again, we BMW folks will just try to ignore him ( at least I will ). Nobody needs a ruckus around here. Thats' not what the forum is about.

[GIR]

No, by most valuable, and for the last time i hope, i am referring to Business Week (thats a magazine) displaying the most valuable brands and at the number 10 spot of most valuable brands in the world was Mercedes Benz. And if people are willing to pay more for a car then they like it a whole lot more than the alternative, obviously, i was saying in this forum its completely one-sided by hands down, everyone here has BMW but mercedes is doing its selling obviously more prolifically, thusly generating more funds than BMW.

Funny, I hope you're not reffering to the list wherein Lexus is first and MB is dropping everytime they revise the list. Cause MB used to be at the #1 spot you know.

First off all like I stated before, I have owned a S500 and yes it is a wonderfull vehicle to drive but, like I've said many times before, MB (specialy the S class) is not a sports vehicle, it's supposed to be a luxury cruiser.

Ofcourse you can slap on a huge engine and make it go fast but that's like slapping on more engines onto a luxury yacht and make it compete with a speedboat. It just isn't the same.

With the use of electronics like ABC, ESP and Speedshift they are able to get it off to ground safely and comfortably but once these go off you have a out of control beast which nobody can tame.

Also all the MB cars, and yes I do mean all of them, are way too overpriced compared to the competition. Now if MB's quality qas on track then I would say okay I'll pay for it but it's not. Just look at my S500. A van crashed into the side of it. The B pilar and the whole roof was offset, the insurance company declared it finacaily totaled because the costs of having it repaired was higher then the current value. Anywayz the crash wasn't that hard yet the whole side is gone... On the old MB's that could never have happend.

When you buy a MB you pay alot for the name. With that name comes prestige, quality and an eye for detail. The prestige is stll there but the aulity and details are gone. Why would you pay for something you're not getting?

When you're rich and I mean stinking rich. And you want to buy a car. You don't know anything about cars. What comes to your mind? Yes a Merc. Every stinking rich weener with too much money buys a Merc without thinking twice because they can spare the money and that's why MB is still doing good bussiness, specialy in the US where the mayority of people don't seem to think at all when it comes to cars wether you're rich or not.

Daimler-Benz and Chrysler did merge. You are the only one who I have ever met who claims that it was a buyout rather then a merger. If it was a buy out then why is Daimler-Benz AG called Daimler-Chrysler? If Daimler-Benz did buy Chrysler then why would they change their name? I mean GM isn't called GM-Opel and Ford isn't called Ford-Jaguar either.

like I've said many times before, bhp is a meaningless figure. Give me the torque curve and the weight of the car and I'll tell you wether it's good or not. And like I've said in this post, slap a big enough engine onto a yacht and eventualy it will go as fast as a speedboat... but that doesn't mean it can compete with the speedboat.

And finally the torque curve on the CL65 and S65 is disapointing to say the least. It has a very very hard dropoff at the end which kinda destroys the whole PR around the 65 series.

[NeoAnderson84]

yes money comes quality, its in the form of safety, speed, luxury looks and reliability, older cars cost the same and had less, if anything Mercedes are worth more now.

I posted a link to who said it, i didnt say it was a buyout, it was relayed from ABC. the torque may drop off, but if it falls to 300 lbs i dont have a problem with it.

By the way, appreciate the belligerance, Kevin, angeris a sign of frustration and shows ur feelings. U can know all you want but the fact remains my statements only enforce th othe side of the common opinion here.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i'll agree with latenight. I'm done responding to that kind of stuff, we don't need any more animousity.

[NeoAnderson84]

the business week article was i believe this month, it was clear lexus wasnt even on the list, it was top 10 most valuable brands topped with IBM or somebody, it included Microsoft and nokia as well

[thepolarfoxqx]

listen dude, i'm done.

[Arty25]

back to the point the only way mb makes fast cars is supercharging and turbocharged there cars to get good performance while bimmers get there good performance naturally inspired cause they dont need to supercharge there cars

[kleinefisch]

Okay, so what? Why do people always look at MB supercharging as a bad thing?? Nobody says anything bad about Saab using turbos in EVERY car they build. "MB can only make fast cars by charging", what kind of statement is that? Are you just pissed that BMW doesn't have the power to match? The fact is that MB does charge their engines, and they do make fast cars, so what does it matter?

[GIR]

Really? Lets just compare a few MB cars with a few BMW cars, okay here it goes.

520i vs E240

BMW 520i

Engine configuration: inline 6 natural

Capacity: 2171 cc

Max power: 170 bhp @ 6100 rpm

Max torque: 210 Nm @ 3500 rpm

Average mileage: 9,8l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1460 kg

0-100: 9 secs

MB E240

Engine configuration: V6 natural

Capacity: 2597 cc

Max power: 177 bhp @ 5700 rpm

Max torque: 240 Nm @ 4.500 rpm

Average mileage: 9,2l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1470 kg

0-100: 9,1 secs

530i vs E320

BMW 530i

Engine configuration: inline 6 natural

Capacity: 2979 cc

Max power: 231 bhp @ 5900 rpm

Max torque: 300 Nm @ 3500 rpm

Average mileage: 9,9l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1470 kg

0-100: 6,9 secs

MB E320

Engine configuration: V6 natural

Capacity: 3.199 cc

Max power: 224 bhp @ 5.600 rpm

Max torque: 315 Nm @ 3.000 rpm

Average mileage: 9,9l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1545 kg

0-100: 7,7 secs

545i vs E500

BMW 545i

Engine configuration: inline 8 natural

Capacity: 4398 cc

Max power: 333 bhp @ 6100 rpm

Max torque: 450 Nm @ 3600 rpm

Average mileage: 10,9l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1605 kg

0-100: 5,8 secs

MB E500

Engine configuration: V8 natural

Capacity: 4.966 cc

Max power: 306 bhp @ 5.600 rpm

Max torque: 460 Nm @ 2.700 rpm

Average mileage: 11,6l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1625 kg

0-100: 6,0 secs

---------------------

I could do the same for C class vs. 3 series and S class vs, 7 series but it's the same story.

Interesting aint it? How MB can keep up with BMW without any chargers.

[kleinefisch]

Yeah, and even if MB isn't making engines with as much power, however close, they are turning less power into more torque. The amount of torque, where, and how you put it down is the whole game anyways.

[djfux69]

this is also somethign to consider. yes the new 600s are going to put out an obscene amount of power from their TT V12s. and some of you might think that its not enough power considering there are NA v12s with similar power. but remeber this, lambos and ferraris are finely tuned street legal racecars. they are like a sharp knife, cuts amazingly, but very fragile. the MB uses forced induction as a more reliable source of power(well more reliable in comparison with lambos and ferraris, not NA cars.)

i think what mercedes is doing is great

[thepolarfoxqx]

per their size, the merc engines are not as efficient in making horsepower or torque, mercedes game has never been crank as much power as you can, they just make it solid and paletteable, and if they aren't gettting the power they need, just make it bigger. It works well for them. Mercedes should be able to keep up in all the comparos you listed GIR, their engine was bigger than the one in the BMW every single one of them, with a larger engine in the same size car, they shouldn't need a supercharger to keep up, and E320 was close to a full seccond slower to 60 than 530i, they really need to get the E320 performing a little better, because right now it looks like it is performance wise comparable with 525i.

[GIR]

Yeah I know. But the point here was that MB doesn't put their priority in making highly tuned performers like BMW does. They put their priorities in making solid and comfortable cars which some people just won't understand.

And the way some people respond makes you think MB has chargers on all their cars which isn't true. Only the AMG models have superchargers and such. And I do agree with you guyz when you say that M does a better job then AMG but look at what M is given to work with and what AMG is given to work with. MB cars are just not cut out to be racers because the initial design is not from a performance point of view so AMG has todo with what they get.

The engines might be bigger, but they are solid as a rock.

[Arty25]

Really? Lets just compare a few MB cars with a few BMW cars, okay here it goes.

520i vs E240

BMW 520i

Engine configuration: inline 6 natural

Capacity: 2171 cc

Max power: 170 bhp @ 6100 rpm

Max torque: 210 Nm @ 3500 rpm

Average mileage: 9,8l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1460 kg

0-100: 9 secs

MB E240

Engine configuration: V6 natural

Capacity: 2597 cc

Max power: 177 bhp @ 5700 rpm

Max torque: 240 Nm @ 4.500 rpm

Average mileage: 9,2l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1470 kg

0-100: 9,1 secs

530i vs E320

BMW 530i

Engine configuration: inline 6 natural

Capacity: 2979 cc

Max power: 231 bhp @ 5900 rpm

Max torque: 300 Nm @ 3500 rpm

Average mileage: 9,9l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1470 kg

0-100: 6,9 secs

MB E320

Engine configuration: V6 natural

Capacity: 3.199 cc

Max power: 224 bhp @ 5.600 rpm

Max torque: 315 Nm @ 3.000 rpm

Average mileage: 9,9l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1545 kg

0-100: 7,7 secs

545i vs E500

BMW 545i

Engine configuration: inline 8 natural

Capacity: 4398 cc

Max power: 333 bhp @ 6100 rpm

Max torque: 450 Nm @ 3600 rpm

Average mileage: 10,9l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1605 kg

0-100: 5,8 secs

MB E500

Engine configuration: V8 natural

Capacity: 4.966 cc

Max power: 306 bhp @ 5.600 rpm

Max torque: 460 Nm @ 2.700 rpm

Average mileage: 11,6l per 100 km

Curb weight: 1625 kg

0-100: 6,0 secs

---------------------

I could do the same for C class vs. 3 series and S class vs, 7 series but it's the same story.

Interesting aint it? How MB can keep up with BMW without any chargers.

hey buddy u call bmw beating an mb a good thing and yes mb does charge alot of there cars so shut ur mouth u mb lover