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Information on the Viper please.

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Hi everyone, this post is directed towards thepolarfoxqx but I thought I'd post public to hear others opinions.

I've been considering buying a used genII viper now that they are coming down in price but some of your posts have given me second thoughts. I was under the impression that the viper was an awsome track performer but then I see one of your posts stating this...

"First off - viper is not a sports car. It is a poorly designed chasis (yes, it is unstable and has unimpressive handling numbers - shamed by 4 seaters at half the price),"

I've done some research and from what I've learned the viper is just a bit below the z06 in track times. It scores around .97-.99 on the skidpad and Car and Driver claims it has the second best solom time behind the mini cooper. I also like the fact that for around $11,000 you can put out 700hp with bolt-ons (roe supercharger kit, intake/exhaust). Is there something I'm missing here?

I want a high performace car at a low cost for street and track. I know the z06 is the better deal but I kinda want something more unique and the Viper seemed to fit the bill. If not that then what would you recommend in the $50,000 range?

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thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

For 50k, if you are going for maximum bang for the buck - nothing beats the Mustang Cobra R. They are hard to find (production ceased at the end of the 2002 model year, but they are around). There is also the Saleen and Roush mustangs. The Z06 is great - though expensive. For 50k, the M Roadster is a very impressive car, especially with some dinan suspension and intake/exhaust components. A viper is a good platform for getting extra horsepower - seeing as the factory chose to use a really really big engine. You need to drive one. If you feel confident in how it handles and performs at the edge, go for it. I believe that a tuner cobra presents the best bang for the buck for track numbers. If you are looking for a car that easily gets tuned to violently large horsepower numbers, then Viper and Vette are good picks. If you drive a viper, and like it - go for it. I just find them to be a bit unpredictable - and even unstable handlers at times. The generation 1 had massive issues with lots and lots of things. Gen 2 is a lot more reasonable of a car. I just think better can be done.

Inabj2
Geschrieben

Ill politely have to disagree, from what I heard the viper is a very able handler being able to out handle cars in its price range such as the NSX. But it is not a car for the begginer driver and it takes some skill to deal with its oversteering nature, but once you do master it, it is a very able car being able to handle or even outhandle the best cars out there.

I say you test drive one, and form your own oppinion about it rather to listen to us though!

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

absolutely.

you say you need to be a very good driver to exise the handling qualities from a viper, and i think that's true. that said, a good (not excellent) driver can pull every bit of handling out of an NSX, and won't get so far with a Viper. Viper is a tricky car to drive, is short on creature comforts, and is not really pleasant to drive for a long time (not a daily driver). It is an able car for a very good driver. It is not easy to drive though, and if you don't really have a feel for it, it is quite unstable. You need to drive it. If you like it, and can handle it well, go for it.

ViperGTS
Geschrieben

If you will have a chance to "test drive" a Viper you will feel the difference...

However, learning to drive a Viper takes more than a "test drive"!

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

naturally it takes more than a test drive to learn how to drive a car. I still don't have my boxster down. A Viper just isn't a car everyone can enjoy driving.

For people who drive for nothing other than to just beat on their car non-stop, every stoplight, relentlessly, a viper works well. It can be a very enjoyable car for an experienced driver of that type of car. It's engineering isn't the greatest, but it is about the ends anyhow.

For 80k, you can have a better car than a dodge viper. easy as that

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

It definitely takes more than a test drive bro.. Test-Drives are clever little ways of pulling you into the trap. Of course it's not always a trap. Some cars really deserve even more. I think I'd enjoy driving a Viper though. I don't see why it would be bad to the general class of people (the average person(s)). It's fast, frugal, and foxy (that's sooooo copied). I agree that you can get much better for $80K though. Also, I'm beginning to get annoyed with the exhaust vent coming out below the doors as well. It really doesn't seem like it would be such a big problem, but now I can't stand it. It's stil a good car though. Especially theat modified version GTR or GTO or GT or whatever it was called. Now THAT was a nice Viper.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

side pipes are painful. that said the new viper is miles ahead of the old one.

ViperGTS
Geschrieben

145P5112042small.jpg

Switching to an aftermarket exhaust like CORSA or BORLA and using HF-cats and/or headers will bring the "correct" sound...

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

i agree.

samt
Geschrieben

The corvette and viper are both fine sports cars regardless of what the polarfox says. The corvette is more refined in some ways and is more comfortable. However, the viper is brute strength. I purchased a used 97 GTS and have enhanced to it about 725HP. It now runs the quarter mile in the high 10s at over 130 MPH. At the same time I also take the car to a road coarse and there are very few cars that can hang with it. The german cars can handle, but on the straight aways I blow by the cars 4 and 5 at a time. I have also seen some of the germans fly off of the track behind me while I still had grip, with street tires. If you want a used viper, I recommend finding one that is under 36 months old so that you can get an extended warranty. You will be glad you did.

However, if you buy a corvette you will not be disappointed. However, in a heads up race, a stock corvette will not run with a stock viper.

I hear all about HP per liter and how important people think that is. Well torque across the power band is what makes a car go fast, not peak HP. This is clearly seen in the viper as they are actually faster when you shift at about 4500 RPM. Contrary to what I hear from people that have obviously never driven a viper, they rev extremely fast.

I have not lost to a rice burner or german car yet.

Also, if you buy a viper or vette try nitrous and propane from BTR viper. My car makes 850 ft lb of torque at 2700RPM and I have over 150 passes on the motor.

Good luch

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

ever wonder why they run even times if you shift at 4,500 and 6,000? Viper can't breath above 4,500. The 2003 has improved this (hence a large horsepower gain - bringing its specific output into line with that of a entry level taurus). They could have an amazing car if they finished engineering it. It is like they did a half-way job on it, you can tell there is potential, but none of it is developed on -when it could be so easily. People always make fun of american cars because they never do the fine-tuning to make the car great, just slap some more cubic inches on and save some time. I had an oppurtunity to drive a C5 Z06, a '97 Viper GTS, and a 911 Carrera 2 back to back to back. Sure the viper was fast, but it didn't feel any faster than the Z06 (mostly because its not) and the Z06 was much more enjoyable to drive. Furthermore, the GTS felt like some 70s fire-breather, the Z06 felt much more like a sports car. The Carrera felt totally pinned down, every bit of driving it was completely flawless. Even though it was the slowest of the group, and felt so especially because of its smooth ride, it was by far the most fun to tool around town with. The Viper shook, made unpleasant sounds, and ran out of steam at 4,500. The Vette was still like riding a motel bed, and sounded winded above 6 grand, but the power kept up, the porsche felt completely effortless and unphased the whole way to the redline. I wish dodge would engineer their car to feel that nice.

mv
Geschrieben

i've heard st. about viper v-series which would be faster than venom800 :o ,this could make it pretty interesting...have you heard about venom1000???

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

i know the venom 1000. Unfortuneately, next to none ever got built due to hennessy's legal issues.

makara
Geschrieben
The Viper shook, made unpleasant sounds, and ran out of steam at 4,500.

Ran out of steam at 4500? You must be kidding. The hp peak is at over 5000 rpm. Maybe the car you drove had some problems.

The guy who posted earlier about shifting at 4500 must have been spraying. For a stock viper, the optimal shift points are on the other side of 5500.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

if you look at the torque curve, ther just isn't much there above 4,500. You do realize that it is making just as many horsepower at 4,500 as it is a 5,000 right? This was a '97 in excellent shape. Redline was at 5,500.

It had amazing low end, but above 5,000 it started to emit an unpleasant high pitched whining noise - similar to something I've heard out of a dodge minivan totally spooled up. I was generally unimpressed. I have heard the new viper has better top end - and no longer makes this noise (the article in motor trend introducing the new viper even does say the old one made a high pitch whine at high revs and the new one does not).

I was honestly unimpressed with the '97 i drove.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

The Viper takes the right driver to get the most out of it and to enjoy it, it's quirky, like an old 911.

If you just want to cruise or blast around town on long straights, you'll have fun and probably wont' kill yourself, I think every manufacturer makes a point to fix things a certain way so Mr. Joe Blow Average won't kill himself unless he really wants to.

It's a car you grow into if you have the patience. It wasn't an international champ for nothing.

makara
Geschrieben
if you look at the torque curve, ther just isn't much there above 4,500. You do realize that it is making just as many horsepower at 4,500 as it is a 5,000 right? This was a '97 in excellent shape. Redline was at 5,500.

It had amazing low end, but above 5,000 it started to emit an unpleasant high pitched whining noise - similar to something I've heard out of a dodge minivan totally spooled up. I was generally unimpressed. I have heard the new viper has better top end - and no longer makes this noise (the article in motor trend introducing the new viper even does say the old one made a high pitch whine at high revs and the new one does not).

I was honestly unimpressed with the '97 i drove.

I am amazed at how wrong your information is on the viper. It is almost funny. Redline is 6200 RPM. HP peak is 5200 RPM. I have no high pitch whine at higher revs. Then again, you drove a viper once and I have owned two of them. I bow down to your knowledge of all that is viper.

GIR
Geschrieben
I am amazed at how wrong your information is on the viper. It is almost funny. Redline is 6200 RPM. HP peak is 5200 RPM. I have no high pitch whine at higher revs. Then again, you drove a viper once and I have owned two of them. I bow down to your knowledge of all that is viper.

I don't know which version you are talking about but accoring to the Dodge site the Viper has it's HP peak at 5600 RPM and redlines at 6000 RPM.

What I laugh at is that you claim to be a racer but you don't know the first thing about automotive enginering. When it comes down to it you're no better then those ricer kids.

First of all any moron can drop a big engine into any car and make it go fast, the trick however is to do as much as possible with as little as possible. A 8 liter V10 pumping out a mere 500bhp and a topspeed of just 192mph is nothing to get excited about.

If you look at what BMW is doing with those tinny little engines, now that's impressive. Look what happens when BMW decides to produce a 6 liter V12, they make the worlds best, strongest and fastest engine now 10 years standing. After 10 years are others capable of an attempt to break this record. While the S73-2 is a normaly aspirated engine others need upto 4 turbo's to match it.

There are even movies on the net of a M5 leaving Viper's in dust or a Supercharged M3 outrunning Lambo's and Ferrari's. You can view them on www.racingflix.com , you'll have to register an account. Unbelievable how many Viper movies they have, guess that's because the Viper is nothing but a production line car. Unfortunatly they're all with a Viper biting on the dust of some other car. The one with the Honda Civic Turbo vs. Viper, the Viper unable to outrun the Honda and the driver of the Viper saying: "That's one fast car!" is the funniest though. Or the one with Porsche 911 vs. Viper and the Porsche pulling 3 car lenghts on the Viper is nice aswell. Maybe the Toyoya Supra Turbo vs. Viper GTS with enriched fuel and the Viper GTS biting on dust will please you?

If you've owned 2 Vipers you can surely afford an M3. For your next car I recommend you atleast take one out for a test spin. When it comes down to it a BMW can out run and out handle any other car in it's class.

If you look at the Viper there's nothing special about it, I wouldn't even consider it as a supercar. It's just your average off the line regular American car with an extremely big engine. I don't know wether you've ever driven a Ferrari or a Spyker before but I have. Now those cars truely deserve the title supercar. Not only are they fast, have powerfull engines but they also have a gimmick which sets them appart from any other car.

A Ferrari is a truely amazing machine to drive in. You can feel the flow of power through out the whole car. The feeling just can't be described, you'll have to try it for your self. Maybe call up your local Ferrari dealer and take a 360 for a spin, I'm sure you won't be as impressed with the Viper after you've driven a 360.

makara
Geschrieben

I don't know which version you are talking about but accoring to the Dodge site the Viper has it's HP peak at 5600 RPM and redlines at 6000 RPM.

What I laugh at is that you claim to be a racer but you don't know the first thing about automotive enginering. When it comes down to it you're no better then those ricer kids.

First of all any moron can drop a big engine into any car and make it go fast, the trick however is to do as much as possible with as little as possible. A 8 liter V10 pumping out a mere 500bhp and a topspeed of just 192mph is nothing to get excited about.

If you look at what BMW is doing with those tinny little engines, now that's impressive. Look what happens when BMW decides to produce a 6 liter V12, they make the worlds best, strongest and fastest engine now 10 years standing. After 10 years are others capable of an attempt to break this record. While the S73-2 is a normaly aspirated engine others need upto 4 turbo's to match it.

There are even movies on the net of a M5 leaving Viper's in dust or a Supercharged M3 outrunning Lambo's and Ferrari's. You can view them on www.racingflix.com , you'll have to register an account. Unbelievable how many Viper movies they have, guess that's because the Viper is nothing but a production line car. Unfortunatly they're all with a Viper biting on the dust of some other car. The one with the Honda Civic Turbo vs. Viper, the Viper unable to outrun the Honda and the driver of the Viper saying: "That's one fast car!" is the funniest though. Or the one with Porsche 911 vs. Viper and the Porsche pulling 3 car lenghts on the Viper is nice aswell.

If you've owned 2 Vipers you can surely afford an M3. For your next car I recommend you atleast take one out for a test spin. When it comes down to it a BMW can out run and out handle any other car in it's class.

If you look at the Viper there's nothing special about it, I wouldn't even consider it as a supercar. It's just your average off the line regular American car with an extremely big engine. I don't know wether you've ever driven a Ferrari or a Spyker before but I have. Now those cars truely deserve the title supercar. Not only are they fast, have powerfull engines but they also have a gimmick which sets them appart from any other car.

A Ferrari is a truely amazing machine to drive in. You can feel the flow of power through out the whole car. The feeling just can't be described, you'll have to try it for your self. Maybe call up your local Ferrari dealer and take a 360 for a spin, I'm sure you won't be as impressed with the Viper after you've driven a 360.

I don't even know where to start. I don't feel like typing all night so I'll be quick.

5600 sounds correct. That is what I thought I remembered the peak to be but I wanted to double check and super-cars.net said 5200. I should have trusted myself. Maybe the gen Is had a hp peak at 5200, I can't remember. The point is, they don't run out of steam above 4500 rpm.

Power per liter is pretty much pointless IMHO. That's what guys with little engines say to feel better about thier total lack of torque.

M5s leaving vipers in the dust? Surly not stock. I've raced M5s before and had no problem. I raced a modified M5 at the drag strip in my old GEN I and had no problem walking him. Sure, there might be M5s out there that can run quick but they are nowhere near stock. You can mod a lawnmower to be fast. Big deal.

Civic beating a viper? I think you mean Cheezefrog's Civic that raced Albert Shulber's (sp?) viper? Albert started a gear out of the powerband and didn't use his nitrous. Albert run the 1320 in the 9s with spray. Regardless, the civic was fast. Fast enough, dare I say, to beat a M5. Anyway, you are talking modded car vs. modded car. You really can't compare. It should be noted that the civic blew it's motor two weeks after teh video was shot. Al runs consistant 9s with his viper and has no motor problems.

911 pulling on a viper? Either it's modded or the driver was not so hot. While driving my car, a coworker told me that he did not think that his 911 turbo could keep up with the viper.

M3 outrunning anything in it's class? Perhaps, but our cars are not in the same class. Maybe a M3 would make a great daily driver but it's not my idea of a fun weekend car.

GIR
Geschrieben

I'd say register an accoutn and have a view. The M5 will out run the Viper just looking at numbers and graphs like the torque curve and weight confirms this fact.

The M3 is an impressive piece of machinery, a 73k car with just 20k of mods under it being able to out run cars which are not only more costly but also have a bigger engines is very impressive to say the least. When it comes to curves I'm sure the M3 will out maneuver any car.

I have talked to Cheezefrog and from what he told me is that he blew his turbo while making that movie. Anywayz register an account and have a look, you'll see Viper's getting beaten by Ferrari's, Lambo's, Corvette's and even BMW's.

Power per liter is pretty much pointless IMHO. That's what guys with little engines say to feel better about thier total lack of torque.

You could say that or you could say that people with big engines ignore hp/l because they just don't want to face the fact they paid money for a car which is a underperformer. hp/l is a good indicator on how well the engine is tuned and how well the car is designed. BHP is a useless figure if there was any. To get a good indication on how well a car performs you'd have to have it's gear ratio, torque curve and weight.

If I look at the numbers of the Viper I can say that it's not that impressive, the only thing is has is a big engine which makes up for it's spiked torque curve. If you'd have the same engine except smaller (lets say 4-6 liter) the car wouldn't perform.

But if look at any BMW engine, no matter if it has 2 or 8 liter, it always performs. Even though the M5 has a smaller engine it is able to beat a Viper, that alone sais enough.

It's my experience that people like you (who own a Viper) just don't want to face the fact that they have bought a bad car, even to the point where they are disillusioned.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

it comes to this, people buy vipers because they are big, badass, look, my engine is bigger image machines. Those of us who don't need our car to feel good about ourselves typically buy on technical merits, but I'm ignorant, so what do I know?

How about this, the next generation M5 will be pulling 500-550hp from a 5.5L V10, it is a midsize sedan, and every shred of information I have found says it will run even OR BETTER to sixty with the 8.3L Viper, beat it through the quarter, and take it on handling, but then again, who cares, that is just a stupid sedan from germany right? What is so impressive about it? I bet it isn't even loud.

Neanderthal man say: Me like big loud machine. ug.

You can have fun driving anything, get used to driving any car, no matter how poor control and off the fly handling is. A 911 turbo runs even to 60 with a viper, and never falls behind. Don't even attempt to persuade me that a viper handles better, i have the test numbers right in front of me.

But what good is a 911 Turbo, that is only 3.6L Six cylender, and the put the engine in the back. Must be junk. Only fools who don't know how handle real cars would buy something like that right?

Seriously, before you go around calling people ignorant, look very closely at what you yourself are saying.

makara
Geschrieben
I'd say register an accoutn and have a view. The M5 will out run the Viper just looking at numbers and graphs like the torque curve and weight confirms this fact.

The M3 is an impressive piece of machinery, a 73k car with just 20k of mods under it being able to out run cars which are not only more costly but also have a bigger engines is very impressive to say the least. When it comes to curves I'm sure the M3 will out maneuver any car.

An M5 will not outrun a viper. I see that you are from the Netherlands. I know that the euro vipers are way down on power compared to their American counterparts. Perhaps that is what you are comparing the M5 to.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

the new E60 M5 will outrun the viper.

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