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GIR

Chevrolete Silverado 2500 vs Peugot 406

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GIR
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This is a weird comparison but today I had a Peugot 406 and a Chevrolete Silverado infront of me at a trafficlight. I had a choice of getting behind the Peugot or the Chevy (I was third in line) so I thought I'll get behind the chevy cause he'll pull a cork on the Peugot. I was way way way wrong. The Silverado couldn't manage to pull a head of the Peugot even tho the chevy had a way bigger engine (yes and a heavier body). I could clearly see both drivers punching the pedal cause both cars tipped a little backwards.

So next light (I was stuck behind the chevy and the Peugot was long gone) I get next to him (Audi A4) and again the same. I could hear the chevy fighting to pull out but it just couldn't do it.

This was a huge suprise to me. Any idea's or comments?

Maybe the Chevy driver didn't know how to handle a 4x4, maybe the engine was cold or maybe it had a automatic shifter, I dunno! The Chevy wasn't loaded btw, or nothing I could see was in the truck bed.

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izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

Why, isn't the 406 a sedan? And a semi-luxury at that? If I'm thiking of the right car, then it shouldn't really be TAT surprising that the Silverado couldn't equal the 406 in performance. By the way, the Silverado is tuned more for low-gear Torque delivery than acceleration. I think you already knew that though, so I don't know what else to say.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

sure a chevy pickup has a nice engine. It is also just shy of 3 tons. Pickups aren't really that fast, powerful - for sure, and with some work, they can be fast, but from the factory, their performance is pretty average.

And for some reason, GM pickups don't go as fast as their horsepower suggests.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

I actually think that makes sense, given that they're geared towards luggin and tugging heavy loads, rather than speeding to 62MPH in 5 seconds. GM trucks are nice at what they do, and speed is definitely not their game. The dry weight of a Silverado is nothing short of astounding. Add to that the weight of the cargo, and your performance question is answered. And I do realize that GIR said it looked like it wasn't carying any load or anything, but again, remember that even with 150% of the horsepower, a truck-class Chevy will at best 'match' the performance of a car like the 406. And BTW, was it a diesel, GIR? Do you know? Better yet, does Silveradi even have diesel models (I thought they did; don't know for sure though...)? A diesel with double the Torque and 1.5 times the HP will still be outperformed by even a similar vehicle as the Silverado for example, with a Petrol instead of a diesel.

GIR
Geschrieben

The Silverado was definatly not a diesel. I don't know about he 406, when the driver of the 406 punched the pedal no black cloud (typical of diesel engines) came out the exhaust so I guess it had gasoline engine.

I'm guessing that the Slverado probably had a automatic shifter, most american cars have a automatic shifter in the standard package.

Taking in account the heavy body and that it probably was a automatic I guess it would make sense.

Also the Silverado 2500 is a 4x4 (right?), the driver just punched the pedal without getting the car rolling slowly.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

Black exhast fumes aren't necessarily "typical" of diesels.

And even if the truck had a manual 6-speed with low-to-high-end Torque accompanied by hundreds and hundreds of good old petrol Horses, that still wouldn't mean the Silverado should automatically jump forward ahead of the sedan. When push comes to shove, the Silverado is one monster vehicle...; it's a truck-class, which means the sheer size and height alone make for some tricky behaviour when the pedal hits the metal all the way. BTW does the Silverado have a Hemi in Europe?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

GM doesn't have a hemi in their line up. Hemi is a chrysler thing.

You can get a dodge ram with a 5.7L 345hp Hemi V8.

The Silverado comes with

4.3L OHV V6 - 200hp - 260ft/lb

4.8L OHV V8 275hp - 285ft/lb

5.3L OHV V8 290hp - 325ft/lb

6.0L OHV V8 300hp - 360ft/lb

8.1L OHV V8 345hp - 460 ft/lb

6.6L Diesel V8 300hp - 520ft/lbs

The 5.3L is only available with a 4spd auto. With a 6spd stick, the 8.1 will hussle the Silverado to 60 just shy of 8.

The Ford F150 comes with

4.2L OHV V6 202hp - 265ft/lb

4.6L SOHC V8 - 235hp/285ft/lb

5.4L SOHC V8 - 260hp/350ft/lb

5.4L DOHC V8 300hp/360ft/lb (*2004 model year)

6.8L SOHC V10 310hp/415ft/lb

6.0L Diesel V8 - 325hp/565ft/lb torque

The 5.4DOHC, 6.8, and 6.0 Diesel are available with 5spd auto

The 6.0L Diesel with a 6spd will run the F series in just shy of 8.

The Dodge Ram

3.9L SOHC V6 215hp/235ft/lb

4.7L SOHC V8 235hp/300ft/lb

4.7L SOHC-HO V8 265hp/325ft/lb (*2004 model year)

5.7L HEMI V8 - 345hp/365ft/lb

8.0L OHV V8 - 310hp/455 ft/lb

5.9L Diesel I6 315hp/565ft/lb

With a 6spd and Hemi 5.7, the RAM runs to 60 in just shy of 7.

All three diesels are modern. All three curb weights are staggering.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

Hmmm. I thought Dodge had the Hemis which would make sense if they got'em from daddy-GM.

Thanx for clearin' all that up. Just one question: Do you know all of that off the top of your head, Fox?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

been reading the car mags since I was little. my freinds like things with big V8s, so I need to be up on things (so I can tell them why my little european car is better - even when it isn't). I like to know how things work, i guess curiousity gets to me.

The Hemi V8 is the high tech wonder that established dodge performance in the Chrysler 300 series. Some of the best muscle cars were Hemi-V8s. I am glad they are back, and would positively be thrilled if dodge put one in a viper. I might even start to have respect for viper. The new hemi-magnum is a great engine. With a good exhuast system (flowmasters?) it would sound spine tingling.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

Funny cuz I've only been reading car mags since about a year ago. Wonder why I was never interested in cars all that much before. It's like a lost opportunity though.

Thanx for bringing up the Magnum. I absolutely love it. I think it's stunning. Wonder if Mercedes will ever do a Hemi.

Did I hear you say you would maybe have respect for Vipers? Just because of a Hemi? It changes your mind that much? Then that confuses me as to why you hate Vipers in the first place!

BTW Welcome to the club! Curiosity always gets to me too and that's how I find my self learning so much about something in such a short span of time and becoming so interested.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

if they made viper look like a reasonable car, put a good hemi engine under the hood (instead of that 10 pot vibrating bed) and begged a mercedes engineer to come over and fix some of the many ergronomical errors, they could have a hell of a car.

Mercedes probably will not do a hemi. The only hemis that have been done thus far are of pushrod design, and mercedes wants no part in that. i'm sure they could develop an OHC hemi, but that costs money, and merc already has some really nice engines.

The next generation chrysler 300 will share a good deal of suspension design with the S-Class, will be rear wheel drive, and available with a hemi.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

The Pacifica, I believe, also uses a Hemi. Tuned for about 300. Funny cuz I still keep thinking of Hemi as more of a "Dodge" thing than a "Chrysler" thing. I know Chrysler came up with it and all, but....

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

actually dude, the pacifica is a 255hp 3.5L SOHC V6.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

I'm not too sure. As I said, "I think" it uses a HEMI. I'm not saying I'm willing to bet my life on it. I just read in a newspaper that the Pacfica would use a Chrysler HEMI. Sorry.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

yeah well, no sweat. it would be cool if it did. we'll see the hemi v8 in cars soon enough anyhow. I think the next chrysler 300 could be on par to go even with the best midsizers (5 series, E Class, A6, S Type, GS, M45). It will have class leading hemi power! (350hp!!!)

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

Which "S type"? Acura? That's not really "class-leading" though. Not unless they're also planning a sport version such as MB's AMG or BMW's M, which means it would have about 500HP at least.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

S-Type. The jaguar. The acura has type S variants to models, s-type is a jaguar line.

I am not talking supertuner sedans (XJR, M5, E55, RS6, etc.) but standard V8 midsize lux.

It is slated for 365hp. and a price south of 50k.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

Hmm, I believe someone else is coming out with a 350HP+ normal variant (non-sport) of THEIR sedan which is either close/equal-to, or better than the 365HP figure you said the Jag. will have. BTW doesn't S-Type already have a normal 400HP or is that the tuned S/C version I'm thinkin'?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

no - no hold on.

Jaguar is not making a 365hp sedan. The chrysler 300N will with the hemi V8 will have 365hp and will cost under 50k. Jaguar has a supercharged and intercooled 4.2L 32V V8 good for 387hp that goes into S Type R and XKR/XJR.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

There we go. That's more like it. I know I know.

B.T.W. I think Jag. needs to cross the 400bhp barrier already. They're falling way behind the people who they're trying to compete with (MB, BMW, Audi, etc.). And the competition is always raising the bar. BMW, Audi, and Benz are all well over the 500HP mark now, and the new CL65 AMG and the Nuvolari Concept have 604HP (and the CL65 AMG has a needlessly explosive 738 foot-pounds of Torque from ~2000RPM to go with it too). What's Jaguar doing?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

while the germans are masters of the engineering of excess, tons of horsepower, heavy, big cars, overengineering things - c'mon, even though CL65 has 738 ft/lbs, it also has 5,150lbs to tow.

Jaguar is about balanced engineering, finesse, and balance. They are about style and class. I think they should have more performance for their cars, 450-500hp for the Rs, but at 3,750lbs, XJR is plenty powerful for a full size with 390hp - with a 0-60 of 5.0 with an auto. With 500hp - it would be plenty fast. Even with its german counterparts.

Drive a Jaguar and you'll see what I mean, it is more character and feeling than cold engineering.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

I never disputed the weight of the CL65. Actually from the moment I saw a picture of it I knew it was going to be a Goliath of a car. Furthermore, anyone with some degree of respectable knowledge about cars will take a quick look at the stats and quickly understand why 604 horse-power and 738 foot-pounds of torque fail to do a better job of towing the car from o to 62 miles per hour in anything better than 4.8 seconds. And the max. speed will (reportedly) be, as usual, masked by the limiter (:shrug:). As for the engineering abilities of the Germans: even I think we've really beaten this one to death. We know that, they know that, the whole world knows it, and anyone who disagrees had better choose something else to argue about or discuss, because they sure as hell won't fair well here. Jaguar is undoubtedly a sleeping beast, not un-like Maserati. They just can't seem to gather the strength (or dare) to climb past ~390 (horse-power, that is). I like the interiors of some Jags as well, and I say that because for me a car could be as good as or better than a Veyron, but if the interior doesn't suit my taste then I'll turn my back on it.

As for "...drive a Jaguar...": well, let's see, I have about $23 right now, and I think that's just shy of what a Jag. costs! So I'll wait a while on that. I could probably pay with a credit card as certain idiotic people would advise me to, but I'd rather dive off a cliff with my ass on fire, than pay 62.5% interest. I'll save and pay it all at once when I can, thank you. So the "drive a Jaguar" thing is a bit sketchy, Fox, but hopefully I'll get there soon, and finally know what it's like to DRIVE a Jag., and not just take a ride in one.

- ...out

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

I'm sure you can find someone with a jaguar who would love to let you drive it :wink:

And I think the point i was trying to make is that maybe 390 horsepower is more than enough to make a car go fast. Just because it doesn't have 600hp, doesn't mean it can't be plenty fast. There is more than power to a car. Look at lotus.

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