911 V8

[thepolarfoxqx]

Porsche said they will put Cayanne's 4.5L V8 into the next gen 911 - still rear mounted. Think about the weight gain here. Not only that, all the weight goes to the heavy tail. What are they thinking?

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Hallo thepolarfoxqx,

 

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[Seb2]

I think this is only a race engine. For maby a new GT3 to beat BMW. Non charged engine.

But think if there was a B8/V8 whatever in one 911 and B6 i think everyone would choose the 8 cylinder. I think 3.8l like most of the race 911 has now is alot on a 6 cylinder engine. 2 more cylinders would maby be a smart choice. A Audi RS6/RS8, BMW M3/M5 i hope will never beat a 911 at leat the turbocharged model.

[thepolarfoxqx]

I have read reports of a the 4.5L V8 (designed for Cayanne) being fitted into a 911 chasis. The 4.5L is over 150lbs. (68kilos) heavier than the turbocharged H6 (F6). Now that would further weight bias the rear end. As powerful as the computerized skid control is, it would have to apply more braking, remove more power, and have more to transfer to keep the back end in check. In turbocharged form, this engine is deignated to put out 500hp. Now, assuming a 150lb. increase in weight (from the 4.5L), the 911 would now weigh approximately 3,450lbs - to 500 hp - that is 6.9 lbs p/hp. Assuming the new M5 puts out 550hp (the optimistic number - though very possible) - and it weights 3700lbs (target weight) - that is 6.73lbs/hp - the rear weight bias of the 911 turbo would naturally help it in off the line (my means of enhanced traction) - also - if it were AWD equipped (highly likely) that would further enhance traction. But once they were moving - the numbers say that the M5 could keep even (perhaps even take an advantage). But when the 911 hits the curves, no amount of help from stability control and awd can completely correct its obscene weight bias (it would actually calculate -assuming they made no other changes - 74-26. Does anyone remember the 930 series 911s of the late 70s and 80s - turn off the stability control - and that is what you get! There is no way the 911 with the extra tail weight could keep up with the perfectly balanced M5 (49.6:50.4) (the RS6 is 63/37 distrobution - therefore would understeer - the E55 is actually pretty balanced 54:46 - but will likely be tuned more for comfort than sport) through the curves - the current M5 already has a higher slalom speed than the 911 turbo - so imagine you add 150lbs to the tail of the 911 - and then take the new suspension geometry of the BMW - which acutally puts more pressure on the tires in cornering (I hope they spare us that continental junk and put something decent like Pirelli PZeros on there) should corner better than it does now.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Porsche has confirmed that a V8 will become the standard engine for the 911, and it will remain rear mounted. Nautally Aspirated - in current form - this engine is good for 340hp, turbocharged, it is good for 450 (though 500 is no stretch). What they have not said is how they intend to compensate for the extra weight in the tail (perhaps move the transmission further forward - sorta like a backwards corvette C5 (C5 has a rear mounted transaxle)?

Anyhow, after 30 years with flat sixes, porsche is placing a V8 into 911 - as if making Cayanne weren't bad enough.

[Seb2]

Having hard to belive Porsche would to anything thats bad to the 911. About V8 and B6 i dont know about weight. Like the M3 and M5. The M5 engine is alu i think both engines has about the same Weight.

[thepolarfoxqx]

The block on the M3 is cast iron. Yes, both engines are aluminum (V8 and H6) but by virtue of the flat design having a more compact crankcase, and having 2 more cylenders on it - it would logically gain weight - like why BMW is considdering Magnesium Alloy for the M5 engine - Porsche has likely got some pretty bright plan figured out - it just doesn' seam like a 911 without an air cooled H6 (not that they are even air cooled anymore). There was talk of a center engine 911 (V8 weight), but they decided rear, so I guess they have got something up their sleeve - I just don't see how it could handle as well as the current one - or even a more balanced car.

[imported_Corey]

I agree fox. If they do make the change to an eight, it will grossly unbalance the car. For years, 911's have been one of the premier handling cars in the world. Suddenly, you have a car that has a possibility of handling like a Hummer! I mean, how can they possibly make up for that kind of an imbalance? I think that they are making a big mistake here. They need to leave the formula alone!

[thepolarfoxqx]

it is very simple.

The way it is, the porsche 911 turbos engine unit is sufficently heavy that to drive it hard easily - the stability control must be on. With it off - it is considderibly more difficult to drive the porshce very hard without loosing stability.

With a V8 (much much much heavier) - and the higher polar center of gravity afforded by a V8 - the electronic nanny will have to do a hell of a lot more to keep the car stable when driven hard. It will lower the limits on handling. Not cool. If you turn of the PSC - you will find a car that is more than happy to put itself tail first as soon as you test its handling.

Anyone remember driving the Ferrari 348? A car with amazing limts - but one that was nearly impossible to drive to that point. I fear the 911 is going there.

Do we need a V8? Who calls a 911 turbo underpowered?

[imported_Corey]

And to be quite honest, I don't think that the first eights out, will be beasts. I am sure that the current configured Turbo will still out perform. Then they will wait until the complaints roll in, and up the power. Like I said before... No reason to mess with a good thing. Porsche set the standard of getting incredible power out of a small powerplant... And kept them fairly reliable. Can any of the other exotic companies really say that? That would just add another reason to buy older cars for me.

Just curious about something a bit off topic... Has anyone seen the weight distribition numbers on the GT. I am pretty sure it is a bit out of whack in itself.

[thepolarfoxqx]

36:64 is the number i keep seeing.

It would be severely worse if not for GT being central engine.

I suspect 911 V8 Turbo may break the 30:70 barrier.

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[Nitrous_Oxide]

I think the porsche enginers know more than us.I think they have worked out the weight issue.Whatever happens the important thing is that porsche stays as good handling as ever.

[thepolarfoxqx]

all of the best manufacturers have had follies, after the new cayanne, I am starting to question porshce (and the influence VW has over them). The 911GT is undoubtably awsome, but I don't know about changing tradition so much as a V8 in a 911

[GoalieKid 35]

I'm a huge Porsche fanatic. I think that if they will put a V-8 in the 911 Turbo, it will never be considered a true Porsche. I kind of wonder about the Carrera GT being a true Porsche (it has a V-10). Maybe if it had a flat-10, then it would definitely be a true Porsche. The 917s of the early 70s had flat-12s, so extra cylinders won't make a difference to me as long as the engine is flat (except the only engine I'd accept in a 911 Turbo is F-6 because that's all it's ever had). I hope I explained that clearly enough. Once again, a V-8 in a Turbo...................

[beano_ii]

Porsche 911 V8...Porsche Cayenne SUV...what is going on? I think Porsche is in serious danger here. They are already getting flak from purists over the Cayenne (placing an SUV in a traditionally sports car lineup), and now this (placing a V8 in a traditionally F-6 platform). This will be a real test of Porsche's strength as a company, although with VW watching over, they will weather the storm. They will alienate the older generation with these models, and less sporty vehicles will not draw in the younger crowd either. Oh well, I love Porsche and hope they have the whole mess straightened out by the time I can afford one.

[Bullstaff]

Who knows? Maby adding the V-8 might actually improve the 911's F/R weight ratio.

Porsche could choose to follow an example set by the Domestic car company Chevrolet .

Chevrolet has cut the weight of the smallblock castiron engine by a whopping 100 Lbs by replacing the castiron block with aluminum bringing the weight down from 490 Lbs for a fully dressed engine with heads and intake to 390 Lbs.

If Im correct, the standard non turbo 911 engine weighs around 410 Lbs add a turbo or two and the weight will jump significantly.

Now take the new Chevrolet engine, add lightweight pistons & rods, shave the crankshaft, add magnesium heads & carbonfiber intake, then have the engine internally ballanced, just like F-1 cars, so as to eliminate the harmonic balancer. With these additions, or should I say subtractions, the weight should drop another 40 to 50 Lbs bringing the weight to around 350 Lbs.

And what does that last paragraph have to do with Porsche???? Everything, Porsche could do to their new V-8 what Chevrolet did for theirs plus a whole lot more.

[GoalieKid 35]

Who cares about F/R weight distribution when you're ruining the classic Porsche? What is wrong with these people, how could they even consider doing this? It just pisses me off.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Probably cost cutting and increasing profit. Does anyone remember how 928 was going to replace 911? How about when they made the engine water cooled? If they moved it to a V8, they could share powerplants with Cayanne - and any other front engine porsches to come. I suspect the new V8 is cheaper to manufacture. Hell, porsche makes an SUV on a platform shared with VW, what would stop them from V8ing the 911?

[thepolarfoxqx]

Hey, I heard rumors of a new front engine V8 sports car from Porsche to fill the void between 911 and Boxster (the V8 911 will be more expensive than current ones). Anyone have any thoughts?

[Xcellere]

^^^That would be amazing, especially in the GT2.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Well a 928 was cool, will this be succesful though?

[Toyjet]

Looks like I have beaten Porsche to the punch!

Check out my all alluminum Supercharged LS1 V8 porsche 911.

My engine is 75 pounds lighter than the stock Porsche 3.0L motor.

See my car at: www.toy-jet.ls1fun.com

See my rear radiator system at: www.toyjet.com

[thepolarfoxqx]

that radiator has to be the most hideous thing i have ever seen done to a porsche since the first spy shots of cayanne.

I hope when porshce does it, it is a little more "subtle"

[bleh]

toyjet... your car is outtta control. i love the idea, and i have to admit im jealous. sick sick ride man.

[thepolarfoxqx]

it is like nothing else, that is for sure. I cannot imagine how a porsche 911 with a small block v8 must drive. Certainly unique.

The radiator gets points for being ingenuitive, but not for style.

[djfux69]

yeah its not very good lookin but i mean it gets the job done... keep it up