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Whose is the best full size luxo sport sedan?  

  1. 1. Whose is the best full size luxo sport sedan?

    • BMW 7 Series - manufacturing irregularities are the price of the amazing driveline and chasis?
    • Mercedes Benz S Class - Ultimate Luxury, ultimate class, ultimate quality, Mercedes - too bad it isn't exciting
    • Audi A8 - Aluminum Space Frame - Quattro AWD - BMW challenging chasis and performance - jack of all trades - master of none
    • Volkswagen Phaeton - Giant VW logo, 85k+ price, 5,200lbs, looks like a vegas casino inside - what else could you want?
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    • Jaguar XJ: Supremely Sporty british blown power, supremely classy, ultimately luxurious, typical british quirky, but on a small and aging platform
    • Lexus LS430: Quiet, Smooth, Luxurious, Reliable, unoffensive, too bad it is as bland as a camry
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    • Cadillac DeVille: Big, Distinctive, High-Tech, Cheap to buy and own, oh yeah, it is front wheel drive and huge - and says "I'm senile"
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Audi - (hey, you know that is an acronym just like BMW - cool huh?), announced its plans for the next generation A8 - set to debut in 2004. To dispell earlier rumors (some of which I helped propigate), the new A8 will not ride on the Phaeton Plaform. It has an aluminum space frame. It will looks similar to the A8 now, but sleeker, wider, lower, and harer edged. Set to weigh 3900lbs and to have 4.2L 5V V8s from 330-380hp and of course the W12 at 420hp - and RS8 with 600hp :o . It is going to try to challenge to 7 series for gadget power, and will have a traditional 5 seat layout (not the phaeton's 4). A fully computer controlled air suspension is also set to debut. This should help shore up its BMW beater handling, and of course the advanced Quattro AWD. VW's new 6 speed auto will also grace the A8. No word on whether or not direct injection will make it into any engines - don't keep your hopes too high. Also - electric steering may just debut.

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The XJ i think is more of a BMW 5series. The A8 is that the W12 you mean?. Theres already pic out of the new A8 looks wonderful. The next RS8 will be the ultimate luxo car or maby the new S600 with maybach engine.

I think all these cars are to big. You get what you need in a E-class for example no need for S. Anyway Mercedes got my vote.

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Jaguar has S-Type for 5 Series and E Class, XJ is paired to S Class and 7 Series. The New S60 with maybach power may be king supreme. RS8 is definately awsome, and if BMW gets the manufacturing irregularities worked out, then an M7 might be king of the road. If you think 5 series is enough, keep in mind, 5 series has as much rear leg room as a honda civic. If you haul 4 six footers around regularly, or are into bigger cars, that is why midsize sell better than full size. To some, it might be a status symbol. I can hardly wait for MB to start on its new engines (4v dohc variants of the current 3v SOHC).

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  • 7 Monate später...

I believe Audi is already into 5V/Cyl. DOHCs. Mercedes's 36-valve V12s are excellent performers with huge reserves of Torque and massive HorsePower. The improvements would be welcome. I hope the start pushing towards 600HP with their V12s. Brabus already made a 630HP version of a V12 Merc engine. The new technology better have power improvements (at least relative to the improvements). If not then what's the point? :(

Isn't there also a cadillac "SeVille"?

Anyways I'd go for a 7 series. Can't beat'em. They're amazing. Maybe a 750H. How good would an "H" M7 be? :D

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Yeah, caddy makes a Seville, but it is in the same size class with 5 series.

The 7 series is nice. I-Drive bugs most people, and quality control has been about the worst ever out of BMW, but the basic design is awsome, it is a good drive line. I myself would take a 2004 Jaguar XJR, the same 6 speed auto out of 7 series, but at 3,600lbs, it is 1,000lbs lighter than 760, it has a 400hp supercharged 4.2L 32V V8, and 0-60s at sub 5. Handling is, as always, a jaguar hallmark, and it has style and class that is all its own. Since this motor has a helical supercharger, no supercharger whine either.

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I think I-Drive and what-not are pretty revolutionary; they just need more work. I wouldn't buy the BMW 7 (that debuted the technology) either. I don't know what your beef with the quality control is, but I'm interested in finding out what you have to say about it.

Umm, as far as Jags go, to be honest I wouldn't substitute a Bimmer for anything. I'd go for the 7 Series any day. Also, the Jag somehow doesn't feel like it's got 400HP. Don't get me wrong - it's fast! But it's still curiously slow for a 400HP car. I don't know what the deal is, there. Of course the handling is tops. We have XJs and other Jags as Police cars here. They look amazing.

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You konw, my love will alwyas be with the 7 series, always has and alwasy will be, but there is just somthing about hte S class, it has always been so technilogically advanced, even more so than tha 7, and audi. I don tkonw, but they seem to really be 5 years ahead of hte game at all times.

But you konw what, as sexy as the 7 is, and as sexy as the new S will be, nothing, i mean nothing looks even close to how sexy the new Audi A8 is, om gi saw it at hte LA auto show....wow me and my dad were drooling, he was so about to buy one, if not hte great deal we got on our nicely modded Excursion!!! lol

But i say the maybach blows them all awy in luxary!!!

WHy bently and rolls were mentioned...haha i know, they are POS on wheels....so over priced, and so under rooted!!!

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I agree that the Mercedes-Benz S class has always been very technologically advanced. And maybe slightly more so than the BMW 7 series and the Audi 8 series as well. But I don't know about them being "5 years ahead of the game".

Wait for the 2008/2009 S8, you'll love'em.

I think the Mayback is in a totally different class of Luxury than the aforementioned large sedans. The Maybach in in the same ultra-luxury class as Bentleys and Rolls-Royces and etc.. You seem to love the Maybach a bit too much though. I don't know, it looks pretty good and it's features are very luxury indeed and it's got amazing power and all, but the rear looks a tad bit extra-terrestrial for a classic-style ultra-luxury automobile.

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  • 2 Wochen später...
:-? What're you kidding? Audi DEFINITELY have a road-map for up to 2010, if not beyond that. And I've seen sneak preview Audis and sketches of future Audis for 2008+. That's why I even mentioned that.
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No but that has almost nothing to do with them. For one thing Audi are known to be a company that's thinking waay too far ahead. That being said I'm not 100% sure they have all the models and ranges and whatever else drawn out and ready for 2010. However, I do know that they have their 2008 models in the pipelines already. As for the Z4, to be honest they've had it planned ever since the Z3 came out, only it wasn't to become the Z4. The design though is almost completely new.

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audi seems to have a complete design revolution once every, say 8 years. BMW, mercedes, porsche, jaguar, even ferrari follow the same basic desing principles. If i showed you a 3 series from 10 years ago and a 3 series today, you'd easily know they were the same, ditto a 911, or an XJ. If I showed you an A6 and then an audi A6 a decade back, they look very much different, only similar in the 4 hooped grille. They are wonderfully styled cars, but their design philosophy changes so often, it seems hard for them to plan sooo far ahead.

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That's where you're wrong. You pretty much answered your own question! It's BECAUSE they plan so far ahead that they usually have designs popping out by the minute. They're related. For example, it's their rapid change in styling that makes next decade's AUDI look so different from the current one. They're constantly changing designs and coming up with new ones, which means by the time next decade's Audi is about to be produced it looks more different than you would expect it to.

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  • 3 Wochen später...

Well, they kind'a do. I think their new designs are most of the time fairly true to their origins, or at least similar enough to their previous incarnations. The last A8, A6, and A4s all look more or less similar to the current ones. They only look modified (most often for the better, I think) to look more modern (or something like that). BMW on the other hand doesn't seem to know what it's doing in the design room anymore; the 7 series shocked everyone, and really WAS a whole lot different from what it used to be, and the upcoming 3 series is fairly different and radicalized as well. But worst of all is the 5-series, where the clean looks have been messed with and the lights are stretched so far they make me mistake them for try-hard Japanese cars. It's sad really, but on the other hand the engineering work and overall advancements made to newer BMWs are amazing (shocking, almost). So much that in fact looks become a far smaller playing factor in people's taste-buds agreeing with BMW-designers'. Saabs are still very similar to their ancestors, though it's mostly because of that eerily familiar front grill, which makes anything carrying it look like a Saab. Jaguar is British, and you really can't even expect them to thoroughly "update" the looks of their cars too much, because they know that one of the major things that makes Jags what they are are the image and the ties and roots reaching back to the classics. And I can't really nag on Porsche for changing their looks. You're right on with Porsche: you would never mistake a Porsche. Then again it's painful sometimes, and Porsche takes eons to update looks of their cars. And most of the time when they do it's all minor facelifts. Then again with 911s and other famous Porsches being the pure driving machines they are, that all becomes irrelevant.

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BMW designs are always critized when they come out. I think bangle needs to be shot.

What was needed was the old bmw style with a LITTLE bangle injected, not a whole lot of bangle with a little BMW injected.

Just the same, it is still a BMW.

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  • 2 Wochen später...

Give it a few months. People will get used to the new BMWs (I'm beginning to get used to the new 5's looks). They'll always be loved after a while. The start is always controversial though. That's BMW for ya!

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i am about to mastermind a kid-napping plan for bangle. who wants in? :D:D:D

I am not sure I really like where they are taking it. I might get used to it, if nothing else, the good ones from now (before the great banglese invasion) will become classics.

They may just loose themselves sales to merc and audi over this too.

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I'm in. No seriously. Count me in!

I think Americans sometimes intentionally ruin European car designs and pretend like they're proud of what they've done. I can only hope the likes of Bangle don't make European designs take a "Japamation" turn for the worse. It goes without saying that all sane people (excluding those in Eastern Asia) would be appaulled to see a future 3 series that looks like a bloody Civic. Don't you agree?

Anyway BMW have already lost a big slice of the market-pie to Audi and MB. Not exactly BMW's fault though; you gotta hand it to the other 2 for trying so hard to catch up to BMW (especially Audi). The shadows are finally catching up....

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BMW's next line will strike back with force. The A8 and S class are better than they've ever been, and will be bigger competition than ever. I must question the styling. The engineering is the best its ever been, and is world class, the styling is junk.

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I don't know about that. Junk? No no no. Sorry, but I've grown to love the 7. The styling is more, umm, "futuristic" (yes, that'll do...). I'd go with a 7 (BMW) any day, over an 8 (Audi) or an S (Mercedes-Benz). That's one of the best BMW's ever, end of story. But if you still think the styling is "controversial", then wait for the next of every BMW model, and I can almost guarantee you'll think the 7 looks normal (not counting the next 3 series). The styling on the BMW is better than the "bar-of-soap" styling on the Audi, or the "look-at-me-I'm-your-average-Benz" styling on the Mercedes. Well maybe I'm bashing it too much but I'd still take the sweet-ass 7 over the competition. Now I'm waiting to see how the Quatroporte will do. The BMW 7 (at least the front, anyway) is more like the 2003 3-series styling than any other new car due to be released by BMW in the near-future. Could everyone stop bashing the 7 already? Besides, drive one and I'm sure you'll like everything about it (well, exclusing i-Drive, probably). I've been in an S-class, and I can guarantee the ride alone is crashier than pretty much any BMW. And I don't like the styling much either. Of course I can't bash other things about the Audi 8 because I've honestly never even been closer than 7 feet to an Audi A8.

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An A8 has a tightly sprung down sporty ride, like the last 7 series. The next A8 gets the same 6spd auto as the 7 series. That said, Bimmer's 325hp 4.5L V8 is definately a superior engine to the 310/340hp 40V 4.2L Audi V8. The S class is a big limo style car. The next three isn't as extreme as I expected (not as bad as the 5). BMW styling has always been somewhat edgy and avante garde, working with errant disregaurd to what people thought, and its always caught. This time they may have pushed it too far. I think Audi calls their styling "Modern Bauhaus" - not soapbar. I'll have to agree with their description. Mercedes is going for classic classy.

You keep counting out the 2004 Jaguar XJ as a contender. It's all aluminum structure gives it a curb weight of 3,700lbs, lighter by far than any other car in its class, its 4.2L 300hp naturally aspirated and 4.2L 390hp Supercharged engines push the lightweight big sedan to sixty in 6.2 and 5.0 seconds respectively. Not bad. The only car in class that can touch the 5.0 second 0-60 run is the S600/S55 - which are both over $30,000 more. Luxury is, as expected from a british car, fancy, classy, and somewhat ostentatious. Lots of wood and yards of soft connolly leather.

The 2004 A8 will have a new structure as well as retuned engines, suspension, and a new autobox. It will be another good contender.

Both of these are modern looking, yet non-controversial cars.

Believe it or not, I think for once, The jaguar has better interior controls than a BMW. That is scary. I-Drive+Bangle = :evil:

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