M5 5.5L V10 Twin Turbo?

[scottiedavies]

I heard from a friend of a friend who heard something from someone that a V10, 5.5L M5 was in the making. I've read on your forum that is locked that something is in development but is it 5.5 litres and twin turbo?

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Hallo scottiedavies,

 

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[Seb2]

Twin Turbo no way. V10 has been known for a long time.

[Spot]

The 2004 M5 will have a 5.5L V10 making at least 500HP according to BMW. They also might make it available in a wagon form. But no Twin Turbos

[scottiedavies]

while not being a huge internet user i can find my way around, but is there any official word from bmw that i could read about the 2004 m5. where do i find that information? Any help would be appeciated.

[Seb2]

Dont think theres any official word about it yet.

[Shaunt]

scott, here you go:

http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/news.htm

Seb my man , I can't seem to open it, but on Supercars.net, there is an article which states that the M5 will have 550 bhp, .

But guess what?

It states that the Audi RS8 will have 600+ bhp, .

These luxury cars are turning into sport cars, .

[imported_M]

I heard that BMW will offer their SMG transmissionin the 2004 M5. I think that's a good move for the Blue and white propeller.

[scottiedavies]

Looking at different web sites, some are saying the new M5 will produce 500 bhp. Others are saying 550 bhp. Any ideas? Whatever the power, lets just hope they just keep the weight down. Otherwise it'll be a pointless improvement in power.

[thepolarfoxqx]

The new 5.5L V10 has many of the innovations integrated into the valvetronic 6.0L V12, as such, there will be no throttle bore, the valve timing will be varied instead (electric motor smooth responsiveness). This new engine - so an engineer freind of mine in Munich says will use Gasoline Direct Injection. The horsepower peak is said to be at approximately 7000rpms and torque is peaking around 4000. It is a high winding engine, and best of all it gives that amazing responsiveness no turbo or supercharged engine can match (yeah i am talking about you Audi and MB). Also, curb weight target is under 3700 in standard manual form and under 3750 in SMG (yeah, did you here, that is going to be an option (the SMG will debut 3-6months after the M5). Also, it is said that the engine uses an under square bore/stroke. So lets recap:

550hp nat. asp at 7000

480ftlb (est.) at 4000

3,700lbs

Rear wheel drive through 6 sp and complex helical differential

3.68:1 rear axle ratio

Lbs/Hp 6.77

Lbs/Hp in a Dodge Viper: 6.8 (0-60 time - traction limited is 3.8 sec. best run)

which would lead me to believe with a comlex traction system, and that power/weight, the new M5 should be keeping the 0-60 under 4 - which no overweight RS6 or RS6 - burdened with the drag of all wheel drive and an automatic could never match.

[thepolarfoxqx]

what has happened, I remember when the M5 was a 3.5L inline six with 315hp (how is that for specific output in 1990) and the fastest audi could throw was a 2.8L 100CS, now you have the 450hp 4.2L twin turbo RS6 (also burdedened with the drag and weight of a 5sp auto and awd) which makes megatons of mid-level torque (enough to spin all four wheels pretty well if all of the high tech stuff gets shut off), the E55 is just violent - with a reported 492hp from a high output lyshom supercharged 5.5L DOHC V8 - 5 speed auto (MB is soon to unviel a 6SP auto - I hope it is more efficent than that ZF junk) and of course, torque down low, 550+ ft. lbs. worth, enough to turn the 1500 dollars worth of rubber on the rear tires into mush in 2 seconds flat. I am weary of anything that makes more torque than a tractor trailer down low and only weighs 3700lbs. Both the force fed MB and Audi look at 0-60 in the low 4s. Then comes the champ. A reported 550hp from a very highly tuned v10, a true 6sp (a SMG to come), sprint rear axle ratio, and of course the BMW propeller on the hood. I am supremely confident BMW has nothing to fear from the super VW and the Daimler CHRYSLER creation. With a power/weight ration to beat a dodge viper and the great balance of a BMW, this may very well be the top performing street car ever.

Oh, wait, scratch that - I here it has I-Drive

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Hallo scottiedavies,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema BMW M (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[scottiedavies]

SMG, is that Sequential M Gearbox? Meaning no clutch with paddles on the stering wheel. So if that is coming out a few months after release of the M5, what will it have in the meantime. Current M5's are manual, will the next generation be manual before release of SMG?

[thepolarfoxqx]

The M5 will have the same 6 speed manual as the current version as a standard transmission. A few months later a Sequentially Manual Transsmission (similar to the one in the M3) will be available (clutchless paddle shifter). This transmission if being offered to widen the market for the M5 to include people who don't like standard manual transmissions.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Hey, I read yesterday that BMW is possibly to use a magnesium alllow block/head/intake system to save weight (V10 being heavier than the V8 - which is already pretty heavy) - that would be the first time a production car used magnesium. Pretty amazing stuff.

[Seb2]

Wow im very impressed. Magnesium is so hard working with. Like i was looking at a guy working on Magnesium Wheels. There are so few people that realy can handle it good.

[thepolarfoxqx]

I suspect hey will use some sort of alloy involving some aluminum to soften up the mix (magnesium is extremely stiff), but the weight savings are huger. VW 6.0 W12 has magnesium intakes.

I wonder if magnesium hits production, that would be really cool (though probably expensive)

[scottiedavies]

so in reading all of this, the new m5 will have heaps more power, less weight, and will basically be a rocket ship.

awesome

[thepolarfoxqx]

Well, BMW has the following to contend with:

A 493 HP Supercharged E55

A 450 HP Twin Turbo AWD RS6

The new M5 will likely be a extremely high tech car - like the 745, but it will be much lighter too (target weight of less than 3,700lbs - the current one is nearly 3,900 lbs). The E55 is projected to be a 3,850lb car, and the RS6's released curb weight is 4,050 lbs. Also, the new V10 is going to be nothing less than the most sophisticated engine in a production car ever - projected at at least 500hp - as much as 550hp - and will come with the option for the SMG system debuted on the M3. If this comes half way to its promises, it will be the premier european sports sedan, in fact it should shame a good deal of todays best sports car - being that at 3,700lbs with 550 hp, it will have a better power to weight ratio than a Dodge Viper, Corvette Z06, and Porsche 911 turbo. Can you imagine passing a Corvette Z06 in your decadently comfortable german luxo sedan with 3 of your freinds along with you? Better yet, can you imagine the look on the Z06 Driver's face?

M5 will retake its position as premier rocket sled. Now it is a matter of waiting, saving, and camping out outside your Bimmer dealer to get your name on the list first.

[Seb2]

This is why Ferrari, Porsche and other brands getting new engines. Theres noway a sedan car should pass a real sportcar. I dont realy see any real way using this car on other places the on races. In Germany someone could if he wanted to drive 300km/h on the autobahn but why?.

[thepolarfoxqx]

The M5 has been, and will even more so be a sports car. A few years back, Motor Trend Magazine did the following comparison test: Corvette C5, Acura NSX, Porsche 911 Turbo, and BMW M5, and their conclusion, all factors considdered, M5 was the best. Only the 911 turbo beat it to 60, it was the fastest through the slalom, and had the second lowest price of admission. Yes, Porsche and Ferrari are getting new engines (porsche the 4.5L V8 - 500hp in twin turbo form), and Ferrari is getting a 4.2L (450hp), but you have to look at what BMW has - a car that runs through the slalom at just shy of 70mph, accelerates to 60 mid fours (even faster with less weight and the V10), can beat a Corvette and Viper around the track, costs less than many sports cars, and seats 5. With 550hp and 3700lbs, it is faster on paper than a viper - 911 turbo (in fact, if you assume that 911 turbo gains 75lbs getting a V8, it would weigh 3,600lbs, 500hp, Porsche - 7.2lbs/hp, M5 6.7lbs/hp. M5 is still faster). You call it a sedan, while it has 4 doors, if you looked at its perfromance numbers - not knowing what an M5 is, you would have no doubt it is a sports car. Just because a car has only 2 doors and is small doesn't make it a sports car. There are not many cars within 30 grand of M5 that can out perform it. None of those cars seat 5. Magic. What happens when it sheds 150+ lbs and gains 150hp? None of the "sports cars" which it competes against have such a gain. - advantage BMW.

Anyhow, sure, they won't use M5 for racing, but does that really matter. If you go to buy a car - does it matter if someone uses that car all souped up to race. It matters what the car you drive off the lot is. People race Ford Focuses in Rally races - does that make it better than an M5?

[millm3]

I expect the new M5 to be the sportiest Sedan ever produced, maybe this time they will build a Touring also. I guess there are now enough people interested in such a model. The V10 engine is one nice piece of machinery , can't wait to see the details.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Well, here are a few new things the boys in Munchen have leaked confirmation on.

I: A station wagon (estate, touring, avant - whatever you call it) will debut for the 2005 model year for the M5 - those sick minded ones of you who lavish the idea of beating a corvette (better lb/hp than LS1 or LS6), ferrari (better power to weight than F360, F456), porsche (better hp/l than carrera or turbo - though beating AWD turbo is a stretch), or viper (better lb/hp - but a stretch as well) in a drag race in your station wagon packed full of family and freinds - have fun.

II: A SMG will option with the 6 speed Getrag tranny - the same system that is used in the M3, no automatic will be offered. Period. The SMG has an auto mode, so you stick-phobics can too now enjoy M5.

III: The engine will produce at least 550hp Yes - Five Hundred and Fifty - Don't expect a torque number in the 500s though. No word yet on whether or not it will be magnesium block. The word on head material either (expect aluminum though). A full resonance intake manifold similar to that employed on the M3's 3.2 is also going to find its way in. Expect this V10 to feel a lot like a bigger version of the 3.2. A flat torque curve and a power peak and redline north of 7,000.

IV: Lots of aluminum will be employed in the suspension and body panels. This is a weight saving measure - so as to undercut the overweight RS6 and find an advantage over the relatively lean E55 K. Also, even interior materials are going to be used in weight saving. Word is that special foam will be employed for the seats and insulations. I wouldn't be suprised to see some sort of weight saving glass used either.

The Automatic transmissioned MB SL55 with the same engine that will go into E55 and a 4,300lb curb weight hustled to 60 in 4.3 seconds - beating out a BMW Z8, Ferrari F360, and Aston Martin DB7 Volante in a major magazine comparison. Imagine what type of times could be turned out by a car with 57 more hp and a kansas flat torque curve that never stops - that is also 600lbs lighter - with a 6 speed manual no less.

[scottiedavies]

What is the price of the new M5 going to be? With BMW saying they will do a 5 series bi turbo with 380bhp and "near current M5 performance" that suggests to me that the E60 M5 will be priced a little higher than the current car. I think the std E60 will have some weight reduction technology in it, but how much further will they go with the M5

[thepolarfoxqx]

The word on the biturbo inline six is very sketchy. they say there is a possiblity, but the current 4.4L Makes 325hp - that could easily be tuned higher to fit that without the development of a turbo. No word on M5 pricing - but expect it hover just shy of six figures. It would be illogical for BMW to have :

A 3.0L 225hp Valvetronic as the base

A 3.5L (to be introduced either for 2004 or 2005) 270hp Inline six (as a middle model)

A 4.4L 330hp V8 Valvetronic

A 3.5L Bi-turbo Inline six at 380hp (why have a six above an eight?) or a 370hp 4.6L V8 (an uprgraded version of what is in X5 4.6is)

and then of course 550hp M5.

Weight reduction is extensive throughout the line. Expect tons of aluminum on suspension and body components. Even interior materials are said to be specially selected for weight.

On M5 it goes even further - there has even been word of a magnesium engine block.

There is always possibility of a twin turbo - but BMW has never used turbochargers - they used a supercharger on the E30 M3, but have never been into turbos. I have heard rumors of twin turbo V8 and I6 models - always hovering around 380hp. While an engine in the performance range would be of great asset, BMW has not had to resort to forced induction since the M3 E30 (they could have used a tuned 2.5L I6, but the S/C I4 was chosen for weight concerns). I could definately see them using a higher tuned 4.4 or 4.6 engine in the 360-400hp range - just not one with a turbo.

[scottiedavies]

when will the new 5 series and the M5 debut? Will they show it at the paris autoshow?

[thepolarfoxqx]

Well, there is a lot of speculation as to when the 2004 5 series and 2004/2005 M5(depends where you are, word is not out an exactly who gets what when) will debut. There are a world of possibilities. Geneva being one of them. BMW historically has been partial to this show, though there is also a great possibility of Paris as well. I will pass along any word i get, anyone else know when/where 5 series will debut?