M5 to have 507hp and 520NM

[Dresol]

Try to be funny just because BMW leaves behind?!

However, have you tried a Mercedes so strong that the chassie can't handle it? What model was that?

I'm sure they try them extremely much before they let the go out in production. 500 or even 600 is nothing. I've sat in a Escort Cosworth that was tuned to have 450 hp on the wheels! That chassie could even handle it!

If you saw 5th Gears test of the CL65 AMG, Tiff said that the torque and power of the engine, was so strong and so ruff, that the chassis would twist and turn every time you give the car som stick. Mercedes shouldn't have given their cars so much power, cause it'll be harder and harder to overdue it.

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo mv,

 

kennst du schon M5 to have 507hp and 520NM (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

BMW M Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | BMW M Zubehör (Anzeige)

[mv]

Does anyone here think that the M6 will pack even more punch? I'm thinking that, at least for simplification of production, the M6 engine will be tuned the same as it is in the M5.

You've got a point....but i would find it strange though...530-550 is the range I'm hoping to see.

[Thunf]

dresdol:

ah, that car! Then I understand!

[Thunf]

You naughty boy ...

And maybe Mercedes should do just as BMW does: Give their cars a huge amount of powers, so much that the clutch can't handle it, just for show...

[Dresol]

And maybe Mercedes should do just as BMW does: Give their cars a huge amount of powers, so much that the clutch can't handle it, just for show...

Hmmm. that's a new one. I haven't heard about that problem, eventhough my father drives a BMW M5.. Do you have some sort of proof, cause this is new to me.

[skyline_r34v]

Never heard of the Motorsports Und series ever having clutch problems.

He's defending Mercedez and desperate to think up suffin cuz Benz is gettin smashed.

[Dresol]

Never heard of the Motorsports Und series ever having clutch problems.

He's defending Mercedez and desperate to think up suffin cuz Benz is gettin smashed.

Yeah. It has to be something like that, cause we haven't had that sort of problem yet and I don't think any Ms has that problem either.

[skyline_r34v]

Yeah. It has to be something like that, cause we haven't had that sort of problem yet and I don't think any Ms has that problem either.

It HAS to be suffin like that?? So in other words ur jus sayin it HASTA be a clutch failure cuz u can't find nething failing on BMW's?

[Thunf]

It HAS to be suffin like that?? So in other words ur jus sayin it HASTA be a clutch failure cuz u can't find nething failing on BMW's?

Like BMW, it's a good car. But stop complaining on Mercedes. Because those cars are great as well. What do you mean when claiming BMW have no problems and failures at all? Is the materials like iron, steel and aluminium different on BMW than on Merc? BMW wouldn't be comfortable if parts wouldn't be designed to be lighweight, that is also including Mercedes. When parts are very lightweight they tend to get exhausted after a while and eventually brake down. I've heard people complaining on both BMW and Mercedes for the rust and wear and the need to change the components and axles, there are no cars lasting it all. If you want to complain on a car, perhaps you should mention that weak links belongs to you favourite as well? If there are no weak links, the mechanical great feeling and upper comforts wouldn't be there as parts would be overdimensioned.

Perhaps you should read a certain topic named "carinspection" here somewhere for your knowledge?

About he clutch: that problem is just as big as the supposedly flexing you where talking about. I don't want to offend anyone, but I defend my favourite just as you do. BMW is a great car, but so are Merc.

[cstavaru]

Well, it's not the same thing.

The Mercedes thing came up after they constantly said that they had to limit their engine's power because the chassis or transmission cannot support it. I have never heard that BMW had to limit an engine's output because the clutch or the chassis can't handle it.

But I think it's all because the forced induction that Mercedes uses. That gives them lots of torque and lots of power, and they reach the limit of resistance on chassis and transmission. This is not happening with the BMW's. This is not to say that BMW's chassis or transmission can handle more torque than Mercedes's, it's just that BMW's engines never reach the power and torque of MB's engines, because they chose the NA route.

But the difference is that BMW has the capability to make FI engines ( like the F1 1400cmc/1400bhp they did years ago ), but Mercedes does not have the capability to make great performing NA engines.

Look at 2005 SLK55's 5.5 liter NA engine. It makes 360hp and 376lb-ft of torque. Now look at the new M5. The 5.0 liter makes 507hp and 383lb-ft of torque. That's a hell of a difference.

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo mv,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für BMW M (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

[LateNightCable]

Yeah. It has to be something like that, cause we haven't had that sort of problem yet and I don't think any Ms has that problem either.

It HAS to be suffin like that?? So in other words ur jus sayin it HASTA be a clutch failure cuz u can't find nething failing on BMW's?

Skyline, why the heat? What Dresol meant is that the comment about the crappy clutch must have been baseless, because he has heard of no such problem, and his family has experianced none on their M5.

Ha ha, BMW vs. Mercedes. It's such a touchy subject, it creeps up everywhere - worse than religion and politics combined. But then, isn't religion and politics what BMW and MB have become? Thats' the strongest form of automotive passion there is.

Such a viscious love, the marriage never ends. One of these days Alice, one of these days. Pow! Right in the kisser.

[Thunf]

Yes that's correct Latenight!

The E39 M5 clutch must last heavy loads and it wears pretty quickly. That is the E39 weak link. Also the frame must last allot of power, and that may also flex. We have a couple of roadbumps over here that is meant to slow the cars down, I sat in a 520i E39 and there where some jerks each time we went over the bumps.. All noices are loud in a quiet car. He use to have some kind of oil meant for rubber for the door lists where the sound comes from. When he use it he have no sound coming from the place for a month.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=38213

Skyline: "So in other words ur jus sayin it HASTA be a clutch failure cuz u can't find nething failing on BMW's"

-ALL cars have problems. Don't even dream of a car where you cannot find any problems on. Did you read the carinspection topic? The stats tells us that the 3 series got allot of problems at the uprights. And you find the C-class there too. So stop dream about "you can't find anything wrong with BMW". Nice car, ofcourse. Have you heard of simlilar expression like: "even the sun got dark spots"?

[LateNightCable]

Well, a clutch in any high-performance car is not bound to last a real long time, especially when driven with spirit. It's just one of those parts that tends to crap out sooner than anything else. Although, I have never known the E39 structure to be flexy, it's a very stiff car. Who knows what you were hearing, but I doubt it was the chassis flexing.

But it's true, no car is immune to mysterious sounds, that is just the nature of wear and tear, especially these days with so many componants working together. So lets' hear it from everybody!

" Mercedes makes a dumb move sometimes - BMW makes a dumb move sometimes. But they both make less than anyone else! "

[Thunf]

Well put LNC!

[GIR]

I haven't read through this whole thread so if I stumble over subjects already handled, excuse me.

Anywayz the clutch thing. The person who claimed that obviously never owned a bimmer himself. This claim kinda reminds me of the claim one guy made about the BMW tranny layout, something about putting the car in reverse everytime he wanted to put it in 1st, not realizing that the Getrag trannies have had several locks you have to push through before you can get it into reverse.

Again there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Getrag clutch. It needs replacing every +/- 100k km just like every other clutch and it feels perfectly good wether you're speeding or cruising.

-----------------

The only time MB limited their engine is on the current 65 cars. A V12 Biturbo pumping out 1200nm of torque as soon as 2000 rpm isn't something any piece of metal can handle.

If you can't imagine how much that is, in NL every household is entitled to 10,8kW of power maximum. That engine has a power output of 450kW, that is enough to power 42 households with electricity.

------------------

The difference between BMW and MB is the priority they give on their torque lines. BMW has high revving engines with torque at the mid and high end. MB has low revving engines with torque at the low and mid end.

The difference between the two is that both will get you upto the same speed but one will get you there faster and consume a hell of alot more fuel.

Lets also not forget that MB has been adhearing to very strict envoiremental rules and regulations. I have yet to see any other manufacturer produce high powered engines which generate as much power as the MB engines and still comply with their rules.

------------------

Anybody who mentions FI and BMW in the same sentence is an idiot!

[Thunf]

GIR, I was only defending my favourite and accused in the same line as dresdol. That's all. I don't have an M5, corect. Dresdol doesn't have an AMG CL65, right? He heard a statement from a guy, I heard the clutch thing from another guy.

BTW GIR, what's wrong with putting BMW and F1 in the same sentence?! Doesn't BMW have the strongest engine in F1 at the moment?

[Thunf]

But the difference is that BMW has the capability to make FI engines ( like the F1 1400cmc/1400bhp they did years ago ), but Mercedes does not have the capability to make great performing NA engines.

Eh?!! Mercedes does not have the capability? Who's Mercedes? It's a girl.

The carmanufacturer Mercedes hires competent people, just like everybody else. Do you know why Toyota probably got the most powerful engine in F1 today? Because they hired competent people in germany with the great cultural accuracy. The people working for Toyota is highly educated and they got an engine revving the most in the entire field, and by that then might be the strongest. Mercedes have also more than once been the strongest in the F1 field in some periods. They are not allowed to use turbos and compressors like the era you where talking about. It's a big difference. Mercedes wouldn't try to build a similar engine just because to have it in a testbench.

[skyline_r34v]

GIR, I was only defending my favourite and accused in the same line as dresdol. That's all. I don't have an M5, corect. Dresdol doesn't have an AMG CL65, right? He heard a statement from a guy, I heard the clutch thing from another guy.

BTW GIR, what's wrong with putting BMW and F1 in the same sentence?! Doesn't BMW have the strongest engine in F1 at the moment?

Uhhhhhhh, he never said nething about F1 racing. He said FI, u know as in turbocharging? superchargering? nitrous-boosting?

[Thunf]

Uhhhhhhh, he never said nething about F1 racing. He said FI, u know as in turbocharging? superchargering? nitrous-boosting?

Ups! my previous comment had still nothing to do with this.

[Thunf]

I haven't read through this whole thread so if I stumble over subjects already handled, excuse me.

Anywayz the clutch thing. The person who claimed that obviously never owned a bimmer himself. This claim kinda reminds me of the claim one guy made about the BMW tranny layout, something about putting the car in reverse everytime he wanted to put it in 1st, not realizing that the Getrag trannies have had several locks you have to push through before you can get it into reverse.

Again there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Getrag clutch. It needs replacing every +/- 100k km just like every other clutch and it feels perfectly good wether you're speeding or cruising.

-----------------

The only time MB limited their engine is on the current 65 cars. A V12 Biturbo pumping out 1200nm of torque as soon as 2000 rpm isn't something any piece of metal can handle.

If you can't imagine how much that is, in NL every household is entitled to 10,8kW of power maximum. That engine has a power output of 450kW, that is enough to power 42 households with electricity.

------------------

The difference between BMW and MB is the priority they give on their torque lines. BMW has high revving engines with torque at the mid and high end. MB has low revving engines with torque at the low and mid end.

The difference between the two is that both will get you upto the same speed but one will get you there faster and consume a hell of alot more fuel.

Lets also not forget that MB has been adhearing to very strict envoiremental rules and regulations. I have yet to see any other manufacturer produce high powered engines which generate as much power as the MB engines and still comply with their rules.

------------------

Anybody who mentions FI and BMW in the same sentence is an idiot!

Let's move away from the heat...

The reason why MB chose to go for low- and mid-end power is that it's in a way more efficient. Pistons don't need to stop, accelerate, slow down, stop, accelerate again as often... and to have a mass moving like that fast back and front needs it's energy. BMW and Mercedes, they don't make anything without a big thought. It's not just bolting on compressors and make large displacement for no reason.

Neighter at BMW where they put also a big thought and go for NA engines.

[Kevin321]

Yah this is going to be one heck of a car, MB adn Audi byebye.

[Thunf]

Probably Kevin! A F1 inspired V10 in a saloon, how cool isn't that?

[LateNightCable]

Hah! " race inspired " or " F1 inspired " is marketing talk, this is better than that. In the BMW tradition, the M5's V10 incorporates true racing technology. BMW has also made efforts to improve the acoustics, so count on this engine to sound a lot better than your average F1 engine, which in my opinion leaves much to be desired.

You could say that this engine is not really groundbreaking, since there are other engines of a similar nature that have been on the market for some time, like the Gallardo V10, or the high flying Ferrari 360 V8. But it really is a landmark for a series production car. And even if you can't afford an M5, or couldn't care less about F1 racing like me, it's good news for everybody because this marks the " trickling down " of F1 technology to regular cars. And the used car market is going to look mighty tasty down the road!

[Thunf]

In fact the M5 V10 has the same angle of 90 degree like BMW F1 engine. The oilsupply design is regulated equally as the F1 engine due to cornering forces, Bi-vanos camshaft timing is used on the f1 engine, and the individual throttle butterflies is also being used on the F1 engine. The engine electronics is similar as the piston firing order is the same on the F1 engine. Your right it's all marketing! As also there is the new 7 speed sequential gearbox, like F1. If you ever heard a F1 engine for real you would never compare that with any car engine, the F1 engines are wonders!

I looks sometimes like at Stuttgart they are economists, and at Bayern they are engineers! I love Mercedes because they got always something to come up with when people begins to complain. Like the old S-class... there where people in germany that spitted when they saw one! In 98 came the car that timeless in shape, truely wonderful. However, I'm not impressed by the E class weight distribution at all. It's exactly similar as the new european frontwheel driven Audi A6. The A6 is perhaps meant to be bought as quattro because it's not normal the weight distribution on a frontwheeldriven car is putted that much backwards. 53-47...

Folks, please put up some links to BMW M5 V10 soundfiles/videos as soon as you can!

[LateNightCable]

In 98 came the car that timeless in shape, truely wonderful.

Actually, many would consider the 1991-1999 ( W140 ) S-Class to be the last " timeless " S-Class, or maybe even the one before it. After that, Mercedes got all " McLuxury " on us. " Would you like some lowered quality and an order of fries with that? "

I meant that F1 inspired is ussually marketing talk, but in the case of this M5 engine, it is not. I've never been one to think of F1 engines as wonders. They are unpleasantly noisy, insanely expensive and posess a short shelf life. They are test beds, more than wonders.