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draden

an Idea for a better grip

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draden
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Idea: Reversed hovercraft for better grip

A car could pull itself towards the ground by sucking the air below itself, like a vacuum cleaner. So it would have a better grip.

This should be switched on only when needed (turning, accelerating or breaking). Bumpers should also be adjusted.

PS

is it possible to attach a picture which is not on the Internet? (no http...)

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thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

suction to the ground? sounds complicated. the idea of pulling the car down, or having it lower itself may be solid though.

draden
Geschrieben
suction to the ground? sounds complicated. the idea of pulling the car down, or having it lower itself may be solid though.

It's simple, just pumping the air from holes (made for this purpose) on the bottom of the car to the holes on the upper side. ("wheel holes" on the sides should be closed). It's like when you bring vacuum cleaner hose near the surface, it sticks to it (only here the shocks would hold the chassis above the road). This is the same thing, and it would add force to the wheels. If it would be strong enough it could even hold the car on the wall or something :)

In my first post I used the word "bumpers" instead of shocks :oops: , it's really embarrassing. As you can see my English is not quite perfect.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Thats' an interesting idea, I think some safety issues might come into play though. Like the risk of sucking up small children, slow moving people, or any loose objects on the street, - Not cool.

What would you do, to alleviate these problems?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

have any idea how much suction you would need? literally, you'd need a seccond engine to make the power to create this suction. For right now, gravity is the best source of stick, the question is how best to use it.

PorschePlayboy928
Geschrieben

I guess that would add extra weight and make you a bit slower

GIR
Geschrieben

The idea isn't new :) The McLaren F1 does this already. It's rather complicated and you also need a little blower just infront of the air inlet to blow leaves and other kind's of dirt away from the intake.

It would be better and cheaper to have a socalled difuser under your car. A difuser works on the same principal as an airplane wing, except upside down. The airflow below the car will be faster then the airflow above the car so the car will automaticaly be pushed down.

Funny thing is that almost all the motorsport leagues do not allow these kind of tricks. I don't know why, maybe because it is harder to configure a good wing setup then slap on a difuser.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

The McLaren F1 system costs $750,000, thats' what they never told you :wink: . J/K

The McLaren setup must not do much, or we would be hearing about it. It doesn't surprise me that most racing leagues would not allow a mechanical means of producing grip, I can see how that could be prone to a lot of debate and regulation if it were allowed, so they just say no to it completely.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

spoilers are pure and simple, no room for arguement. the "active aerodynamics" on F1 was more or less marketing. It really didn't do much. McLaren isn't an especially grippy car, .86 on the skid pad. The Chrysler 300M Special Edition can match that number. It's not a great handler, and it isn't grippy, it is however very fast. The McLaren F1 also had overheating issues. Maybe they should have used those fans on the engine instead of the road.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

I regret to inform you that that idea has already been considered. Heck, I even came up with that idea myself when I was 12 yeras old. But as it turns out, the excessive amount of heat generated would make the entire thing fall apart. Apparently a hovercraft sucks cool air, because the air is near the sea, but if this was tried in a car, the fan would take in hot air and suffocate (they taught us that in Harriers-101). Furthermore, if a rock, or a piece of metal from an accident were to enter the fan, the mayhem that would result would be worse than you could imagine. Theoretically this fan would have a radious of less than half a meter, and would need to spin at around 2000RPM for the suction effect to work. The car itself, afterall, needs a good deal of energy to keep it stuck to the ground. A small outside object entering a fan of that size spinning at high RPMs would shatter the blades and the resulting aftereffect would send broekn objects flying throughout the car at speeds of over 230MPH. It's too risky and incontainable. Besides, they currently don't even allow this to be done in racing, let alone elsewhere. This one needs a bit more thought, amigo.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben
Theoretically this fan would have a radious of less than half a meter, and would need to spin at around 2000RPM for the suction effect to work. A small outside object entering a fan of that size spinning at high RPMs would shatter the blades and the resulting aftereffect would send broekn objects flying throughout the car at speeds of over 230MPH.

Over 230 mph? Why not 220 or 235? You sure do have a thing for mathematical calculations around here. It would really depend upon the weight of the object being ejected by the shattered blades. A small stone and a twig are not going to be traveling at the same velocity, theoretically speaking :wink: .

draden
Geschrieben

Well, it seamed like a good idea so I had to check it out.

There may be a general rule for ideas:

if it isn't already done, then something is wrong with it.

(works well for me)

Thank you all for comments.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

izzy, where in the hell did that calculation come from? you didn't mention anything about blade angle, area, or curvature, the type of car, the stiffness of the springs, the natural downforce.

to accurately get a number, you'd be talking enough calculus to bust your balls. I just know no small fan is making greater than 1,000lbs of suction.

I have a 28" fan next to me that turns at top speed 4,200rpms. It isn't strong enough to blow itself over, much less suck a car to the ground. You'd need a big ass fan.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben
if it isn't already done, then something is wrong with it.

In this day and age, maybe. But in everyone's hurry to invent the latest high tech, there are no doubt many very simple solutions to things that are overlooked, and staring at people in the face everyday, just waiting to be discovered.

Keep dreaming! I am :P .

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben
izzy, where in the hell did that calculation come from? you didn't mention anything about blade angle, area, or curvature, the type of car, the stiffness of the springs, the natural downforce.

to accurately get a number, you'd be talking enough calculus to bust your balls. I just know no small fan is making greater than 1,000lbs of suction.

I have a 28" fan next to me that turns at top speed 4,200rpms. It isn't strong enough to blow itself over, much less suck a car to the ground. You'd need a big ass fan.

Well, thankfully, I wasn't the one to do most of the "ball-busting calculus". And the numbers are mostly rough numbers. You don't need to beat me with a 2by4. I've been told by a Physics professor that the blade angle and curvature don't matter in an example of this scale. The results will be intense nontheless. As for type of car, imagine ANY car. Most aren't too different, especially when it comes to racing. The stiffness of the springs and the nat. DF can be argued, but most of those numbers are rough numbers. To put things in perspective, Fox, I've been witness to the overspin of a CDROM drive. I was told, after seeing the shocking aftereffects, that if a CD spun at 12500RPM was to break, the shards would travel in every direction at roughly 350KPH. Even if you were to reduce the 230MPH figure by 25%, you'd still get ~185MPH, which means any object traveling at that speed (velocities should be increased and dereased depending onthe properties of the object) would poke a whole through the engine. As for twigs and rocks, umm, I don't know of any parts in any cars that would use twigs or rocks. And on most race-tracks you're not likely to have either of those be sucked into the fan or the engine. I'm just giving you the worst-case scenario. The odds for that are small. And I'd be more frightened of the pieces of the blades, than any outside object. Sorry if I made 230MPH sound so specific. I just made up a high number close to the probable one I've been given. All I know is it would likely be a high velocity over 200MPH. Fox, you'd need a big-ass fan, yes, and one that spins much higher than 4200RPM, and it wouldn't be your regular cooler fan. It would most likely need s***loads of power, and it might even require variable spin-rates, depending on the engineering problems that might arise. And here's another problem: where would all that air come from, to be sucked into the fan? Most race-cars It would need a separate air-intake, because most of the air under the car, passes under the car at very high speeds, and there is very little of it anyway. If too much air goes under the car, it would fly. And if all the air goes into the fan, then theer would be no air passing under the car past the point where the fan in installed. Think about it. We might not be great mathematicians or physicians, and I'm no Newton, but I can tell you that idea has many flaws. Forgive me for the number guys. I'll get numbers that are closer to reality, if you want. But I'm not completely denying the fact that there could be simple (or otherwise) solutions to the problems. I don't mean to completely discourage you. If you think it could work, don't give up on your idea. You might invent the next telephone or lightbulb.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Probably no stones or twigs on a race track, but in a street application, you might pick up a dirty diaper and a Big Mac wrapper or two through the intake. Aside from power, it would take quite a bit of surface space to incorporate a functional suction system, more space than a car has to give. It could work on another kind of transport.

izzyloveslizzy
Geschrieben

You might be able to make up for it with more power, but that's like banging your fist on the TV to fix the picture.

I said it from the start, such an idea (even if it were to work) would only work in races (and even that's iffy, because not too many racing committees are going to allow fans under cars). I don't think it would work at all on the street. And besides, for the whole suction system to work, the surface of wherever it is you're driving needs to be flat. That's not the case with most normal driving conditions. And besides, such mad and bizzarre ideas are thuoght-up when there is a need for more speed. You don't need it on the streets, unless an ordinary day for you means driving down the road at 260KPH. This is strictly for race tracks we're takling about.

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