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Pagani Zonda. Supreme Road Machine?

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With a 7.3 liter Mercedes V12, top speed in excess of 220 mph, 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, and the most exotic body style going, is it king of the road?

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WiWa
Geschrieben

Moin

Very good the Zonda - the body style is very cool and not so normal.

But the koenigsegg is my favourite! It has a little bit better facts: top 235 mph, 0-60 in 3,5s, only V8 but swedish! :D

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

the koenigsegg easily takes on a Zonda, it's ford designed, swedish modified 4.6L V8 is good for 655hp, topping the output from the 7.3L Mercedes AMG V12, the CC is just a higher performing machine, it threatens to take fastest production car status away from the McLaren F1, and it has great avante garde design like the doors. Plus, it's from sweden.

GIR
Geschrieben

I wouldn't be so sure. The KoenigsEgg has a very sleak design, an airresistance factor of just 0.30. TopGear tested both cars on their track and they both scored the same time, infact the Zonda was just 0.10 secs faster but that's neglectable.

Anywayz this means that both cars have been pushed to the limit when it comes to handeling. On a straight I'm sure the Egg could beat the Zonda.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

well, actually, on the top gear acceleration test, CCV8S did beat Zonda, i don't take top gear's results very seriously though. They test the car once, there are enough intangibles that could throw things off that unless both cars are tested repeatedly under similar circumstances, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

A temperature difference of 10F and dewpoint difference of 10F could easily have moved the track time more than .1 secconds, so you have to look at conditions too when you track test.

imported_Aston Martin
Geschrieben
well, actually, on the top gear acceleration test, CCV8S did beat Zonda, i don't take top gear's results very seriously though. They test the car once, there are enough intangibles that could throw things off that unless both cars are tested repeatedly under similar circumstances, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

A temperature difference of 10F and dewpoint difference of 10F could easily have moved the track time more than .1 secconds, so you have to look at conditions too when you track test.

Considering it was Jeremy Clarkson doing the road test in the Koenigsegg, and he had to get the Lotus chief driver out to show him how to get the Elise back end to step out, I wouldn't take the test times too seriously. True about the temperatures affecting performance, and so can the tyres fitted and the petrol used etc. On the whole, I'd say they were pretty evenly matched.

If the Zonda carried an Italian heart it would be nigh on perfect. As for the Koenigsegg, I've only ever seen one road test, so I'll wait until I hear other people's opinions before making judgement on that one.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

the reason that the Zonda is capable of being such a high performance machine is that incredibly powerful and advanced Mercedes AMG engine under the hood. I think in the end the CCV8S is the performance leader. All numbers point that way.

WiWa
Geschrieben

Ok, now we need the time from the Nürburgring "green hell" from Zonda and Egg.

A car with a low airresistance factor is not the fastest.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

low air resistance helps, but it isn't any good without a high downforce to match it, and a good driveline to make use of it.

I'd love to see the egg and zonda go round the gring.

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

I don't think that I could drive the Koenigsegg. Have you seen pictures from the back, it has ridiculous blind spots. Although the Ford has been around for 100 years, I don't think that they can engineer supercars like the Italian and Germans. I can't say anything about Swedish cars and how they are designed and engineered because there aren't that many.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

the blind spotss are not that horrible. the performance is what counts.

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

Performance is what counts most on race tracks, and nobody in their right minds would bring their $350,000+ car to its limits on a track. It's on the road that everything counts. You need: drivability, curb appeal, killer interior, beautiful sound, the ability to stick to turns, and an engine that presses you into your seat, hard. Yes, performance counts here too, but not to the extremes of 1.15 g's or 240 mph Both of these cars have what it takes to be a supreme machine, it's just down to opinion. I believe that the Italians are supreme at designing exotic and sexy body styles, and the Germans beat all others at building powerplants that are superbly engineered, super refined monsters, bar none. Even if the CC8's V8 cranks out more power than the AMG V12, there is just something about 12 cylinders that can't be beat by 8, it's beyond performance. It's more of a statement. Why do people buy the Mercedes S600, when the S55 is just as fast? It's those extra 4 cylinders that make the statement clear. And one honest question: Can you even buy a Koenigsegg?

GIR
Geschrieben

Well people who buy an S600 probably buy it because the S600 is the top of the line and people who have enough money to buy it just want the best. The S55 and S600 aren't directly comparable btw. The S55 is actually faster then the S600 but the S600 has more options available for it. The S55 has it's torque peak earlier, has a longer stroke and has a shorter 0-60 time while the S600 has more options for the upholstery and electronics.

If it were upto me I would go for the AMG cause that AMG badge beats the V12 badge or better yet an AMG badge with V12 badge (Hooray for the CL65). People who buy the S600 don't know what I know, they just buy the top of the line model or they want a comfortable car and not a racehorse.

Anywayz the S600 is built for luxury and comfort all the way. The fact that it turns off 6 cylinders to save fuel sais enough. The S55 is built for speed the adjusted speedshift, ABC program and no electronics that turns off cylinders also sais enough.

Also the wait time on an regular Mercedes is 4 months while the wait time on an AMG model can run upto 1 1/2 years. That alone would make me settle for the S600 instead of a S55. Funny thing is that you can get more money for a AMG, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. car on the market because of the wait time. Mercedes has been battleing this phenomenon for years. If they find out a dealer is hicking up prices, auctioning off cars or placing fake orders to build up a stock and sell them for a higher price then they will discontinue the membership.

You can buy a KoenigsEgg, if you have the right contacts and enough money. The King of Oman has had one since 2001.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

they hope to get the koenigsegg certified in more countries for easy availability. You can buy one. That V12 stigma is fine, but when i put my foot to the floor, and the V8 gets me to sixty nearly half a seccond faster, i will feel no need for any more cylenders. The germans do craft a fine powerplant, the italian hand is well experineced at crafting exotics, but the swedes have for a long time been phenomenal automotive engineers, and have never really tested what they could do. The CCV8 is the supreme limits of swedish engineering. The engine is a firebreather, torque is flat and comes on low, the engine keeps steaming all the way to the redline, the handling is razor sharp, i just think the numbers give the edge to CCV8, and while number matter most on the track, they still translate to performance on the street. Trust me. You'll falter before either of these on the tough corners.

The S55 is much sportier, the message it sends is that I'm cool, it sends a message that I'm more fun than the S600 driver, The S600 is the ultimate mercedes limo (discounting maybach), it comes with the top of the bucket everything. If i were riding in it, I'd want S600 all the way, but no doubts I'd want mine to say S55 AMG if I were behind the wheel.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Relying on people to have the right contacts just to purchase the car is not very wise of Konigsegg. They need to get their snobby ass a dealer network.

If an AMG car has to be ordered and the wait time can be a year and a half, I'm wondering how I have seen a handful of brand new AMGs' in the past waiting for a buyer at the local Benz lot. I have seen a woman, probably the dealer's wife or something cruising around in an ML55 tester.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

i have a secret for you. Those AMGs on the lot are for sale. If you go up to the dealer manager and whisper the right thing in his ear, they will be shined up and have your name on them. They can't just go sell them to any fool looking to drive it off today and haggle on the sticker could they?

Koenigsegg is working on increasing production. At the moment they are trying only to sell to high profile clientel because they can only make a limited number of cars, and would like to create as much attention for themselves as an automaker as they can. As they get production ramped up, they will start becoming easier to buy.

If you think it is hard to get a CC, try buying say a mclaren F1, you can't at any price right now, or how about an enzo, they had to invite you to buy it. There is a long waiting list for a murci or zonda too.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Thats' what I mean, why wait a year? If you really want an AMG you can scoop one up today. You said there is a long waiting list for the Murcielago too? I see pictures of dealer showrooms, and they're laying all over the place like they can't get rid of them, new ones. They are not computer manipulated photos either.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

a freind of the family looked into getting one, they told him 4-6 months to get one, he said no. Some BMW dealers are already putting out waiting lists for the 2005 M5.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Getting off the subject here, but then thats' nothing new. Afterall, this is the one website where you can talk about a jet and a Lada in the same forum. :wink:

Anyway, does anyone have any experience with the 4.0 liter straight six of the TVR Cerbera Speed Six? I'm curious as to how this engine stacks up against the worlds top sixes, BMW M, Porsche, etc.

At 350 hp. and 330 lb.ft. it seems like a monster, how are it's dynamics?

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