E36 M3 dyno chart....food for thought

[imported_BillCA]

Pirst shot at posting an image so let's hope it works.

Here's the dyno chart for my e36 M3. Mods are; Dinan supercharger, intercooler, 10 lb. boost, Dynospot cams, Activeautowerks exhaust and 3:64 diff. The penciled chart at the bottom are the stock figures. The penciled chart at the top are dyno figures for an M5. What you can see is that you can beat an M5 (done that 3x) but you'd better be at 5,000 rpm where the SC M3 Hp/torque, lower wieght and gearing work to your advantage. Since the M5 torque chart is typical for V8's...big torque at very low rpm, I've found that any old 5.0 L Mustang or 5.7 L Camaro can cream my car at lower revs if I'm not at that 5,000 rpm point.

So here's my delimma. I'm either going to keep the car a while and go 12 lbs. boost/ 460hp which requires an engine rebuild with lower CR pistons or by a used e46 M3 and add the new Dinan SC. Dinan thinks I'm better off with an e46 since my e36 is old enough that all sorts of other parts will start to wear out. I'm leaning in that direction. On the other hand the e46 just doesn't have the boy racer feel of the e36.

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[djfux69]

$$$$ per hp sucks for bmw's

maybe get something cheaper with more of a boy racer feel for you that goes faster... like an s14, or evo, sti, etc.

[imported_BillCA]

BMW performance parts are pretty pricey. Dinan wants between $10-20k for the e46 kit! I've thought about other brands but I'm pretty much into BMWs. This is fifth one.

[djfux69]

but if you want something fast and dont feel like going broke, stay away from bmw. iirc the fastest e46 only runs a 12.1, and it has over 40k in mods. waste of money

[AidonGTR]

To BillCA.Have you considered going japanese by the way of a Nissan Skyline or a toyata supra.The Reasons being are that they are ultra reliable,cheap to modify so that means more bang for your buck,great handling cars especially the Skyline R34 GTR.It is possibly one of the best drivers cars in the world with its highly advanced electronic systems on board that make it such a great car to drive.after you buy the car depending on what the spec is on the car you buy for 10k to 20k you could see 600hp or more.That means at 600hp a top speed of 200mph quite easily.0-60mph in about 3.5-4.0 seconds.I have the footage to prove it.A car like this will out accelerate and out handle any bmw or the majority of supercars available today for minimal amount of money spent taking into perspective the price of a BMW M3 and how much it costs to customise the engine,or look at it this way look at the price of a lamborghini murchialago and the performance of that car and compare it to a Skyline.You know it makes sense.If you want supercar performance but japanese reliability that you can even use as an everyday car for BMW money or less go japanese.Just drive one then you will see what I mean,you won't be disapointed.

[imported_BillCA]

Thanks for the input guys. Those are interesting alternatives and I've given those cars and some others a thought but it really comes down to liking a certain type car for certain reasons. My brother is a Porsche guy and while I think they're fantastic it's not my favorite. A good friend has a new S4 which is really killer but again just not my car. Good or bad I just like BMW's. I've had a 2002 with Webers, a 320i, 325i 84', 325i 93' and the M3 the handling and balance just suit me. The car I really want is the future M2 but that's looking like a few years out so I need to do something til then. Actually if I was going to get something else it would probably be the next Pontiac GTO....but now GM says this is the last year.

[bleh]

thats a very nice torque curve! what are the other plots though? they seem interesting too.

i can understand your loyalty to bmw. i have the same feeling for honda, even though they are polar opposites in some respects.

i think you should just be happy with what youve got, ive always favored it, however i dont think building the engine for an extra 2lbs of boost is worth it. are there any other althernatives for a power increase? a quality header maybe? i understand the rest of the package is pretty complete, so a quality aftermarket header should provide some very healthy gains if you dont have one already. i say save the $.

and if what uli says is correct about the fastest e46... then the e46 is definitely a poor choice if your unsatified with what you have now.

cliffnotes:

-dont get an e46

-dont bother rebuilding the engine for minimal gains

-find another alternative to free up power and/or throw the $ you have saved for the project into flourishing mutual fund or stocks and buy the m2

[imported_BillCA]

Thaks for the input Bleh and thanks for the posting tips.

The top hp/trq curve is an M5 and lower plots are my car stock. I'm a big fan of Honda as well especially the new Civic Si. I had a 92' Civic and I loved it.

I guess I should clear up some things. I'm not the least unhappy with my M3. The car is great. The crank HP is 407, 333 ft/lbs (for comparison to other cars) so the power to wieght is 7.9:1. It goes real well. It's just that as car guys you always want to improve things. The extra boost and engine rebuild generates another 60hp (7.0 power to wieght). Headers don't seem to add much to the M3, only 3-5hp on the dyno. The car is over at Dinan now for some maintenance and it's pretty clear that if I keep this car for another 5 years I'm faced with major repairs....but I could still see it. I had an e46 M3 yesterday for a bit and I liked it alot. So the other side is sell my car for 15k or so by my friend's e46 for 35k or so and supercharge it or keep e36 and put around 10-15k in it. Either could work.

[bleh]

is that 3-5 whp based on a factory motor or the charged one? and is that the increase in peak or across the board? there must be a strong spot that is improved. maybe a 5krpm bump which wouldnt effect your whp rating at all since its midrange torque but would aid greatly when shifting in to the next gear

also arent there other companies you could turn to for a header? i know with a supercharger it is very beneficial to have much longer/thicker runners. there must be a quality header available that is a leap above factory. with most hondas a header decent alone can yeild 10ftlbs across most rpms, some have even produced 25whp on an otherwise stock motor(with free flowing exhaust however) and then leaps and bounds on a motor with work done.

do you have any options other than dinan?

maybe forking over some serious bank for flanges and some piping and getting some performance shop to fab a header for you? who knows it could be good for their business later on...

either way i have a hard time believing that the factory header yeilds little gains to other headers on a motor that is under pressure

[imported_BillCA]

That figure is whp on a factory e36 M3. Shows up in the mid range. It would be probably a little stronger on my car but the headers (various manufacturers) are very expensive on M3 for the results. It looks like the stock header is actually pretty efficient. I had the same experience as you on my Honda. I got a very nice increase with a header and exhaust upgrade for not much money. On another note, I just got the car back from Dinan for a 100K go thru. I guess there were some parts that had been slowly degrading that I'd missed....slightly loose SC connections, air and oil breather filters that had gone too long, a weak coil that had also weakened a plug. Man, what a difference. I guess today I have no complaints with the car.