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Kevin321

Will they?

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Kevin321
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Letzter Beitrag:

Will BMW ever make a car like no

other again, They got the Mclaren

but it will soon be bet.

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kleinefisch
Geschrieben

They never really had the Mclaren, they built the engine, which is a quite a claim in itself. It was still built by Mclaren, carried the Mclaren badges, and the only ones who ever knew that BMW had anything to do with it are enthusiasts.

GIR
Geschrieben

The engine in the McLaren has a BMW M badge on it, but you are right. Nobody knows that BMW made the S70/2 engine in the F1 and also nobody knows that the engine in the BMW 8 series is the same engine.

Anywayz the McLaren F1 is not only fast because of god egnine building on BMW's side but also because of good car building on McLaren's side. Gordon Murray (the guy who designed the F1) had the strictest requirements and only wanted the best. Like for instance, one of the reasons why the F1 is so expensive is because the enginebay is isolated with gold. Gold is the best known heat reflector.

Anywayz I don't think BMW will charge into the HP wars Mercedes and other manufacturers are doing now and they wont build a supercar on their own. They just do what they want todo and what they know best and that is engineer good cars. If they ever wanted to build a supercar they would've built M8.

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

You must've watched the Top Gear on the Mclaren, GIR :D . Why doesn't BMW enter into MB territory with something like an M7? I think that people would look at BMW more seriously. When you go to a BMW dealer, right across the street is the Mercedes dealer. Thats because both marques are trying to market to the same group of people, so, if BMW were to invest in higher performance, high-line, luxo-rockes, people my buy a Bimmer instead of a Benz.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben
Nobody knows that BMW made the S70/2 engine in the F1 and also nobody knows that the engine in the BMW 8 series is the same engine.

Actually, the S70/2 in the F1 is far removed from the S70 in the 850CSi, if not an entirely different block. The engine in the McLaren though was originally intended for an " M8 " back in the early 90s' but they shelved it. So, in that sense, the F1 has a one of a kind engine.

I don't think it's BMW's game to go completely wild Ferrari style. And a large AMG luxo rocket supercruiser may be the Mercedes way, but I don't think BMW would plant the M badge on a car who's handling would be compromised by weight, as it could be in an " M7 " or something. Handling is utmost. It's a good bet that the 5-Series is the largest car you will ever see an M version of. Who knows though with that weirdo Bangle calling shots in a major way.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

The block is very similar between the S70-2 V12 and the V12 in 850csi, the heads are totally different though, employing a totally different valvetrain and combustion chamber layout.

I've seen test drive results of the SLR, and they are dissapointing to say the least. They are marginally better if that, and only in some areas, than a porsche 911. It is a wonderfully luxurious vehicle, but it came in much heavier than was first predicted, no one doubts it is a great performance car and a work of art, but it should be better than 3.7 to sixty.

It's no F1, that's for sure.

What will be interesting is BMW's upcomming M1, a mid-engine supercar slated to compete with 911 turbo, 420 modena, Ford GT, DB5, and the like. Originally it was slated for a 3.5L I6, but now word is that the magnesium block V10 employed in M5 will be used, possibly uptuned slightly, making no fewer than 550hp - in a compact all aluminum body.

That sounds promissing.

PersianJ
Geschrieben

Is there a link(s) that I can go to to read more info on the upcoming M1? That sounds like a really awesome car :-)

thanks ...

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

The proposed new " M1 " is still very new, and a long way off if they build it, so there is not a whole lot of information available on it. But here is a link to an old MotorTrend tid bit in case you have't seen it before.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0301_m1/

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

it is exected as a 2006 model year car. That puts it 2 years off, but we could see concepts within six months to a year. no promises it will get built, but if it did, damn.

Kevin321
Geschrieben

Why not put that s70 into the M1?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

to be honest, it's old. It's a great motor, but the new 5.5L V10 just might be better, if not newer and more advanced.

More importantly, BMW signed a contract with McLaren agreeing NEVER to produce the S70-2 ever again..

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Phuh, BMW should tell McLaren to shove it. They were lucky enough to have BMW let them use that engine, and be so cooperative to work it over for them. Not to mention to let McLaren make everybody think it was their very own design with those valve covers :roll: .

Kevin321
Geschrieben
Phuh, BMW should tell McLaren to shove it. They were lucky enough to have BMW let them use that engine, and be so cooperative to work it over for them. Not to mention to let McLaren make everybody think it was their very own design with those valve covers :roll: .

Thank you, now that Mclaren is with MB BMW should

use that engine when and were ever they want, Cable hit the nail on

the head.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

yeah, i'm pretty sure the penalty for violated the contract is well not worth trying it.

REMEMBER. S70-2 is a decade old, it was a great engine, but they could design an even better one now, they just don't particularly need to. The new 5.5L V10 will be a great engine. What would BMW put a 627HP V12 into anyways?

(btw, a whole lot of why the F1 cost SOOOOO Damn Much was that engine)

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Whether or not BMW ever used the S70/2 again, the principle is that it's BMW's engine, they should retain full rights to it. The only reason anyone thinks about McLaren on a wide scale is because of what BMW did for them, that engine was the crucial ingredient. And when it comes to legalities, I don't think a bunch of self important small timers like McLaren would want to mess with BMW AG. In the words of a 14 year old mall rat, " They don't want to go there. " :wink:

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

Are you kidding? Mclaren didn't need BMW, if anything, BMW was begging to be part of that car. Who wouldn't want to be a part of it? Mclaren could have contracted any manufacturer to produce an engine for them, and they probably could have put out, BMW just had more to offer to them at that point in time.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

uh kleine, at the time, there was NO other engine in the world that could match the S70-2 in horsepower per pound with that level of reliability. BMW did not beg in any way to be part of that, they simply put in a bid to McLaren to provide the engine, and they were clear and away the winner. Without that engine, the McLaren F1 couldn't have been what it was.

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

So Bimmer was the first to the punch. Doesn't mean that Mclaren was bowing down and worshipping BMW. I agree that the BMW engine was the best there was to offer to Mclaren, but, if Mclaren so pleased, they could have easily contracted another monufacturer to produce there engine. There is a reason that BMW had to sign a contract to agree never to use the S70 on any other application, because they could afford to present that to BMW, and BMW seems to have been more than willing to accept that deal, weren't they. LateNight makes it sound like Mclaren was privilaged to be using Bimmers engines, but it is the other way around.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

McLaren was privilaged to use the BMW engine, and Mercedes is privilaged to be associated with the renvigorated image of McLaren. Thats' the way it goes.

GIR
Geschrieben

Gordon Murray was no idiot you know. He could've picked any manufacturer out there but he picked BMW for a reason and that is that BMW, in that time, was making the most advanced and best engines available anywhere. Gordon didn't even ask for the S70/2, he just specified the engine chracteristics and BMW built the engine for him.

In a interview Gordon even said that the BMW engine was alittle overweight but BMW made up for it with some extra power. I'm sure that any other manufacturer at that time could not have built an engine that could fit Gordon's specs, be it Mercedes, Porsche, Ford or Honda.

Kevin321
Geschrieben
McLaren was privilaged to use the BMW engine, and Mercedes is privilaged to be associated with the renvigorated image of McLaren. Thats' the way it goes.

DAMN RIGHT!!!! Mclaren came to BMW, not the

other way around.

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

If anybody builds better engines than BMW, it's Porsche. And a little note, BMW's name is on the engine. It says BMW MPower, and it says Mclaren. And if Mclaren "came" to BMW, than there is no way that they could have convinced Bimmer to sign that agreement.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

ok, hows this, if porsche or mercedes, or honda, or ford, or peugeot, or anyone made a better engine, why didn't they buy it?

Do you know why they signed that agreement, and it says McLaren on the valve-covers?

I'll give you a hint, it is a nice 7 digit number preceded by $

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

Ok, we should move on from this topic, but it does not make sense that if BMW was the only company in the world who could supply a sufficient engine for Mclaren, a monopoly one could say, that they would sign an agreement giving the rights to that engine to Mclaren. If BMW truly was the only ones around who could produce such an engine, they could push Mclare around a little, but it didn't work that way, so there was something else going on that maybe you didn't find in all your research.

And by the way, BMW MPower is on the valve covers.

349-6.jpg

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

why would they need to push them around? I see nothing wrong with how they did it.

Do you know of any engine of that era that could match S70/2.

You saw above the data from the interview, even the dude from mclaren said no other powerplant of the day could do it.

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