Phaeton. To be or not to be

[MaxDriver]

Do you have any driving experience of Phaeton? No? It is the basic reason of your errors and negative impressions in the relation to Phaeton. My friend has MB S500 4matic. He is very pleased with his car, except for the moments when something unexpectedly fails. So, when we have made test-drive of Phaeton, he is very long nothing could tell. On the one hand it was a pity of the spent money to him MB , and on the other hand he in any way could not understand, why VW has left such good impression from driving, feeling of the superiority, excellent feedback with a road, stability and unique comfort. Phaeton it is not that automobile which it is possible correctly to compare with MB. The degree of quality and performance is higher, from trivialities, up to an adjustable suspension and extremely pleasant motor. And how BMW 745i, you ask? It is a lot of snow and ice more than 4 months lay on roads of my country during the year. Road conditions are very difficult for drivers, because the road surface is very slippery and rough. Whether it is necessary to speak what advantage has Phaeton (with a AWD and pneumatic suspension) from BMW? Phaeton is a great automobile. I would like to congratulate the designers, engineers, managers for creation of such miracle. "If only not a badge VW...", - My friend very silently has told, sitting in his MB, - "Nobody will understand me correctly, if I buy it... " (sorry for my Engl.)

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo MaxDriver,

 

kennst du schon Phaeton. To be or not to be (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

Andere Automarken Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | Andere Automarken Zubehör (Anzeige)

[Mihai]

Hey, I agree with you. Vw phaeton is the best in its class. And I know how it drives.

[thepolarfoxqx]

It is slower, and lacks the hanling of A8, XJ, 7, and S. Its fit and finnish, as well as road feedback cannot possibly be better than A8. It is a different sort of car, and makes a good impression upon first driving (most VW/Audi cars do). I just don't think it will stand up to a straight on comparison against S, 7, A8, or even the 2004 XJ. It seems to me, that they put too many features that you won't use in it.

[MaxDriver]

Dear Mr. Fox.

In first, my wife and I we want to congratulate you on purchase of the new Land Rover.

In second, I want to tell that you deeply are mistaken about opportunities of BMW 7, MB S. 8)

Even 7, S owners very positively respond about the Phaeton. And your negative perception of Phaeton has not any bases. I with confidence can tell, that BMW and MB S much more slower and clumsy in comparison with Phaeton on an ice and snow road. Simply you do not want to believe and understand, that there has come new time of the relation to VW brand. Good luck.

[thepolarfoxqx]

on contrare, i have for a long time said that the VW marque was going to stretch up market so as to cover the entire spectrum of automotive oppurtunity, they have the luxury bread and butter vw line and sporter bavarian "bahn-storming" audi line. VW is capable of an amazing car. I am a big advocate of all wheel drive - as you can see from cars - (though my rwd volvo is very capable on snow), but S class has started offering the very potent Steyr-Puch 4Matic system in S class, which should make it an equal in poor weather to a Phaeton or A8. I think there is potential in phaeton, and know it is a very compotent luxury sedan, but my impressions upon seeing one (especially when I got in and felt the controls) is that it wasn't a sports sedan. I think it certainly has a place, but it is very heavy, and i think on a good weather day, 7 series and S class (a8 in general) has it beat in the fun to drive. Overall i think it is a very competent car. I just don't feel it is toe to toe with A8 and 7 in terms of handling at the edge.

I like my Land Rover quite a bit (though it is not my personal daily driver). I always liked the land rovers, but until this year with the 4.6, they just struck me as being a bit underpowered, and I couldn't justify one. I must say I have been nothing but happy with that car.

[MaxDriver]

Thank for your opinion. I respect your point of view, but if to be correct, it is impossible to name BMW 7, MB S and A8 a sports sedan. As well as VW Phaeton.

It is not sports sedans. Certainly, it is very pleasant to drive in any of them. But usually nobody speaks about sports advantages of these automobiles. Speak about other things not interesting for me to discuss. What such a sports sedan? I think, that I shall be right on 100 %, if I shall tell, that the really sport sedan is Subaru Impreza WRX STI (or Mitsu EVO if you don't like product of Fuji Heavy Ind. ) When you take a driver place and start the engine, just play with throttle, and the question about sports properties of BMW 7, MB S and A8 does not exist any more. Improbable acceleration and brake dynamics perfected in rally battles, very nice balance of handling and feedback... And the price is less twice or even more.

P.S.

But everything, even the experts of a German magazine "Auto Motor und Sport" have recognized, that VW it is better, little bit better, than MB S. :roll:

[Mihai]

I saw the article about the phaeton in auto motor und sport.

bmw 7er and a8 are the sport cars of the luxury class, and the phaeton and s class are the traditional cars of the luxury class. I think phaeton is better than the s class.

[thepolarfoxqx]

the phaeton is offered with all-wheel drive, so is the S class

The phaeton offers a V6 (240hp), a V8 (330hp), and a W12 (404hp)

The S offers two V8s, a 5.0L (302hp) and a supercharged 5.4L (493hp), and a Twin turbo V12 (also 493hp)

It appears that the S class has the advantage in power, while the Phaeton does have some unique features MB doesn't have yet. On paper it is a toss-up (well, except for price and brand prestige), so I think it is a matter of taste really. I know S class owners who have driven a W12 Phaeton, and have been displeased, although I know that many S an 7 drivers have been impressed, it comes down to what you most care about in a car.

[izzyloveslizzy]

I'd ove to own the 404HP V12 Phaeton. I'd certainly take that over an A8. Besides it's something new. And anyway don't feel too sorry for it. It's gonna be a huge success if VW has it's way like it always does.

[Mihai]

the phaeton w12 actually has 420hp.

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo MaxDriver,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für Andere Automarken (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

[izzyloveslizzy]

That might be metric horse-power. Also the figures may be older and/or newer depending on the sources y'all got your info from.

[mv]

lets wait for phaeton R with its turbocharged variant producing more than 600 hp...

[thepolarfoxqx]

you know that Audi/VW scrapped the turbocharged W12 powered A8 - so I am curious as to if the Phaeton R (to be powered by the same powerplant) will wash out before production as well.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Curious. Phaeton R variant gets green light but RS8 doesn't? Hmm.... I wonder what the hell's going on over at VW management. If we see a Phaeon R then there's no reason why we shouldn't get an RS8. Audi IS the more hardcore of the 2, and it IS the luxury division, so it would only make sense....

[imported_Corey]

I have a whole new perspective on VW after purchasing a Touareg. But, I have seen and thoroughly checked the Phaeton out, and have one comment. It seems to be a pretty well equipped and luxurious vehicle. But it is priced with the most elite luxury cars at a base of 65K US for the 8, and 95K US for the 12. I would have a hard time shelling out this kind of cash for an unproven ride. If I were going to spend it, I would still eye the Audi A8 before leaning towards the Phaeton. But, would lean towards the Phaeton before the BMW 760 or the MBZ S600... Mostly because I am a cheap skate. Of course for our needs... A sedan is out of the question and that's why we have a Touareg...

[izzyloveslizzy]

True. I wholeheartedly agree, Corey. There's no reason spending $90K+ on a VW. It just doesn't make sense. Especially when you could get equivalent performance and far better dynamic superiority and luxury from more established leaders in this segement, such as the 7 series or the S-Class or the A8. The quality and equipment spec is definitely beyond insanity as far as luxury goes, and I'd take the Phaeton over the Lexus LS any day, but VW has to do much better if it wants to compete in that segment. Besides, look at the car.... It's looks like it's Passat's richer cousin on steroids. Even though it looks awesome, I think they have to make a much more original design just to make people forget about VW's other much more mediocre cars like the Passat. Until they fix what's essentially wrong with the car's soul (not it's package), they should probably just forget about any future idiotic decision-making about hyper versions of their current models, such as an 'R' version of the Phaeton or the Wolfsburg Jetta or W8 Passat.

[cstavaru]

Maybe there are people who want something different and still afordable. Today, every man with money owns a 7 or an S. Maybe some men would prefer something to stand out from the crowd. And they choose a Phaeton.

[skyline_r34v]

For an $80,000 luxury sports sedan the handlin sucks and its heavier than a damn school bus.

The engine isn't too shabby but u'd need a nascar motor jus to get decent performance numbers.

Even if u did put in a "nascar 700-900hp" motor all it would help with is acceleration.

Still does nothing for its pityful handlin and cornering ability.

My opinion of this car is that it sucks and i'd buy ne of those compared 2 it be4 i buy it.

[GIR]

I don't know about how the Pheaton handles and such and what kind of options it has. Infact this is the first time I will publicaly say something about it.

I have just 1 thing to say about the pheaton, no matter how good it is, it still costs 80k (for a VW). If I have 80k to spend I will surely not spend it on a VW. When people ask me what kind of car I drive and I say VW then the first thing they will think of is a Golf, Polo or Pasat.

But if I say I drive a MB then it won't actually matter wether it's a A, C, E or S Class. Lets be honest part of driving a car is the prestige that comes with it and a VW doesn't bring much prestige.

If you have a MB then people will say you're a stinking rich bastard. If you have a BMW then people will say you have a fast car and won't dare to pick fights on the highway. If you have a VW... well people won't have much to say will they?

I think the recent exploring most automakers have been doing is a very bad idea. Over here we have a saying: "Shoemaker stick to your job". Everybody should just stick to what they do bext. VW has had a great success with the Golf, Pasat and more recently with the Bora. They should just stick to those.

[paldi]

You guys are analyzing this to death. How often am I gonna go to a party and get into a discussion about my car? But what amazes me is that the people I meet always do a double take when they see PHAETON on the rear deck. Everyone seems to know about the car! Amazing.

I'll drive the big honker every day with a smile on my face as big as Texas! Think of a land yacht, a big, luxurious car that's fast as scoot, has 4 wheel drive, tremendous stereo system, perfect climate control system, award winning seats, and it looks like a sleek wench!

Every big Mercedes is like a smaller one on steroids.

My land yacht doesn't feel heavy when I drive her. It is lighter than the Bentley Flying Spur. :-)

[paldi]

Love those parktronic sensors, and the sport mode on the air suspension, and the air cooled seats, and the sat navigation, and the no draft airconditioning, and the DSP radio, and the dual pane glass, and the wood in the interior, and the legroom, and the MPG, and the acceleration...

[LateNightCable]

Uh... Congratulations?

[paldi]

Thanks, I guess I didn't really announce it? Three weeks ago I took delivery of a 2004 leftover. Untitled and driven by the owner of the dealership - had 10k miles, loaded with every option. I love it but wonder if it will be given some more development or just fade away. At the price I paid, it's a winner all the way. The sticker was $73,500. I won't change much, maybe wheels, driver door panel, debadge/rebadge, maybe dechrome. Gotta do some software changes - the seat belt dinger is driving me crazy. This car gets a lot of looks. Drives very well with a bit less air in the tires. Should be lowered a hair too.

[bleh]

nice

[LateNightCable]

The ironic thing is that ten years from now, the old DeLorean will be worth more than the Phaeton.