The AMG Viper?

[Shaunt]

Since Mercedes merged with Chrysler, I have been hearing some talks of the AMG tuning the Viper, and making it into a automatic.

Now a automatic Viper would be horrible, but AMG tuning it is very good.

Does anyone else have any information to add so I can read. I am really interested in seeing what happens.

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Hallo Shaunt,

 

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[Gast RolandK]

I can't really imagine that AMG will tune the Viper. The Viper is a car that was not very successful in Europe due to the bad window system. It is not good for the daily trip.

And that's very important for an AMG car.

Roland

[Seb2]

Rolandk tell me more of the window system never heard of it?. Right AMG works mainly for europe market automatic is not so popular as the 8l v10 here.

[Gast RolandK]

The Viper doesn't have real windows. It only has plastic windows which you have to fix everytime you want to close them or you can stow them into the trunk.

Roland

[xilica]

the viper has very bad gas mileage, AMG shuld tune it up for more sales in the car

[Ze]

Who buys a Viper doesn´t care about the window or the gas mileage All I know it´s that there´s no better car than viper 8)

[thepolarfoxqx]

First off, the new viper looks like an oversized S2000. Second, the europeans know about class, refinement, and understatement, so their great sports cars, the 911 Turbo, E55, C32, M3, M5, etc. are usable as daily drivers, get decent mileage, and look just as good at a drag race as they do at the opera. You can take 3 freinds with you in one of those to impress them with its performance. And those of you who go "oohh - ahhh - 8.3L V10!!! keep in mind that that uses the same block and head (pushrod) design that debuted in the dodge 360 (the engine the V10 is based on) nearly 50 years ago. So with 8.3L of displacement, it can muster 500 hp, handles poorly, and looks between japanese and tacky. Now the new M5 will make 550hp with its 5.5L ultra high tech V10, and will have a better power to weight ratio - for about the same price

Why would you buy an antiquated, ugly, impractical, tacky viper?

plus, I hear the gas mileage sucks. I also here the M5 has better windows.

[thebigsicilion]

I understand that everyone is entitled to there own opinion but have you ever driven a viper. Probably not based upon your comment on the gen 1 window problem that was corrected in 1997 which was 5 years ago. The 2nd gen vipers are completely differant in from the 1st gen. I not going to list all the differances here.

You mention great European sports cars. None of the cars you listed are even true sports cars except the 911 turbo. You think a m3 is a sports car? It cant even run the quarter mile in a respectable time. The m5 is nicer but a waste of 90k. Its a dog as well, I run circles around them.

You said the europeans know about understatements in vehicle design. If thats the case would the new lamborghini be an understatement? I think not.

[thepolarfoxqx]

The M5 is a nice car. For next year it gets a 550hp V10, which will give a better power to weight ratio than a viper - a dog? The M3 is only 45,000 dollars, it is faster to 60 than a LS1 corvette - not a bad deal. The MB SLK32 runs to 60 in 4.61 seconds - which is only .3 seconds slower than a viper - and the SLK32 has only 6 cylenders and an automatic transmission. None of them look like they stole their headlights from a Camry. In fact, the same man designed both of them. Curious. Oh, and the fact that the 2003 Viper makes 500hp from 8.3L - that is 60hp/L - to put that in perspective - my Suzuki XL-7 makes 183hp from 2.7L - that is 68hp/L, A BMW M3 makes 333hp from 3.2L - that is 104, the supercharged SLK32 makes 349hp from 3.2L - that is 109, and the Porsche 911 Turbo makes 415 from 3.6L - that is 115hp. Now if the Viper were as efficent as the 911 Turbo - it would make 957hp - nine hundred and fifty-seven. Hmm, that is a lot more than 500. Maybe if the Viper engine were half way modern, it wouldn't be shamed in specific output by all of its competitors - even cars that are 1/5 of its price. Do you really need 505 cu. in. to go fast - or is it just to feel good about yourself?

[silvertabone]

Whats with the infatuation with Horsepower per Liter and Viper bashing? Your suzuki may have 68hp/L, but can it compete with a Viper? So what is the point? The big advantage that the Viper has over some of the cars that you list is potential. 900hp out of an 8.3 V10 is not a difficult task, and many of the vipers out there have been modified to utilize this potential. With the wheelbase, availbility of aftermarket parts and suppliers, relative availibility of Vipers in general (at least here in the U.S., I dont know about other countries), and generally low priced parts - there is HUGE potential to be found within the Viper. No M5 that I have ever heard of (street legal) is going to be able to fight a Hennessy Viper. 1.04g with 0-60 in 2.7 sec. vs. The fastest BMW I know of - BMW Hamann 6.1L V12 which is 0-60 in 4.7sec. (not a tremendous difference from the 8.3L V-10)Of course, they do make a 4sec. M3, but that cant compare with a viper's size, its a totally different class. Now, to compare efficency with a 911 turbo, turbo is the key word there. If you didnt catch it, Vipers are N/A cars... now with a twin-turbo they are reaching your "957 hp" and higher. The Hennessy itself is just over 800hp. In response the the quesiton, No, you do not need 505 cubes to go fast, but fast is fast, regardless of how you get there - you choose your way, we will choose ours.

Also, as almost every major company has observed, the new Viper is most similar to the Chevy Corvette C5... which of course, was designed (1995) before the S2000. So perhaps the S2000 is a bad copy of the Corvette.

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Hallo Shaunt,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für US Cars (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

[djfux69]

hennesy viper priced around 170,000.. thats way over the list price of the car.. and it is worked. it puts out 800hp.. that is horrible.. plus all the parts for it are incredibly expensive so i dont know what u are talking about the parts being low priced.. an engine that size needs to be modernized. but truthfully an engine that size is rediculous... its like saying mine is bigger.... but what have we heard over and over again??? its not the size that counts its how u use it.. and they used it very poorly.. like fox said 60hpp/l is horrendus.. its all about the tuning..

and bigsilicon u said u run cirles around m3s and m5s.. how??? do u wait till they are parked.. the m3 runs a 13.3 1/4 mile m5 runs a 13.0 and the viper gts runs a 13.7... why do u think that the viper has a respectable time and the others dont??? i drove the viper gts and truthfully... dissapointed

another thing.. the s2000 is an awesome car. not too many 2.0 4i that put out 240hp

[silvertabone]

Ok, I was not saying that the Hennessy parts are cheap, you are paying for the name. I was saying that Viper parts in general are cheaper than most high caliber cars. Also, I was not saying that the S2000 is not a good car, just simply that I assure you that the Viper was not designed to replicate the S2000. Personally I like and respect the S2000, they are a great roadster cars and are a helluva lot of fun to drive. If I didnt have my Camaro, I would think of the S2000, in fact I did think about it. Sure, Hennesy is expensive, but without the name, that is a $100,000 car, which is a few grand shy of a Porshe 911 Turbo. Its all about preference.

[bleh]

Who buys a Viper doesn´t care about the window or the gas mileage All I know it´s that there´s no better car than viper 8)

Read more. Talk less. If you heed my advice you may not be such a biggot.

[Shayon201]

First of all who ever started the whole AMG thing about tuning the Viper dosent know shit about cars. AMG is ONLY for mercedes, they would never tune an american car. Even if they did, it wouldnt be a viper anymore.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Everyone who drives needs to care about gas mileage and windows. Going fast is optional, using a disresponsibly large amount of gas is not. Furthermore, you endanger peoples lives when you can't see them, and do some hot-dog manouver. A car is worthless if it does not have the essentials down. You have to start with a practical vehicle, then make it fast, not start with a racecar, and try to adapt it for the street.

That is why a porsche 911 and chevy corvette are easily better cars than a viper.

[silvertabone]

Whoa... Why not start with a racecar? Almost all high performance cars get their design and technology from race cars. Look at the Ferrari Enzo, Porsche 911 GT's, Panoz Esperante, etc. These cars all took race proven techniques and approaches and converted them to street use ( a much cheaper way of going about it ). First, prove them on the track, give them validity, them spend the $$ to implement them in production cars. If it works in a race car, it'll work on a street car, but it wont work the other way around. Almost all of the current automobile technology is based on some type of race-proven trials.

[thepolarfoxqx]

if you start with a racecar, the issue of course is that you are driving it on the street. All things that have to be primary considderations in a street car have to be afterthoughts on a car designed for the track, and modified to go on the road. Safety, comfort, visability, efficency, dependability, etc. A porsche 911 turbo is not a race car modified for the street, it is a fast car designed from the ground up as a road car, do you know of any race-car turned street car that can best a 911 turbo?

[silvertabone]

Well, I wasnt talking about the 911 Turbo, I was talking about the GT1(especially) - which is clearly a race car. It may be a 911 in style and SOME small aspects, but for all intensive purposes - a pure race car. Ok, cars that started as race cars that can best a 911 turbo:

Saleen S7 - started as a race project, even the first tame ones werent street legal - they had to tame quite a bit to make it legal.

Shelby Cobra Coupe

BMW M1

Counsiler

Pontiac Aztek

There are not very many admittedly.. but here we are talking about first year productions meant especially for racing. BUT, many of the present supercars are based and incorporate technology developed for racing. There are tons of examples: Ceramic brakes- developed by porsche and raced for a year on GT, a year later became $7,000 option on 911's. Others include Carbon fiber, Vented Discs, a HUGE amount of tire technology is developed by racing. There is plenty, Seriously, do you think the McLaren F1 is more of a race car or a street car?? It may be a street car, but fundamentally, it really isnt. If I took an Indy car and raised it, threw in an airbag and two bumpers - slipped on an exhaust and four wheel covers - would it be a street car or a race car? This can be said for so many "street" cars - Ferrari F40, F50, Enzo, Porsche GT1, Panoz Esperante, Pagani Zonda, Porsche 962 - All of these are just street legal race cars. But you make a great point about safety and visability, as far as comfort and efficiency goes - I think that If those are on the developers list, they are near the bottom. My only point is that a good amount of supercars are 80% race car and 20% street developed, and car companies pride themselves on it. If I just paid a quarter mill on a car and they told me it was tested on the backroads of Detroit, I really prefer Nurenburg, but I understand what you are saying. Just kidding about Aztek.

[kleinefisch]

lamborghini counach is another example. it was made to go fast, but driving that car sucked. visiblilty is horrible, the clutch and shifter are really heavy, but it went like a bat outta hell.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i fully support using racing technology in street cars, but I think you should start with a car designed for the street, and integrate the racing technology into. A "best of both worlds" situation if you will.

[BURNER03]

TheEnzo is no race technology because it has a Corvette based body and engine. I know this be ause I worked on it, dont get me wrong it is fast but it is fiberglass and has a elaborated Corvette engine. SO dont get confused!!!!!!!!! 8) :x :roll:

[thepolarfoxqx]

i am afraid YOU are horribly confused.

the enzo has a 65 degree V12 - dual overhead camshafts, the corvette is a 90 degree v8 - pushrod/rocker arm layout. they share nothing in common.

why would ferrari be using chevy technology. Also - A ferrari Enzo is carbon fibre composite - which is pressed - not spun like fiberglass.

A ferrari enzo can trace its chasis layout and suspension design directly to the ferrari F1 cars. The engine shares technology as well.

Anyone could take a look at a corvette and an enzo and tell you there is nothing in common there.

the thought of the two being connected is absurd.

[GIR]

Most americans don't admit it because they are blinded by their patriotism but american engines are the worste (inefficient) engines available.

The only reason the viper has such a big engine is to fuel american ego's which leads you to believe you have a fast car but infact you don't. AMG, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. could make an engine of equal size but they don't. You know why? Cause the performance gain just doesn't add upto the compremises. Most of their V8's can top the engine in the viper so there real is no need...

This is a fact everybody knows, now get over your selves.

[thepolarfoxqx]

as i metioned - a 5.7L V8 corvette has a better combined fuel efficency cycle than the 3.2L I6 M3, 3.2L S/C V6 SLK32/C32, better than the 5.0L M5 by a lot, better than a 3.2L F6 boxster, and better than a 3.6L F6 911. If fuel efficency is your biggest concern, go buy a ford ka or a honda civic.

yes a dodge V10 is stupidly large (i am really hoping that dodge puts their 5.7L Hemi-V8 in viper someday). Does it really matter how you get the power so long as it works? A 4.6L DOHC supercharged SVT cobra equals an M3 in fuel efficency, acceleration, bests it in handling number, and has equal refinement to go toe to toe. Furthermore, it has a world class interior (many parts were sourced from the jaguar parts bin), and it costs signifigantly less. A porsche 911 (non turbo) is slower than a corvette, costs more, equals it in handling, it does have a nicer interior, but somehow has worse fuel economy?

you call a naturally aspirated corvette V8 stupidly large - but have no issue with a supercharged 5.5L V8 or twin turbo 5.5L V12 in an AMG?

Like it or not, american sports cars are coming of age, and quickly becoming world class.

[GIR]

First of I would like to apoligize for me being rude... the mods edited it out but anywayz, for the people that did see my words sorry.

Yes the American car industry is coming of age very fast I agree and the industry has rolled out a few impressive cars.

I don't have anything against the new Corvette Z06 just that I don't like roadsters. But the AMG V8 5.5 pulls a 500hp at 6500rpm and delivers a torque of 700Nm at 2.750rpm. The Corvette Z06 pulls 405hp at 6000rpm en delivers a torque of 542Nm at 4800RPM.

Despite the corvette engine being a little bigger... the AMG engine delivers better performance and fuel economy. Mercedes however has a reputation of making big and sturdy (thus heavy) cars which give the engine some extra workload.

I've been having second thoughts about the new CL65. I mean yes the V12 has a nice performance (1000Nm at 2000rpm wauw) but the price for it is just to high. I really don't know why Mercedes made this engine. I guess it's more a showcase model then a model ment for mass production, like a my gender is bigger then your gender thing. But still the performance they squeeze out that V12 6.0 is amazing to say the least.

There are a few examples where American cars pass European or Japanese cars in performance, handeling, comfort and luxury, unfortunatly this is more an exception then a rule and in almost all the cases they were help by a european manufacturer, overall European and Japanese cars still come out on top. The American car industry has a trackrecord of making inefficient cars and this is only because of the American way of life. Americans like to have big cars with big engines and don't care about fuel economy, you really can't blame the industry for giving the people what they want (thus American cars are suited for American people).

In this example the Dodge Viper is the inefficient car I have ever seen. A V10 8L which can only pull 450 hp at 5200 rpm and deliver a torque of 490 at 3700 rpm is horribly horribly wrong. As said in this thread this engine has more potential (hennessey venom upgrades) and can only be reached after lots of money is pored into the car. The hennessey upgrades aren't as common as some people here might let one to believe, according to the hennessey site they've only built 4 viper hennessey machines to date. The hennessey upgrades are like a racing project turned commecrial, as exclusive as it gets. Still strange that Dodge can't get max power out that engine and a company like hennessey has to come into play to boost it upto max.