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McLaren M 6 B als Strassenversion

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CountachQV
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NIcht zu vergessen die Nachbauten eines gewissen Herr Sbarro...

Deltabox
Geschrieben

Nicht das ich wüßte. Sbarro hat soviel ich weiss nur Nachbauten vom

Ferrari P4 - Lola T70 - und Ford GT40 gemacht, kein McLaren.

capecobra
Geschrieben

solch ein auto ist gerade in holland im angebot:die meisten repliken wurden von tornado hergestellt.die fahren mit einem chevy motor richtig gut.der wagen in NL hat leider einen rover v8,geht trotzdem gut.

gruss capecobra

capecobra
Geschrieben

übrigens dies ist ein mc laren m6 GTR.

Erator
Geschrieben
übrigens dies ist ein mc laren m6 GTR.

M6 B GT :wink:

Erator
Geschrieben
übrigens dies ist ein mc laren m6 GTR.

ok. ich muss nach einem sehr langen und netten Telefongespräch mich geschlagen geben. Ich dachte ich hätte Ahnung :lol:

Aber man(n) lernt bekanntlicher Weise nie aus.

Ich finde capecobra hat ganz schön Hintergrund Wissen. Freue mich auf weitere nette Beiträge von Dir!

See you in 08/07 :-))!

capecobra
Geschrieben
ok. ich muss nach einem sehr langen und netten Telefongespräch mich geschlagen geben. Ich dachte ich hätte Ahnung :lol:

Aber man(n) lernt bekanntlicher Weise nie aus.

Ich finde capecobra hat ganz schön Hintergrund Wissen. Freue mich auf weitere nette Beiträge von Dir!

See you in 08/07 :-))!

danke,danke!!!!na so ein bisschen was sollte man schon wissen beim bauen.würde mir gerne mal das laufende projekt anschauen wenn möglich.

was für ein getriebe war in eurem auto in welches nun das rbt kommt?gruss cc

Erator
Geschrieben
danke,danke!!!!na so ein bisschen was sollte man schon wissen beim bauen.würde mir gerne mal das laufende projekt anschauen wenn möglich.

was für ein getriebe war in eurem auto in welches nun das rbt kommt?gruss cc

ZF 25 DS 2 mit einer 3.2 Achse. Das neue hat eine 4.2 Achse, allerdings mit anderen Gangabstufungen. So können die 300 immernoch erreicht werden. Das neue Projekt könnte evtl. in 08/07 dabei sein!

83pantera
Geschrieben
ZF 25 DS 2 mit einer 3.2 Achse. Das neue hat eine 4.2 Achse, allerdings mit anderen Gangabstufungen. So können die 300 immernoch erreicht werden. Das neue Projekt könnte evtl. in 08/07 dabei sein!

Ich habe beim DS 2 auch die 4.22 Achsübersetzung - für die CH ideal, aber die die BAB ist der 5. viel zu kurz; da fahre ich immer am Begrenzer. :(

Was kosten momentan bei RBT die Gangräder?

Wenn ich nächstens einen Stroker einbaue möchte ich auch gleichzeitig den 5. verlängern.

Erator
Geschrieben

Was die Zahnräder kosten kann ich Dir nicht sagen.

Es soll jetzt dann bald eine ZF-Classic-Abteilung in Friedrichshafen geben. Die können Dir auch vielleicht helfen.

capecobra
Geschrieben

hallo olaf,wenn du mal mehr von den gt40 in action sehen willst schau nach bei

www.motorevival.de ,dem stadtparkrennen hamburg 2006.

gruss chris

pterps
Geschrieben
solch ein auto ist gerade in holland im angebot:die meisten repliken wurden von tornado hergestellt.die fahren mit einem chevy motor richtig gut.der wagen in NL hat leider einen rover v8,geht trotzdem gut.

gruss capecobra

Es ist ein kunde von mir, auto sieht am moment sehr net aus, aber ich glaube er braucht nog viel arbeit:

http://www.speedon.nl/tornado-maclaren-m6.php

Lamberko
Geschrieben

Jetzt bin ich völlig verwirrt.

Unterschied zwischen original M6 B GT und M6 GTR?:???:

Meines Wissens nach (ohne Gewähr) wurden nur 2 M6B-GT in der McLaren-Fabrik hergestellt. Einmal ein Prototyp mit Chassis #02 (heute in schwarz) und der von Bruce McLaren (der rote "road-going").

Hier Bruce McLaren`s original M6B-GT:

nr1andoriginalqj5.jpg

...und noch der schwarze Prototyp:

photo0lm6.jpg

Alle anderen M6B-GT wurden erst nach dem Tod von Bruce McLaren und außerhalb der McLaren-Fabrik (allerdings mit Originalteilen) gebaut. Wobei man sicherlich darüber streiten kann, ob die später im Sinne von Bruce McLaren nach seinem Tod hergestellten M6B-GT überhaupt als "Originale" anzusehen sind!?!?!

Hinzu kommt eine sehr ungenaue Anzahl von "originalen" Nachbauten, die auf gecrashten oder "rebodied" M6B basieren und eigentlich keine echten GT sind.

"There are only 6 originals. The factory built 2-3 and 3-4 original roadsters were turned into coupes later. All but 2 of these cars were actually M12's"

Selbst heute könnte man relativ problemlos einen M6B-GT "original" bauen. Man braucht nur ein M6B-Chassis, denn die Kunststoffkarosse nebst Frontscheibe ist noch immer aus "using-the-original-molds" lieferbar.

:wink:

This article is from the McLaren website, originally published July 2000.

Words Eoin Young

Photography James Mann

Living The Dream

The McLaren F1 may be the world’s greatest roadcar, but it wasn’t the first supercar to emerge from the McLaren stable.Racing Line caught up with an enthusiast who has painstakingly recreated a McLaren M6GT, Bruce McLaren’s first attempt at a high-performance sportscar for the road.

When McLaren Cars decided to build the ultimate road-going supercar back in the late 1980s, it was surely with team founder Bruce McLaren in mind. Although the legendary Kiwi had lost his life in a testing accident nearly 20 years before, the 240mph F1 that bears his name is the realisation of a dream which the young McLaren had nursed since the late 1960s.

Having dominated the 1967 CanAm ‘big banger’ sportscar series with the M6, Bruce wanted to take on the world’s best at Le Mans – a race he’d already won for Ford – but met problems with homologation (the rules governing suitability of production cars for racing) and was forced to can the project. It was due to this disappointment that Bruce and his crew decided to pursue the roadcar angle.

With barely two years until that fateful June day in 1970 when Bruce lost control of one of his CanAm cars at Goodwood, it was no surprise that the M6GT project was still-born. In fact, only two cars ever made it off the production line; one was Bruce’s own works prototype OBH 500H, now in the USA. The other was sold to British enthusiast David Prophet. Despite the rarity of the original M6GTs, half a dozen ‘replicas’ exist around the world.

Enter Nigel Hulme. A vintage car racer with a definite feel for big bangers – he has raced in Lola’s fearsome T70 and AC’s equally evil Cobra for many years – Nigel decided to lovingly replicate the M6GT in a style of which, he believes, Bruce would definitely approve.

“I think ‘replica’ is a misused word,” says Hulme. “It really is a recreation of Bruce’s first GT. We used the same recipe.”

How did he decide on the ingredients? “Well, it was Trojan, the firm responsible for producing McLaren’s customer racing cars, that started the ball rolling. It offered a customer version of Bruce’s successful M6 works race car; anyone who wanted to race the M6 in a private capacity could do so, thanks to Trojan. There were 28 of these cars, codenamed M6B, built as rolling chassis ready to accept a Chevrolet V8 or whatever engine the customer wanted.”

It was one of these M6B customer cars that Hulme found languishing in bits in North America. “It was missing some of its corners but it was fundamentally what my father and I were after, the basis on which we would build a road-going coupé similar to Bruce’s original car. We found that Specialised Mouldings, the firm that created the glassfibre bodies for the M6 as well as other notable sports racers like the Lola T70 and Chevron B16, still had the original moulds. They kindly refurbished them for us, which really made the whole thing possible.

“Now we have this car, and I really love the shape. It looks right from all angles. It looks new even in today’s terms. It’s like a modern car, yet it was built in 1968!”

The Hulmes, father and son, set about sourcing parts from the US and built the car over a five year period. We imported a 5.7-litre Chevrolet engine because we wanted to have a unit that Bruce would have used in his roadcar. Plenty of torque, plenty of grunt...

Jimmy Potton, who was a mechanic with Reg Parnell’s F1 teams in the 1950s and 60s, did all the detail work on the Hulmes’ M6GT, but he sadly died last year. Clive Robinson, from Specialised Mouldings, did the bodywork, tidying all the shut-lines so that it looked like a roadcar and not just a race car. Triplex remade the windscreen and the remaining perspex windows were sourced in the USA. Wheels were a major problem on the recreation. The M6 racing car had 17-inch rims on the back and 10-inch rims at the front. For the roadcar the Hulmes settled for 16-inch rims all round in order to get the correct rolling radius needed with modern road tyres.

“We used a bit of poetic licence when it came to interpreting the trim, confesses Hulme. We opted for tan leather, brown carpets and red bodywork. The dashboard is trimmed in leather. The most important extra is the air-conditioning unit. It’s a real hothouse without it, what with that 5.7-litre Chevrolet throbbing away just behind your head and the cramped cockpit. The air-con would almost certainly have been a high priority on Bruce’s car, too.

The attention to detail on the car speaks for itself, but what is it like to drive?

“Terrific,” Hulme responds. “It has loads of torque and the ZF gearbox is superb with its synchromesh and close ratios. The car has lovely road manners. It’s docile but it’s quick.” Hulme thinks it would do about 180mph if pressed hard, but he doesn’t sound anxious to try it. Must be something to do with the painstaking care and long man hours he’s invested in recreating the dream of his boyhood hero.

The McLaren M6GT was clearly ahead of its time and it now seems, on reflection, rather a shame that such a hugely exciting vehicle was not given the chance to make as much of an impact as the later McLaren missile, the F1. Funny, too, that Bruce was actually embarrassed that the proposed price for his road car would be £6,000. Consider that the F1 costs more than 100 times that sum and you will agree, if we forget about inflation, that Bruce’s M6GT would have been a monster performer and a monster bargain, too.

Gordon Coppuck on the M6GT

M6GT designer Gordon Coppuck, now with the Arciero Wells ChampCar team in the USA, has clear memories of the days when he and Bruce McLaren were planning the GT version of their CanAm racer. “Our original intention was to race the M6GT at Le Mans, but when the idea fell on deaf ears because of homologation problems, we started to think about a roadcar.” McLaren and Coppuck went to Detroit for a meeting with General Motors styling chief Bill Mitchell, who arranged for Bruce to drive all their exotic roadcars on the GM test track. “Bruce came away convinced that there was nothing special about any of them. He thought we could do better ourselves. Back in Colnbrook we had a model of a GT body in the workshop and Bruce and I rubbed clay on it until we came up with a shape that we were happy with. We put a ZF gearbox in it and completed the car that winter of 1969/70. “I borrowed the car one weekend and I took it for a Sunday morning drive to Bournemouth with my wife. It ran beautifully. It really was ridiculously fast for a roadcar at that time. It weighed the same as a Mini and had 10 times the power! The acceleration was spectacular and the shape drew crowds everywhere. It wasn’t the easiest car to get in and out of and I remember it was the end of the miniskirt era and my wife was particularly shy of the onlookers around the car when we came out after lunch....

Robin Herd remembers the M6 McLaren tests

Bruce McLaren recruited Robin Herd from the aerospace industry to head up his fledgling design department and it was Herd who designed the first monocoque McLaren M6 CanAm sports racer on which the M6GT was based. It was actually an early ground-effect car, says Herd, recalling those early days with McLaren. The M1 CanAm car tended to understeer so we put a strip under the nose and Bruce reported after tests that the understeer was reduced. He was always after an advantage. On the way down to Goodwood, we kicked ideas about to get negative pressure under the car. The top of the nose was made slightly concave to reduce the understeer. But more importantly we contoured the underside of the nose to create negative pressure and, we hoped, downforce.

We knew we could get rear downforce with a wing but Teddy Mayer preferred a spoiler because he didn’t want it to be thought that we were copying Jim Hall’s Chaparral with its high wing.

On the day of the big test to see if we had created negative pressure under the car, we went all high-tech with a half-inch rubber tube taped to the bottom of the car leading to an anemometer gauge a pressure gauge which I was holding. I had crammed myself into the passenger seat and Bruce was barrelling into the first corner at Goodwood. We seemed to be going a million miles per hour but it was probably 80 or 90, when the gauge suddenly registered negative pressure. I had rather hoped that Bruce would be concentrating on staying on the road, but he spotted the change on the gauge and started whooping and shouting and laughing and banging my arm. We’d cracked it!

Bruce was in the queue for a Cosworth engine for Formula 1 in those days and he was anxious to do something interesting with his team. The idea was to get a commercial application for whatever we made, but it was more to do with having fun and that’s where the roadcar idea came from.

Replika-Hersteller:

- Der "Montage" von der Fa. Manta (Käfer-Chassis)

- Der "Coyote", eigentlich auch ein Montage, aber Corvair-Motor

(bekannt aus "Hardcastle and McCormick")

- "Tornado M6GT" aus USA

- "Marauder McLaren"

- Der "Mararn" from New Zealand

- Der "UVA" aus England

- Der "Tornado" von Tornado-Sports-Cars aus England

- .....

m12gtfournierxs6.jpg

McLaren M12GT

Would you buy a car if you had to persuade the dealer to put an engine in? Would you wait three years for delivery? Would you accept it without lights of any kind? Would you agree to no guarantee whatsoever? If you can answer "yes" to any of these, then you’re either an out and out nut or a very happy French Canadian named Fournier, who is the owner of an altogether unique and highly treasured means of transportation – the sole existing M12GT McLaren – a derivative of Bruce McLaren’s personal grand touring prototype that almost made it to the world’s car marts.

An attitude such as Fournier’s is scarcely representative of the masses’ choice of motoring media, for a keen interest in cars is not at all a commonplace among North American road users. Indeed, the reaction of virtually the entire car-driving population west of the Grand Banks and east of the Pacific can best be typified by that of a former employer of ours who shall remain nameless: "If I turn the key in the morning and it starts, that’s good enough for me!"

The enthusiast minority, on the other hand, has several methods of avoiding assembly-line obsolescence – designing and building their own cars, mortgaging their earthly wealth for a limited production "classic" or- the ultimate – amputating one’s right arm to acquire BMW’s Turbo, Coggriola’s Volvo, or Vega’s project XP-898. Each of these is possible, all require a modicum of knowledge (expertise even), but there is one inescapable common denominator – cash by the carload! Thankfully, there are still a few fortunates who aspire to the last avenue of vehicular "soul".

André Fournier is one member of this elite group. And he would appear to have all the necessary trappings; youth (he’s only 33), married (with two children) – though this is hardly a prerequisite – and varied business interests that include a travel agency, a dry-cleaning establishment, and Automobiles André Fournier Inc., a GM franchise dispensing Chevrolet and Oldsmobile cars, all in the city of Waterloo, about 65 miles south-east of Montreal. We rhetorically asked whether such accoutrements made paying for the upkeep of this pride and joy easier to bear! He laughingly replied: "Well, it does, naturally, but really, it’s the type of thing I like. I love cars, and, as far as that baby is concerned, paying for it hasn’t been a problem at all, because I’ve had as we say in French ‘beaucoup de plaisir" (kicks, if you will), in having it and owning it. It’s been very worth while."

Fournier’s involvement with "that baby" began almost four years ago as the result of a trip to the UK. He had heard that Lola were involved in project to put GT coupes on the road, but a visit to the Slough works found Eric Broadley’s offering a bit pricey. Fournier then reasoned that if Lola were doing this sort of thing, perhaps McLaren would be, so a short hop to Colnbrook commenced a bargaining session that was to last almost three years.

The first inkling that Bruce McLaren indeed had the more sporting motorist in mind appeared in the racing press in mid 1968, when it was rumoured that consideration was being given to the homologation of a coupe version of the McLaren-Elva sports racing car to compete with the Lola T70 in Group 4. The M6A had proved eminently successful in the Can-Am Series, so what better test-bed by which to assess the merits of the venture than the production line M6B?

The Kiwi Maestro had fond hopes of thrashing it out with Porsche, Ferrari; and Alfa, on the circuits of Europe, and besides, what was wrong with importing the old American "win-on-Sunday-sell-on-Monday" philosophy? Hearing this background story, Fournier promptly put down a deposit, but it was some time before his dream was to become reality. Revised rules for the FIA Group 5 World Championship for Makes had been altered to require a minimum of 50 identical models before homologation. And they had to be complete cars, unlike McLaren’s plans for the M6BGT which left the engine option to the customer. The longed-for homologation papers were, therefore, never to materialise, and the project started to die a slow death with Fournier’s deposit being returned.

Early in 1970, however, McLaren had a prototype prepared using one of 50 all-enveloping bodies (which had been delivered for homologation purposes) to surround a stock M6B chassis. It soon became his favourite project, and, amid speculation over an unusual vehicle making a hash of traffic in and around Walton-on-Thames, Trojan Cars released the news that they had in fact cobbled up a road-trimmed version "for evaluation purposes, as it is possible that Trojan may market a road-going version of the M6BGT." Back cam Fournier’s cheque! In his book, "McLaren’s thoughts at the time: "Building his own road car was a project that had interested Bruce as an ambition to be achieved when the company was well under way with the racing programme".

But such high hopes soon gave way to disaster when the personable New Zealander met his tragic and untimely end on June 2 while testing the new model M8D Can Am car at Goodwood. Much ground had been covered in preparing Fournier’s car, and, in fact, delivery was imminent (though without an engine, contrary to expectations). But, with Bruce’s death, negotiations naturally came to a halt, not to be resumed for almost two years. Finally the eventful day arrived, and it was one happy fella that met a BOAC cargo flight at Montreal’s International Airport to take over his charge, in May, 1972, almost three years after he had first broached the subject.

What Fournier got was a far cry from that originally planned. In the first place, the designation "M12GT" is entirely applicable (see table), and it appears that one of the available sets of M6BGT coachwork was shortened and widened to accommodate the M12 chassis. The M12 had been the 1969 production-line sports racer, and, though basically similar to the M6 series, most thought it a retrograde step. It nevertheless sold a plenty. Our subject vehicle seems to be the odd-ban on a quarter, and is, therefore, all the more exclusive. The prototype M6BGT was sold to Britisher David Prophet, who raced it for a time then converted it to a roadster. Its present whereabouts are unknown. One was prepared by Trojan for McLaren to undertake his feasibility study and a third was assembled in Croydon for Trojan to put on exhibition. The chassis number of Fournier’s M12GT is 50-04, which would seem to indicate that it is the fourth in a projected run of 50 which ties in nicely, but information is sketchy on the chronology of its predecessors. We learned recently that Bruce’s personal car will shortly find a permanent home in a museum in Auckland, New Zealand.

m12gtfournierslq6.jpg

Along with his prized possession Fournier received a set of M12 Group 7 coachwork (in case he ever wanted to race it, we expect), a large supply of spares, and an engine. This last was victory for the lucky owner, since Teddy Mayer had not been doing well disposed towards coming an engine supplier! But what was received was not as anticipated. Instead of the 302 cubic (Chevy V8, he found that a Webber carbed, 350 cu. Incher had been substituted. It turned out that this power plant had been built by the Californian Al Bartz and subsequently "McLarenized" at Colnbrook. Included in the specification were dry sump lubrication and a bhp rating of 575 at 8000 rpm – a bit long-legged perhaps, but more in keeping with the more leisurely pace of North American traffic. The whole question of performance is academic really, which you learn that Trojan’s John Bennett virtually guaranteed a 0-100 mph time of 8 seconds and a top speed of 225 mph!

Upon arrival at the Waterloo shop, a complete tear-down was dictated, not so much to correct as to examine! A full complement of legal lighting was fitted – an easy task since almost all the necessary wiring had previously been installed – but no special goodies were added. The services of race driver, Jacques Duval, were then called upon to give the sleek, bright red machine its shake-down cruise. Says Fournier: "The only problem we had of any consequence was in determining the proper oil to use in the differential. But we got hold of Roger Penske and he sent down a special blend that he was using in his Lola and it worked perfectly. We’ve had no trouble since."

There was a bit of an incident with the rev counter, however when Duval thought it showed that he was getting only 85 rpm at an indicated 12,000 rpm. Knowing no 350 cubed Chev anywhere ever turned that high, Duval pitted and a faulty tacho was soon discovered and quickly replaced.

If Fournier was surprised at the ease with which he obtained a license for his "baby" he has been more than a little bothered by the highway patrol. "It’s funny," he says, "but when you’re on the highway, or in the city, or somewhere, they stop you, not because you’re making too much noise or speeding, but only to have a look! Almost everywhere we go, even on the Auto route, the stop us. All they say is: "Oh, is that a McLaren?" That’s all. Then they let us go."

Though close to 700 miles were spent in the making of a special film, Fournier has added little more than 800 in the past year, weather permitting, for he does not drive in the wet, Goodyear "dry" racing tyres being what they are! He has used the car for several promotional schemes associated with his various businesses, and it was a high point of Auto ’73, Montreal’s fifth annual international auto salon, but he insists that he will only ever drive it for his own amusement. "There is lots of room for a passenger", he says "and usually, I drive around my home town with my two kids, or my wife, or a friend, and I have a lot of fun." Heat in the cockpit, no luggage space, and the lack of a spare tyre are the least of Mr Fournier’s worries.m12gt_fourniers.jpg

How does he place a value on such a conveyance, for the owner preferred not to reveal the purchase price? What would you pay for a thoroughbred, race proved road machine? A well known American is reported to have once said: We know André Fournier didn’t ask and it seemed crass to insist on an answer.

Story by Jim Mollet from Motorman 1972

wire brush
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post-63440-14435312122078_thumb.jpg

Die Marketingexperten irren!

Frauen wollen keine Kleinwagen!

Demnächst auf Ihrer Strasse!

capecobra
Geschrieben

der mc laren m1 macht halt immer wieder einen schlanken fuss!bin schon jetzt gespannt wie sich der wagen mit heckgepäckträger und koffer drauf nächstes jahr vorm dorint am ring macht.viel spass beim bau.c.c.

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