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Peloton25

Der McLaren F1 - Ultimative Diskussionsthema - Fragen und Antworten

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Peloton25   
Peloton25

Apologies for my English here, but I promise it is better than my German. ;)

To separate the discussion from the McLaren F1 photo thread I have created this topic. I will be happy to try and address any questions there might be about these great cars. Feel free to write in German or English and I will translate as necessary and hopefully get it right.

For starters, Datloke had some questions in the McLaren F1 photo thread:

Vielen Dank schon mal.

Gab es irgendwelche nennenswerte Unterschiede zwischen normalem F1 und Longtail Straßenversion.

Hab bis jetzt nur Infos zu den GTR Longtails gefunden die nach den Renneinsätzen vom Werk streetlegal gemacht wurden.

Oder gibt es gar keine wirklichen Longtails die von Anfang an nur für die Straße gedacht waren?

Sorry für OT aber ich wüsste grade nicht wo ich sowas sonst fragen sollte.

VG Datloke

No major significant differences with the F1 GT beyond the bodywork was the major change. This was done to homologate the longtail racers for the 1997 FIA GT race season and beyond. Some things in the interiors were trimmed a little better and the engine cover was a solid piece of carbon so rear visibility was limited just to what could be seen in the outside mirrors. The drivetrain was identical in the F1 GT road version to the one found in the standard McLaren F1 road cars with the same 627-hp and 6 speed manual transmission.

Unlike many short tail F1 GTRs, none of the longtail GTRs have been converted for road use. A couple of customers have inquired but both McLaren and Lanzante Motorsports who are the two primary caretakers of the cars these days have declined to undertake the job. There is too much that would be required to be changed in order to make them road legal and it is just too impractical to even try given that you would be sacrificing some of the originality of the car.

There are a few longtails that have had a passenger seat added to the left of the driver in order to facilitate guests on fast laps around the race tracks of the world. Here is the passenger seat in GTR #21R:

DSC_1841.jpg

The F1 GTs on the other hand were definitely intended for road use from the start and all three are registered in their respective locations. I don't believe any of them see too much use which is a shame. This is the Japanese GT prior to its refit getting some drive time.

058g8uq_1200.jpg

Hope this information helps. If I have left you with more questions, please let me know. :-))!

>8^)

ER

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Atombender   
Atombender

I guess everyone here who is even remotely interested in this car (or British cars in general) probably has at least a basic grasp of the language so if you think that your German blows too much go ahead in English.

Anyway McLaren cheated a bit by removing the rev limiter on their record drun (240 mp/h / 386,7 km/h, two runs in opposite directions within 1 hour), this is definitely not recommended for everyday use. There were probably some more tweaks but the record run was done with a prototype reving up to 7800 rpm (standard redline was 7500). The standard top speed was listed at 370 km/h / ~230 mp/h, still a remarkable achievement especially in the mid 90's, and even today it's still the fastest naturally aspirated production car.

However the engine had a lot more potential, for example the Enzo has a redline of 8000 rpm, it's not as streamlined as the F-1 but more stable at high speeds. If the F-1 were released 10 years later it would probably come with the optional wing and front splitter. And it would have a 7th gear since the engine is more than capable to pull it off. And LM specs (680 HP) :D

I'm excited that McLaren is back in the street car business and apparently working on a successor. Only if they use the same KISS* principle than they did on the F-1 but without compromising safety and comfort too much, but on the opposite end of an overbuilt Veyron.

*keep it simple/stupid (though personally I would prefer a radio over a CD changer).

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Atombender   
Atombender

BTW most if not all F-1 models are featured in the Test Drive Unlimited games, probably the closest thing to drive them all! (If you don't mind experiencing dragster-like acceleration, 100-200 km/h 4,5 seconds etc.)

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Peloton25   
Peloton25
I guess everyone here who is even remotely interested in this car (or British cars in general) probably has at least a basic grasp of the language so if you think that your German blows too much go ahead in English.

Thanks - the other option is to use a translator and convert my posts to German but it might not be pretty?

Anyway McLaren cheated a bit by removing the rev limiter on their record drun (240 mp/h / 386,7 km/h, two runs in opposite directions within 1 hour), this is definitely not recommended for everyday use. There were probably some more tweaks but the record run was done with a prototype reving up to 7800 rpm (standard redline was 7500). The standard top speed was listed at 370 km/h / ~230 mp/h, still a remarkable achievement especially in the mid 90's, and even today it's still the fastest naturally aspirated production car.

They did cheat, as you say, but they did nothing to hide that fact. The reason for removing the rev limiter was because during Andy Wallace's second run when he touched it the car jolted quite a bit and it was very unsettling. If nothing else it needed to be removed for safety reasons, not to mention the fact that the car was still making additional power beyond 7,500.

The other small details that most people don't know about (and you could consider this cheating too) is that the windscreen wiper was removed, the gaps around the small bonnet opening and turn signal lights were taped over with clear tape, and the front license plate was a sticker, not a real flat faced license plate. All of these things aided the top speed effort a bit, but were also done as a measure of safety. At those speeds having the air rush under the front bodywork and create lift where it shouldn't could have been devastating. They did not go so far as to remove the outside mirrors which I am certain Jaguar did in a failed attempt to reach 220 mph. I think Koenigsegg may have done something similar in their own top speed attempt.

Here's a photo of XP5 on track at Ehra Lessien where if you look closely you can see the wiper is missing and the plate wraps around the nose of the car. The tape for the shut lines is not present here.

920315b.jpg

As for your hopes for the F1 successor I have many of the same but unfortunately the need to build a car that satisfies government safety regulations for all of the important markets around the world will surely introduce compromises. I have met several members of the development team and I know they are passionate about building the absolute best car they possibly can. I can't wait to see the results of their efforts. :)

>8^)

ER

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Atombender   
Atombender

Safety regulations and also emission standards. The USA is (still) the most important market after all.

Here's a video of the prototype run

Absolute top speed was 391 km/h but only the average from two runs counts (the Veyron SS had an absolute top speed of 434 km/h).

The XJ 220 was officially recorded at 349,9 km/h driven by Martin Brundle. Still beyond the claimed 220 mp/h = 354 km/h but hey, Jaguar already cheated on the XK 140 which would only reach 140 mp/h with C-Type cylinder heads 8) Of course the XK 150 didn't come anywhere near 150 mp/h.

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Luxusburg   
Luxusburg

Peloton,

do you know where all the F1s in Europe are located?

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Datloke   
Datloke

Thank you Peloton for open this thread and answering my questions.

You wrote that there are no streetlegal versions of the Longtail GTR and i think that is not true i found some text, picture and video material (I´m not sure but maybe Tiff Needle drove one of those in a Fifth Gear episode some year ago but i can´t open the video on youtube.)

"A handful of GTRs were not only bought by private owners, but also extensively modified by McLaren to make them street-legal machines. In order to meet regulations, the cars were required to have their ride heights increased, as well as a change from a racing fuel tank and inlet to a more traditional tank and fuel cap. The air restrictor on the engine was also removed, allowing the BMW engines to produce their full potential power. Comforts such as the production car's sound deadening system, and even sometimes the two passenger seats, were left out of the car. These modified McLaren F1 GTRs are considered the ultimate versions of the road car, since they weigh considerably less than any of the other street cars. Several F1 GTRs in this form are still driven today."

Here a picture from a GTR Longtail with licenseplate registered in the UK.

File:McLaren_F1_GTR.jpg

But as i said at the beginning thank you! I appreciate that you share your knowledge about these beautiful car with us .

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netburner   
netburner

The orange longtail GTR is in the meantime back on the racetrack without a licenseplate and now painted in yellow and blue. So there is nowadays no longtail GTR on the road anymore.

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Peloton25   
Peloton25
Peloton,

do you know where all the F1s in Europe are located?

Roughly yes, but the cars tend to move around a bit more often than people would expect so my info is not always 100% accurate. Here's a slide that McLaren shared during a presentation back in August in Monterey that coincided with the Pebble Beach Concours which showed at the time the locations of nearly all the McLaren F1s in the world - not counted are some of the GTRs which are not road legal and a few other cars. Within a week of being produced it was already outdated as two cars had moved on to new owners and I know a handful of other cars that have moved since then as well. As you can see at the time though - they listed just 5 cars in Europe.

6127182660_c9bf71a665_b.jpg

Thank you Peloton for open this thread and answering my questions.

You wrote that there are no streetlegal versions of the Longtail GTR and i think that is not true i found some text, picture and video material (I´m not sure but maybe Tiff Needle drove one of those in a Fifth Gear episode some year ago but i can´t open the video on youtube.)

Yes - that text is referring to short tailed or standard body McLaren F1 GTRs of which there are a total of 18 in the world with about half having been converted for road use and many actively driven.

Here a picture from a GTR Longtail with licenseplate registered in the UK.

The Wikipedia sourced photo is not showing up here but I know that car well. As netburner noted it now looks like this:

5955995930_b790d93cf9_z.jpg

While the CIA4 UK registration plate is a real UK plate this GTR was never actually converted for road use or registered. The previous owner of this GTR had a desire to convert this car for road use but despite owning the car for nearly a decade the job was never undertaken. The fitment of the license plate managed to confuse a lot of people - not sure why that was done but I'm positive its appearance there is not confirmation the conversion was real.

But as i said at the beginning thank you! I appreciate that you share your knowledge about these beautiful car with us .

I too appreciate the discussions. I hope we can continue. :-))!

>8^)

ER

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Atombender   
Atombender

Datloke: Rechtsklick -> Grafikadresse kopieren :wink:

800px-McLaren_F1_GTR.jpg

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Atombender   
Atombender

Only 5 in mainland Europe seems low to me. And there have been 2 in New Zealand?

The Canadian owner should be Lawrence Stroll and I guess the Mexican owner is Carlos Hank-Rhon.

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netburner   
netburner

5 in continental Europe seems to be really low.

Another question to Peloton: In this video you can see a yellow prototype (foglights at front), which one is it?

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HOLZ   
HOLZ
5 in continental Europe seems to be really low.

Another question to Peloton: In this video you can see a yellow prototype (foglights at front), which one is it?

Looks for me like the repainted clinic model. A mockup without a working drivetrain. Painted in silver it was used for the first presentation in Monaco, catalog pictures and to show the customer the look of the finished car.

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RolandK   
RolandK

Bitte denkt daran: Unsere offizielle Forensprache ist deutsch. Ich würde Euch bitten, dass Ihr Euch daran zu haltet, wenn Ihr längere Gespräche führt.

Der Threadowner hat uns doch angeboten per Software die Texte zu übersetzen.:wink:

Danke.

Greetings to fabulous California.

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Luxusburg   
Luxusburg

Peloton: Weißt du wo genau diese 5 fahrzeuge in Europa sind(Land)?

Auch wenn sie oft wechseln vielleicht eine grobe angabe?

Soll ich das jetzt nochmal übersetzen oder langt das so für den übersetzer?:lol:

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Atombender   
Atombender

Oh my god, Babelfish here we come :D

Dann sollte der Themenersteller am besten sehr aussagekräftige Bilder posten, bei der sich eine Erklärung erübrigt :wink:

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Datloke   
Datloke
Datloke: Rechtsklick -> Grafikadresse kopieren :wink:

800px-McLaren_F1_GTR.jpg

Mein Computer hat keine rechte Maustaste ;-)

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Peloton25   
Peloton25
Only 5 in mainland Europe seems low to me. And there have been 2 in New Zealand?

English: Keep in mind that was 5 currently at the time that the slide was created. There have been a total of 3 in New Zealand that I am aware of since the F1 was released. The first was the prototype, XP4, which belonged to Sir Roger Bhatnagar. He kept the car until 2000 when it came to the USA. Then chassis #049 was originally delivered to its current owner, Brian Whittaker. Finally, in mid-2008, Andrew Bagnall purchased F1 #018, one of two road car chassis which have been fitted with an LM-spec engine.

The number for Europe would not count the two GTRs (#18R & #26R) in the BMW Classics Collection Museum in Munich, nor the F1 GTR (#03R) in Dr Thomas Bscher's collection, nor the F1 GTR (#15R) that still belongs to Lindsay Owen-Jones in France, nor GTR #05R which had also been in France but is only now being converted for road use.

Deustch: Beachten Sie, dass bei 5 derzeit an der Zeit, dass die Folie erstellt wurde. Es haben insgesamt 3 in New Zealand, dass ich mir bewusst, da die F1 erschien am worden. Der erste war der Prototyp, XP4, die Sir Roger Bhatnagar gehörte. Er hielt das Auto bis zum Jahr 2000, wenn es um die USA kam. Dann Chassis # 049 war ursprünglich an den derzeitigen Eigentümer, Brian Whittaker geliefert. Schließlich, Mitte 2008 kaufte Andrew Bagnall F1 # 018, einer der beiden Straßen Auto-Chassis, die mit einem LM-spec-Motor montiert wurden.

Die Zahl für Europa würden nicht zählen die beiden GTR (# 18R & # 26R) in der BMW Classics Collection Museum in München, noch die F1 GTR (# 03R) in Dr. Thomas Bscher Sammlung, noch die F1 GTR (# 15R), die noch gehört zu Lindsay Owen-Jones in Frankreich, noch GTR # 05R, die auch in Frankreich gewesen, aber erst jetzt für den Straßenverkehr umgebaut.

The Canadian owner should be Lawrence Stroll and I guess the Mexican owner is Carlos Hank-Rhon.

English: Yes, Stroll actually has two cars - one a longtail GTR (#23R) in the FINA livery and the other an F1 road car which he has owned from new. The slide only counts the road car because the GTR is not road legal.

The Mexican owner should be Ricardo Vega-Serrador as he contacted me about the car prior to purchasing it. I also spoke with a previous owner of the car and we discussed Serrador having it. I think he would have corrected me if I were wrong.

Deustch: Ja, Stroll hat eigentlich zwei Kabinen - ein Longtail GTR (# 23R) und der andere ein Straßenfahrzeug, das er von neuen Eigentümer hat. Der Schlitten zählt nur die Straße Auto, weil der GTR ist nicht Straßenzulassung.

Die mexikanische Besitzer sollte Ricardo Vega-Serrador sein, als er mich kontaktiert über das Auto vor dem Kauf. Ich sprach auch mit einem früheren Besitzer des Autos und wir diskutierten mit Serrador es. Ich glaube, er würde mich korrigieren, wenn ich falsch waren.

5 in continental Europe seems to be really low.

Another question to Peloton: In this video you can see a yellow prototype (foglights at front), which one is it?

English: The answer below is correct. :)

Deustch: Die Antwort unten zu korrigieren. :)

Looks for me like the repainted clinic model. A mockup without a working drivetrain. Painted in silver it was used for the first presentation in Monaco, catalog pictures and to show the customer the look of the finished car.

English: It was also painted Burgundy at one point and there are reports of it being blue as well, though no photo evidence of that actually exists.

Deustch: Es wurde auch gemalt Burgund und an einer Stelle gibt es Berichte über sie blau ist und, obwohl kein Foto Beweis, dass tatsächlich existiert.

McLF1_Top125_014.jpg

Peloton: Weißt du wo genau diese 5 fahrzeuge in Europa sind(Land)?

Auch wenn sie oft wechseln vielleicht eine grobe angabe?

English: Not 100% - I often joke that I only cover North America, and have a pretty good handle on all the cars that are here.

As for Europe, the ones I would count are #007 in Geneva with Simon Kidston and #048 & #075 believed to be in Switzerland as well. Chassis #071 is the orange F1 with high mirrors that is in Germany - likely near Düsseldorf as it showed up last year at the opening preview of McLaren's showroom there. #047 is in the BMW museum I mentioned above.

Deustch: Nicht 100% - ich scherzen oft, dass ich nur auf Nordamerika und haben eine ziemlich gute Griff auf alle Autos, die hier sind.

Was Europa angeht, sind die, die ich zählen # 007 in Genf mit Simon Kidston und # 048 & # 075 angenommen, dass in der Schweiz als gut. Chassis # 071 ist die orange F1 mit hohen Spiegeln, die in Deutschland wird - wahrscheinlich der Nähe von Düsseldorf, wie es sich zeigte, im letzten Jahr bei der Eröffnung Vorschau McLaren-Showroom gibt. # 047 ist in der BMW Museums, die ich oben erwähnt.

#071:

4967927999_96dd5bf267_z.jpg:-o:-))!

>8^)

ER

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Peloton25   
Peloton25
Bitte denkt daran: Unsere offizielle Forensprache ist deutsch. Ich würde Euch bitten, dass Ihr Euch daran zu haltet, wenn Ihr längere Gespräche führt.

Der Threadowner hat uns doch angeboten per Software die Texte zu übersetzen.:wink:

Danke.

Greetings to fabulous California.

English: To hopefully make it easier for all, I will respond to questions in both languages as I have done with the previous post. :)

Deustch: Um hoffentlich machen es einfacher für alle, werde ich auf Fragen in beiden Sprachen zu reagieren, wie ich mit den vorherigen post getan haben. :)

Thanks/Danke!

>8^)

ER

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Atombender   
Atombender

Zwei Kabinen :D

Mind you, I am not laughing at you but at the program you're using for translation.

So two standard F1's have been upgraded to LM specs, that means 680 HP and maybe carbon brakes and no passenger seats?

There are also several GTR's who look like LM's.

---

Also sind praktisch zwei Standard-F1's auf LM-Spezifikation umgerüstet worden, das heißt 680 PS und eventuell Keramikbremsen und keine Beifahrersitze?

Es gibt auch einige GTR's die wie LM's aussehen.

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netburner   
netburner
So two standard F1's have been upgraded to LM specs, that means 680 HP and maybe carbon brakes and no passenger seats?

---

Also sind praktisch zwei Standard-F1's auf LM-Spezifikation umgerüstet worden, das heißt 680 PS und eventuell Keramikbremsen und keine Beifahrersitze?

Die LM-Spezifikation wäre mit Beifahrersitzen! Nur die GTR hatten neben dem Fahrersitz keine weiteren Plätze (wurden allerdings bei der Umrüstung auf Straßenzulassung teilweise mit einem Sitz links ausgestattet).

The LM-specification is with passenger seats left and right! Only the GTR cars came with only drivers seat (although some cars that were converted for road use got a passenger seat at left side in that process).

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Peloton25   
Peloton25

Danke netburner. :-))!

Mind you, I am not laughing at you but at the program you're using for translation.

English: Okay - that was Google Translator - now we will try Babelfish. ;)

Deustch: Okay - das war Google Translator - jetzt wir Babelfish versuchen. ;)

So two standard F1's have been upgraded to LM specs, that means 680 HP and maybe carbon brakes and no passenger seats?

English: Only the longtail GTRs ever were fitted with carbon brakes. There is one F1 road car owner who has recently adapted carbon brakes to his car but they are of a different design than were used on any of the McLaren racers.

The two F1s that have been upgraded with LM-spec engines are these two below - #018 and #073.

Deustch: Nur die Longtail GTRs wurden immer mit Carbon Bremsen ausgestattet. Es ist eine, die F1-Straße Autobesitzer, die vor kurzem Kohlenstoff angepasst hat zu seinem Auto Bremsen, aber sie sind ein anderes Design als eines der McLaren-Fahrer verwendet wurden.

Die zwei F1s, die mit LM-Spec Motoren aktualisiert wurden sind diese beiden unten-# 018 und # 073.

pict00137wx.jpg

McLF1_Top125_115.jpg

There are also several GTR's who look like LM's.

English: Yes - at least five have been resprayed in Papaya Orange. That is almost unfortunate as it detracts from the uniqueness of the F1 LMs. Here is an image I made showing all five of them, plus a real F1 LM.

Deustch: Ja - haben mindestens fünf Papaya Orange resprayed worden. Das ist fast schade, da es von der Einzigartigkeit der F1 LMs lenkt. Hier ist ein Bild habe ich alle fünf von ihnen, plus eine echte F1 LM anzeigen.

Orange_GTRs.jpg

War Babelfish besser?

>8^)

ER

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netburner   
netburner
English: Chassis #071 is the orange F1 with high mirrors that is in Germany - likely near Düsseldorf as it showed up last year at the opening preview of McLaren's showroom there.

Deutsch: Chassis # 071 ist die orange F1 mit hohen Spiegeln, die in Deutschland wird - wahrscheinlich der Nähe von Düsseldorf, wie es sich zeigte, im letzten Jahr bei der Eröffnung Vorschau McLaren-Showroom gibt.

Chassis #071 is indeed in Düsseldorf, still with its first owner. You will find some more pics I made at the MP4-12C preview in Düsseldorf in 2010 in the "McLaren F1 Bilderbuch" thread.

Chassis #071 ist tatsächlich immer noch beim Erstbesitzer in Düsseldorf. Mehr Bilder zu dem Auto, die ich 2010 bei der MP4-12C-Vorschau in Düsseldorf gemacht habe, sind im "McLaren F1 Bilderbuch" zu sehen.

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Atombender   
Atombender

English: Yes - at least five have been resprayed in Papaya Orange. That is almost unfortunate as it detracts from the uniqueness of the F1 LMs. Here is an image I made showing all five of them, plus a real F1 LM.

Deustch: Ja - haben mindestens fünf Papaya Orange resprayed worden. Das ist fast schade, da es von der Einzigartigkeit der F1 LMs lenkt. Hier ist ein Bild habe ich alle fünf von ihnen, plus eine echte F1 LM anzeigen.

Yeah it's a rather cheap move to turn the cars into something that they aren't. Like removing the roof (and charisma) of a Daytona Coupé and turning it into a fake Daytona Spyder.

Ja ist eine ziemlich billige Methode, um die Autos in etwas zu verwandeln, was sie nicht sind. Wie von einem Daytona Coupé das Dach (und Charisma) entfernen, um es in einen falschen Daytona Spyder zu verwandeln.

Note: Babelfish is fairly understandable but funny at times.

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McLarenfreak   
McLarenfreak
Safety regulations and also emission standards. The USA is (still) the most important market after all.

Here's a video of the prototype run

Absolute top speed was 391 km/h but only the average from two runs counts (the Veyron SS had an absolute top speed of 434 km/h).

The XJ 220 was officially recorded at 349,9 km/h driven by Martin Brundle. Still beyond the claimed 220 mp/h = 354 km/h but hey, Jaguar already cheated on the XK 140 which would only reach 140 mp/h with C-Type cylinder heads 8) Of course the XK 150 didn't come anywhere near 150 mp/h.

Im nachfolgend aufgeführtem Video:

sind die Beschleunigungswerte des McLaren F1:

100 - 200 km/h 4,7 s (0-200 km/h = 7,9 Sekunden)

200 - 300 km/h 10,6 s (0-300 km/h= 18,5 Sekunden)

aufgeführt.

Gemessen wurde ab eine Geschwindigkeit von 100 km/h. Es wurde der beste Testwert von 0 - 100 km/h (3,2 Sekunden, Test Autobild) als Basis genommen.

In einem Beitrag von G. Murray in der Road and Track ist notiert, dass der McLaren F1 mit einer angenommen Leistung von 1001 PS 452 km/h errreichen würde. Um 407 km/h zu erreichen, benötigt

der McLaren F1 740 PS. (Road and Track Technikvergleich Bugatti Veyron vs. McLaren F1)

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