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mzaka

3 new mercs..check it out

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mzaka
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Letzter Beitrag:

wassup ya'll...

MB is launching 1: the E 60 AMG to mess with stinking Beemer's M5

2: the C 55 AMG just for the fun of it

3: the R Class to mess with stinking Range Rover

man i love mercedes

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GIR
Geschrieben

1. Nice, altho it would make much more sense to make a E65 then a E60. I wouldn't say MB can mess with BMW just by dropping a bigger engine into the engine bay, making better design then Bangle is another thing.

2. Don't believe it. the engine bay of the C32 is filled up as it is. I don't think they can fit a bigger engine in there. MB has always been big on comfort, safety and durability. I don't think the W203 can handle all that torque.

3. Why would they do that when they already have the G series?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

I'll have to with GIR.

The E65 cannot happen, mostly because there is no physical way to put a type 12 V12 engine into an E-Class chasis. It WILL NOT FIT. Easy as that.

The C55, why? The CLK55 only gets the 349hp naturally aspirated 5.4L V8, mostly for reasons of prestige, the C-Class chasis just can't handle the power of the supercharged V8s. Seeing as the supercharged 3.2L makes the same 349hp, why switch it to a heavier V8 making the same hp?

The G-Wagen already competes with range rover, in fact, it is the only vehicle that really can compete with land rover (anyone who just said landcruiser needs to go away), why make another vehicle for the same segment?

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

Another SUV line may make sense considering that the ML is rediculous and the G is a little pricey. Now whether it will compete with Rover's is out of the question, thats the G, but another SUV in the mix sounds good.

modou
Geschrieben

the E65 amg can happen. brabus tuning company have fitted a 7.3 ltr v12 in the old e class and they have also fitted a biturbo v12 in the new e class ( fastest saloon car in the world as quoted in guiness book of records)

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

Brabus doesn't have to meet federal crash test standards. Mercedes does. Mercedes would not sell anything they couldn't get the highest possible crash test scores on. The V12 is sufficiently long there would be a crumple zone of less than one inch inside the frame. The engine would get forced back through the firewall into the cabin. The E-Class isn't long enough, the hood is just too short to fit it up there safely.

LateNightCable
Geschrieben
The E65 cannot happen, mostly because there is no physical way to put a type 12 V12 engine into an E-Class chasis.

If they can fit six cylinders in a straight line in the engine bay of a 3-Series BMW, than theoreticly, with a bit of tinkering, you could fit another row of six under the hood of an E-Class Benz. But that would be way too much bother, so you're right, an E65 would probably never happen. A tuner on the other hand might think it was worth the bother.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

an e-class is a totally different layout of car than a 3 series, the engine in the three sits lower and rear of the front axle. In a colision, the narrow engine's mounts are designed to it will turn somewhat to the side, a wide V12 is not about to turn. A turbo type 12 is a lot bigger than bimmer's 3.0L I6. The firewall on a 3 series makes a U-shape, the engine gets up under the dash, an E-class would need a major front end overhaul before the Type 12 would fit in any decent way. It is already tight in S-Class. Why would they just jump to the V12 when they have detuned the V8 from 493 in S and SL to 476 in E class?

LateNightCable
Geschrieben

Indeed, it would take a major overhaul to the E-Class, and why bother with that when you already have a monster V-8 to work with?

I'm thinking that Mercedes would like to keep the Type 12 exclusive to the Maybach, but the temptation to use it in other cars is probably too great.

kleinefisch
Geschrieben

A v12 in the E class is probably not a possibility. The E class actually has two firewalls for added safety, they wouldn't sacrifice that for performance. I think that it would make more sense for mercedes to have made a v10, but now they have the 12, they certainly wouldn't, but it would've given them more options.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

i don't see why you'd need it. There is obviously more room for AMG to crank up the 5.4L V8 if they need to, that already fits, and is very very fast. They could get 550 out of the 5.4L if they wanted without any trouble. Still doesn't fix the fact that E55 is well over 700lbs heavier than E60 M5, but 700lbs isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Thunf
Geschrieben

700lbs heavier than the E60 M5???? What did Merc put on since last car exept for the kompressor and minor stuff? what is BMW going to remove from the M5 to get it that light? Will the frame be all-aluminium? I mean, the new M5 got a V10... will that engine really be lighter than the V8 of Merc? The old M5 was very very heavy, heavier than the E55 amg... will sound isolation suffer as a result?

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

here's how it goes.

the current body style E class that came out for '03 is well heavier than the old one. It is larger, more torsion resistent, and the interior is well nicer. The 5.4L V8 got a new bottom end, a reinforced 5spd auto, the supercharger and intercoolers, all combined, the E55 is tipping the scales around 4,300 lbs. Kinda porky.

The E39 M5 is a heavy car, just shy of 4,100lbs. The E60 although uses aluminum intensive construction, revised suspension geometry, and numerous weight saving materials. They are using a new sprayed foam noise dampening material, which is supposed to be of equal quality, but much lighter. Also, the 5.5L V10 will be signifigantly lighter than Mercs supercharged 5.4L V8, mostly due to the reported magnesium engine block bimmer is working on. E60 M5 is slated to tip the scales just shy of 3,700lbs. They shaved 400lbs off it, that isn't THAT amazing, but it is impressive, and should make a good deal of difference for the car.

Thunf
Geschrieben

Actually 4037 lbs for the '03 E55 amg (90% full tank, driver 166 lbs, 15.5 lbs luggage).

Similar condition witch are easy to compare:

Mercedes E200K: 3454 lbs. (Same condition as above)

BMW 520i: 3432 lbs. Unloaded

Mercedes E500: 3795 lbs. (Same condition as above)

BMW 545i: 3751 lbs. Unloaded.

What do we have? not a difference of 700 lbs on the standard sedans at least, but you mentioned the performance models... M5 and E55 amg.

Hmm, I have not seen an official weight of the upcoming M5 so far even If I really tried searching.. the M company of BMW must really change allot on the sedan to get it that lightweight with that big engine... that's for sure. I tried to compare the 330Ci (same weight as 330i) with the M3... M3 was heavier. M company does after all just modify the standard models... if the new M5 really will be that light BMW have put a major stake at the M company to allow it alter and remove that much weight from the standard models by BMW.

PS - I know this is a Merc forum. But talking of BMW, I have not ever mentioned this anywhere at any time... but I agree with most of you: The new models don't look good... what happened to the old designer? Chris is the new... and he's not living up to the funktionality status BMW is. It's Alfa status at BMW nowadays, design before funktion... damn I don't like that consept. I mean the new models don't even got door lists!!! YAAAK! :-?:o :roll:

daugbjerg
Geschrieben

2. Don't believe it. the engine bay of the C32 is filled up as it is. I don't think they can fit a bigger engine in there. MB has always been big on comfort, safety and durability. I don't think the W203 can handle all that torque.

www.autoexpress.co.uk have some info on the new C55 AMG. It will have a normally aspirated 5.5-litre V8 engine producing 367 hp, while the C32's 3.2-litre V6 will continue to produce 354 HP. There's also some info on the Audi RS4 (450 hp) and the new M5 (510 hp)

Will this newer end? hopefully not.

Thunf
Geschrieben

As if the new BMW M5 would be 700 lbs lighter than the current E55 AMG, that sounds very strange... I guess we have to wait and see, if a CLS version of the M5 comes it might be pretty light.

Even the E46 M3 CLS is suprisingly heavy, carbon fibre is used after all... that car weight as much as a 97' Mercedes C220 Diesel.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

here is the thing, we are opperating off of pre production numbers on M5. When it comes out, we'll see exactly how it falls. All i know is that RS6 and E55 are both sorrily obese.

P.I.M.P
Geschrieben

First of all there is a way to fit a v12 into an E-Class: BRABUS. But I don't think MB needs a v12 to compete with the new M5. They just need a V10 twin turbo. Second, if Mercedes wants to make a C55, they can make a W8 to save space, or a flat 8 cuz they save space but don't decrease displacement. The R-Class though IS happening. It has been in car magazines and the internet for some time.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

Well, the "BRABUS" with the V12 in there has NO crumple zone, If it were factory, it would be questionable as to whether it would pass most countries crash test standards. Mercedes isn't selling an unsafe car, they'd sooner it be slower.

As for they could just make a flat or W8, get real, for one car they will design and develop a whole new engine archetecture. Sure. Ok. And BMW is shoving their turbofan engine of the 717 in the next M5. Get reall. There isn't going to be a twin turbo V10 mercedes. BMW's naturally aspirated would still make as much power.

As for a C55, they've had a V8 in C-Class before (C43), and that one was smaller. Didn't work so well, the car handled like shit, the engine barely fit in the bay, and was a bear to do maintanance to, needless to say, they CHOSE to get rid of a V8 in place of the supercharged V6.

it isn't a matter of "oh, well the COULD do that. Either company COULD do whatever they wanted, but they don't for good reasons. An M car will never ride like an AMG, have seats, an inteirior, or the fit and finish of an AMG, an AMG will never handle like an M car, never have the sports feel, and likely won't be the better performer. They accpet this because it's their design philosophy.

And just so you know. BMW could M-Tune their V12, up to a likely 600hp+, and it would fit in an M5 about as well as a V12 fits in a brabus E65.

And for some perspective, Mercedes is getting 493hp from a 5.5L V8 driving high boost with a supercharger, and it is already heavily tweaked. BMW is pulling 500+ from a 5.5L without, so maybe they could just a bolt a supercharger on, what then?

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