2004 Ford Lightning Concept

[bleh]

depends on the car and having that extra piping would only serve a purpose for a diverter system. on some cars it is just rediculous to set up a diverter system depending on the positioning of the valve which has much to do with the layout of the engine.

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Hallo Mongrel,

 

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[djfux69]

tru but what im saying is that wouldnt it always be better to have some piping to run diverter? especially on big turbos with a lot of lag?

[bleh]

theoretically. there is still so much that i dont know.

[GIR]

So let me get this straight. You guyz are planning on spending 1k on a car which only costs 1,5k? That's smart.

And what I ment was to get the performance boost some people advertise you have to come damn near close to 9 to 10 psi, which means blowing your engine in the long run.

[djfux69]

acura integra gsr 180,000 miles, stock internals 10psi still running strong after 50,000 mile install. ill find the article. and by the way I wouldnt do it, im just saying those japanese high revving thingies are great cars to boost.

[bleh]

if you redo the internals the engine will not blow. you have to remember that since civics are so widely produced that parts prices are relatively cheap. rebuilding my motor would cost around $1k, but if you think about it this way, i can pick up my motor for well under $300 and if i were to blow the motor swap it out in a weekend, if i felt like getting an upgrade i could swap in an integra motor, transmission, and everything else and have more power. the integra motor is a direct swap and can also be done in a weekend. i dont feel like getting sub 30mpg so a turbo or a motor swap is not in the near future. im just saying its very possible and very affordable.

[GIR]

You know that's BS right? The electronic injection on that engine alone costs 300 euro so $300 for the whole engine... nope I'm not buying it.

And like I said if you want better performance, why not trade up for a better model instead of trying to screw up stuff yourself?

A weekend? You haven't done it that much huh? I used to do the job in 2 to 4 hours with my father.

acura integra gsr 180,000 miles, stock internals 10psi still running strong after 50,000 mile install. ill find the article. and by the way I wouldnt do it, im just saying those japanese high revving thingies are great cars to boost.

Let me guess... they dropped a huge sum of money into it, a sum for which you could easily buy a new car and made it run like that. I'm not saying it's impossible, heck regular servicing will probably become very regular, but for the money you'd be better of just buying a new car.

I'm not sure what amount exactly is required, I'll check with my brother tommorow, but I'm sure that if you wanted to get a decent added performance you'd sure as hell would have to drop in more then just 1k.

I for one am sick of the "you could do this or you could do that and make it go fast" arguments, specialy when it comes to chargers. Everytime I see a modded car with a turbo I think to my self: "Wow how nice, a turbo". My father spent a life time getting the tricks of the trade and there is no engine he couldn't tune to it's absolute top. People bolting on turbo's to their engines and claiming they have a fast car are a insult of his profession.

[djfux69]

civic engine are incredibly cheap. you can find tons of them for under 500 dollars. goto honda-tech.com. that integra i told you about had no money put into it other than than turbo and exhaust.

anf by the way, no one is insulting your father by saying they can make a car fast. some people, myself included, love tuning cars to make them faster. obviosly not all cars with turbos are imedietly 200mph machines, but to a lot of people its the only way they will ever get a fast car. i dont think you should criticize other peoples passions, after all , we are all car lovers here.

[LateNightCable]

You can actually get an old civic and turbo it for around 4 grand for the kit. with that kit you will go around 200,000 on stock internals putting down close to 300whp. very reliably.

With just a turbo kit, and no other modifications, you would really have to baby that car to get 200,000 miles out of it with no problems. A stock Honda sure, but a blown one, using the turbo to full effect - ( which you would be or else whats' the point ) - would naturally put a greater strain on a motor that was not designed to run that hard. I just can't see a turbo'd Civic motor being completely reliable to 200,000 miles.

You might think this was the Japanese Supercars forum, how did you all go from talking about Ford Lightnings' to blown Civics'? Well, this thread is 8 pages long, the tides often turn in 8 pages . Izzy would have a fit.

[GIR]

Okay so I checked out your little forum there... I was expecting a shop or something, but anywayz there are some shops posting there so I check those out aswell. The cheapest turbokit I could find was $3,199.95. But I check with my brother aswell today and I'll just say that I'll put a little more trust into my brother, cause well, he's my brother.

Here's the pricelist he made for the parts only.

Blitz Twin Cam Honda B16A Turbo Kit (K26) 4499,89 euro

HKS Super Sequential Blow-Off Valve 213,45 euro

Toda sports injection kit for B16A 2349,47 euro

Reinforced lightweight engine head 832,72 euro

Reinforced lightweight camshaft 921,45 euro

Reinforced lightweight pistonarms 586,45 euro (total)

Pressure boost 7 psi, minimal added perfomace 68whp, nominal added performace 182whp max added performance 293whp.

And that engine, is garantueed by my brother to run atleast 100.000KM (which comes down to 5 year warranty). A 2 year servicing contract is included into the prizes. And ofcourse 180,000 miles... lets just say that I don't believe that aswell cause if it's a car from 1994 then they would've had to turbocharge it when it was right out the factory and driven around with it constantly. Then they might have a chance to reach 200.000 miles. But when you charge your engine you ofcourse want to use it for racing and not for ordinary driving. Back then this whole ricer deal wasn't a big thing so nobody was doing it.

Now if they would say they charged a engine that has already run 200.000 miles.. a little more believeable. But that's the ricer scene for you. To act tuff and harcore people spread BS upon BS upon BS to look cool.

I would like to see this magical turbo of yours which costs $1000 and I would also like to see this magical engine of yours which costs $300 cause when I look at the pricelist he faxed me... well lets just say that $300 for a engine is something my brother would love to get a hold of.

Also something you didn't think off, what my brother though off right away btw, is that you also need to change the injection actuators and ECU, which will run you another 1200 euro atleast.

And lets also say that this engine, is something way better then just bolting on some turbo without lowering your compression and without reinforcing your engine. That is how the pros do it and that is why turbocharging "hobby bobs" (that's the nickname my father gave to people like that) don't have any clue when it comes to tuning or maintiaing a engine. And I know that turbocharging idiots are a insult to my Fathers profession cause he thinks that way aswell. He spend years of his life perfecting his art and now all of a sudden these turbocharging kids come in screaming that they know it all. They know jack!

I mean this is something like a 6 year old trying to compete with Da Vinci in fine arts.

And I sure as hell would like to know where you get your prizelist cause when I look at some shops on that forum you posted... well lets say that they're all according to what my brother is offering. No mater if it's a civic or a Ford Lightning.

I'll let you believe anything you want about the prices of charging a engine or a engine it self. Heck I'll even let you believe that Honda parts are cheap. But what I will not let you believe is that you and your friends over on that forum over there can ever come close to what my father can do.

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Hallo Mongrel,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für US Cars (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Auch interessant: Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige).

[djfux69]

why is this post suddenly against me?? i never said you father did a bad job settle down. also those prices you looked up are for new parts, most people buy used. you can make your own turbo kit for under 1000 easy. take injectors out of a junked probe turbo, turbo out of a junked eclipse, order piping, or have it made by a friend. it is all very do-able for very cheap. trust me, a lot of people do their kits around here. a lot of them are BS as you said, but a few are done very very well, for little money. also that integra i told you about was in a recent super street magazine as a top ten sleeper. GIR i dont understand why ayou are taking offense to use saying you can turbo a car for cheap? whats the big deal?

[djfux69]

I'll let you believe anything you want about the prices of charging a engine or a engine it self. Heck I'll even let you believe that Honda parts are cheap. But what I will not let you believe is that you and your friends over on that forum over there can ever come close to what my father can do.

i keep reading this part and i have to say something else. GIR i had a lot of respect for you, as i do for all the other top posters( fox, Lnc, izzy, rolandk, klien etc..) first of all i need to say this, i do not belong to that forum, nor do i care to. a lot of my friends have built their hondas for cheap and i am telling you it can be done with used parts. (one of my idiot friends invented the composite engine, wow my friends sure are stupid...) a lot of people even trade their parts. do not insult me by saying i do not know anything, i would love for you to come build a car with me and youd see exactly what i know. we have turbo cars around here, done properly for a lot more that $1000, that will take anything you put in front of them. is that the real reason you are mad? are you mad because "hobby bob idiots" are making faster cars than your father did with less money? granted i have a lot more respect for what your father did, or does ( i hope is still does). he did things the right way, and i agree with that. i am definetly for building a motor the right way. but dont get mad at kids who have little or no money to spend, and find ways to make it fast cheaper. this wasnt supposed to be a personal post, but i take what you said as an insult to myself and i do not appreciate it at all. we are all car lovers here, and all i was stating was that you can make a turbo kit for cheap.

[bleh]

woa i think your taking it a little personally. as i said in another thread: there is still so much i dont know.

i dont know what your talking about with all that warrantee and all that talk about your brother. it doesnt make much sense to me. i put over 20k on my car a year. that means in less than 10 years i would have 200k. i think i missed your point...

as far as your pricelist goes. that is for a b16. look for a kit for the d16. go to the sponsors market place or to the classifieds. there are very good prices on many things if you know where to look for them. you didnt even try to look for the greddy kit for the d16, which is the motor that can be found for $300 nearly anywhere(these are not crate engines). most stores offer 1.5k for the d16 greddy kit but if you look you can get it for around 1k. almost all turbo kits come with some sort of fuel management. and as far as the b16 kit you brought up. that comes with injectors also.

your argument before was that putting money into a car worth 1.5k is pointless, now its that it is a disgrace? i never said they were the fastest.

im sorry we cant all drive cars that are worth more than $30k

here is a key factor in this argument. djfux, how much did it cost you to get those numbers on your honda? and what did you do to the engine?

but seriously if its hitting you personally we're better off just shutting up. you dont have to believe me and your probably wont.

[bleh]

i forgot about this little bit. the reason the those turbo kits are running such low boost is because they are on stock compression. obviously if you were to get lower compression pistons, maybe a thicker head gasket then you would be able to turn up the boost.

[bleh]

But what I will not let you believe is that you and your friends over on that forum over there can ever come close to what my father can do.

what are you talking about?

[GIR]

Okay since you guyz don't apear to be getting it, i'll lay it down like this.

1. There is no way a new or referbished turbo kit + ECU + new actuators can cost $1000 or less. Well actually, first it was 1k for just the turbokit and now suddenly it's 1k for the turbokit, actuators and ECU. Everything I see around me rejects that yet you two are the only one claiming it, I wonder who to trust. Yunkyard people aren't dumb, they will not let you have the parts.

2. There is no way a referbished engine can cost $300 unless that engine has been run down to a breaking point.

3. There is no way a car from 1994 can run 180k miles with a turbo kit. First of all the timescheme isn't correct and second of all that would mean that the car has already run so much it is upto a breaking point. And no you are not going to tell me that Japanese engines are so good that they can take it.

4. Japanese parts are not cheap and they are also not widely spread. If anything the Japanese are known for their hard to get parts making them expensive. Again yunkjard people are not dumb, they will not just let you have the parts.

5. Just the fact that you guyz are making these claims insult me and my fathers profession. I will not have it. Like I said the ricer community is BS upon BS upon BS upon BS. 90% of the tales told are things like: "I once saw this", "You could do that" or "They did this" I will not have you guyz spread such BS around here.

6. Turbo chargers for the D16 are just about the same as for the B16. The price is the same. The only thing you'd have to watch with the D16 is your compression. If it gets too high you'll need a new set of pistons and pistonarms to lower it. The B16 is much easier when it comes to things like that.

Now please, stop praising those Japanese engines of yours into the skys cause they are not all that and they sure as hell can not do the things you guyz are saying.

what are you talking about?

If you can't follow the conversation then stay out of it. And instead of making 3 consecutive posts, just use the button.

[djfux69]

im out of this convo. gir you are out of control.. and obviously bias against japanese cars. i love all cars. i never made my car out to be something that it is not, and DONT call me a ricer. relax, im done talking with the man who knows it all ( funny you didnt know what a blow off valve was, but now you are an expert im sure). GIR thank you for clearing up my stories. i knew my eyes and ears were lying, i just needed you to help me see the light.i mean when those hondas that were running 11s and 12s, not to mention the mitsus... damn im glad you came along and cleared it up for me. thank you.

[bleh]

1. There is no way a new or referbished turbo kit + ECU + new actuators can cost $1000 or less. Well actually, first it was 1k for just the turbokit and now suddenly it's 1k for the turbokit, actuators and ECU. Everything I see around me rejects that yet you two are the only one claiming it, I wonder who to trust. Yunkyard people aren't dumb, they will not let you have the parts.

go to greddy.com if you look hard you can find turbo kits for under recommended retail. people at junkyards arent dumb, exactly they know that the parts are not new. maybe over there the junkyards are a little more stingy. instead of calling bs on me do the research.

2. There is no way a referbished engine can cost $300 unless that engine has been run down to a breaking point.

referbished? no. breaking point? no. most people swap out the d16(civic engine) for a more powerful engine, therefore making a very large abundance of complete swaps if you know where to look.

3. There is no way a car from 1994 can run 180k miles with a turbo kit. First of all the timescheme isn't correct and second of all that would mean that the car has already run so much it is upto a breaking point. And no you are not going to tell me that Japanese engines are so good that they can take it.

djfux take care of this point. my car only has 140k.

4. Japanese parts are not cheap and they are also not widely spread. If anything the Japanese are known for their hard to get parts making them expensive. Again yunkjard people are not dumb, they will not just let you have the parts.

it has to be true in your area for you to say that with such confidence. here i can and have found anything that i need for a very affordable price. i think my location has a lot to do with this since i am an hour away from both phili and nyc. this i think is a major cause for the majority of the debate, but you calling bs on it just seems a bit arrogant doesnt it?

5. Just the fact that you guyz are making these claims insult me and my fathers profession. I will not have it. Like I said the ricer community is BS upon BS upon BS upon BS. 90% of the tales told are things like: "I once saw this", "You could do that" or "They did this" I will not have you guyz spread such BS around here.

i dont understand how this insults you. what i know of as rice has been all show and no go. i dont understand why you dont think its possible, when you yourself will not put any research into the subject at all, aside from a quick and incomplete pricecheck.

6. Turbo chargers for the D16 are just about the same as for the B16. The price is the same. The only thing you'd have to watch with the D16 is your compression. If it gets too high you'll need a new set of pistons and pistonarms to lower it. The B16 is much easier when it comes to things like that.

you dont know what your talking about. the price is different from greddy. there is a larger variety of parts for the b16 but the d16's parts generally run a bit cheaper. the compressions in the variety of d16s and in the variety of b16s vary so greatly that for you to say that one is more volital than the other is ignorance. if you are getting the b16 confused with the b18b then i understand since all the b18b's have stronger internals.

Now please, stop praising those Japanese engines of yours into the skys cause they are not all that and they sure as hell can not do the things you guyz are saying.

we were never praising them to the sky. why cant they? i made statements based on experiences some aquaintances have had. your statements are based on speculation.

If you can't follow the conversation then stay out of it. And instead of making 3 consecutive posts, just use the button.

i really thought large posts were annoying to everyone on here. i can follow the conversation fine. i just dont know why you are mentioning your father and your brother when you are the one typing. i dont know why your bragging about your father without mentioning what he does, has done.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i'll have to side with GIR here. The civic was never designed as a high performance machine, and finds it limtis in that repsect. I have a number of good freinds who are japanese compact tuners, and it isn't as peachy as you make it out to be. Japanese cars are generally cheap and easy to find stuff for, there is so much out there getting a guarantee of quality is hard, and what is worse is that when things big break, in hondas most of all, the compact driveline, which is mounted transverse makes fixing things all but fun, and engine swaps low on the fun to do list.

if nothing else, tuning a crude american car is easy, i could pull an engine and have a new one in in just a few hours, verses a honda, where it could take a LONG time, especially if you need to alter anything in your front driveline. Swapping a tranny on a mustang is 1hr. On a civic, god only knows what it would take to get a bolstered tranny in there.

I'm just saying, it's cheap, but japanese compacts aren't all peaches and cream in performance tuning.

[bleh]

fox, i dont think you noticed this or not but all of your details agreed with mine. the reason you say you side with him is because you plainly dont like japanese cars for those same reasons. i do understand why different people like different cars.

the thing with finding quality parts is that you have to ask around. say find a quarter million other honda owners and ask around, see what products are worth anything.

i obviously have more passion for japanese cars, therefore am tollerant in the areas where they lack, but if you saw underneath the hood of my car you would understand that its not that much more complex just different. it took a while for me to get used to it.

[GIR]

go to greddy.com if you look hard you can find turbo kits for under recommended retail. people at junkyards arent dumb, exactly they know that the parts are not new.

Where are these magical cheap turbokits then? You guyz keep giving me links to sites which do not metion prices in the same range or have nothing todo with the issue. I haven't seen 1 single site or 1 single retailer which mentions a price in that range. What's even more funnier is that according to their catalogue, greddy doesn't even have a turbo kit for a 94 Civic 1.6 DOHC and they also do not have any chargers for the D16 range.

referbished? no. breaking point? no. most people swap out the d16(civic engine) for a more powerful engine, therefore making a very large abundance of complete swaps if you know where to look.

Oh so suddenly they sell a perfectly good engine for almost nothing is that it? You know if I were to put the same tactics into my company I would be bancrupt by now. First of all the costs of the new engine come to mind. Total BS.

djfux take care of this point. my car only has 140k.

Is that with or without turbo? Cause that's what this is about you know.

it has to be true in your area for you to say that with such confidence. here i can and have found anything that i need for a very affordable price. i think my location has a lot to do with this since i am an hour away from both phili and nyc. this i think is a major cause for the majority of the debate, but you calling bs on it just seems a bit arrogant doesnt it?

Sighs. You know I'm not goin to repeat my whole history again but my father is a mechanic, has been all his life. He has a shop and I have been helping ever since I was little and so has my brother. I think I know what the availibilty on parts are and how much they would cost. If I don't I'll just ring up my brother, who runs my fathers bussiness now, and ask him what the prices are. And like you can see from my previous post, if you want a professional kit which can give you a significant boost, not some fart boost, then you'll need to dish out more then just 1k.

i dont understand how this insults you. what i know of as rice has been all show and no go. i dont understand why you dont think its possible, when you yourself will not put any research into the subject at all, aside from a quick and incomplete pricecheck.

Well the prices come directly from the importer + 2 year servicing + 12%. Man power hasn't been taken into account. I didn't put research into it. I just called up my brother, who has recent pricelists and hwo has done this a million time before.

you dont know what your talking about. the price is different from greddy. there is a larger variety of parts for the b16 but the d16's parts generally run a bit cheaper. the compressions in the variety of d16s and in the variety of b16s vary so greatly that for you to say that one is more volital than the other is ignorance. if you are getting the b16 confused with the b18b then i understand since all the b18b's have stronger internals.

As you can see from the list the internals of the B16A is being upgraded aswell with lighter and stronger ones. If you'd do the same with the D16 engine then you'd have to swap out the pistonheads aswell to lower the compression because like you said the D16 engine's aren't so tuff. The required materials and the prices are the same.

we were never praising them to the sky. why cant they? all you have is speculation.

Speculation? You guyz claiming a charged engine that's has been running 180k miles with 7 psi pressure... how much speculation is that? Like I said the timescheme isn't correct and the amount of miles isn't correct. If you would say it has been charged after it has run 180k miles or somewhere along the line it has been charged and the total comes to 180k miles I could belive that but not a charged engine for 180k miles. That is BS and is not possible withint the timeframe given.

i really thought large posts were annoying to everyone on here. i can follow the conversation fine. i just dont know why you are mentioning your father and your brother when you are the one typing. i dont know why your bragging about your father without mentioning what he does, has done.

My Father has been a mechanic ever since he was 13, there is nothing he can't do with a car. My brother runs the family bussiness now. Me and my brother helped him out alot when we were kids. I find people posting 3x more annoying then large posts. The edit button is there for a reason.

[bleh]

im sorry you care so much about my two extra posts.

still all you have is speculation.

i am done, also. you are just skimming through the posts and are too thickheaded to look into the details. i never mentioned a professional kit costing $1k you are either warping my words or not understanding them. i also think you are gettin dj and i mixed up. i dont know anything about the 180k w/turbo car.

small details that just let me know that your to prejudiced to do any kind of research: the d16 is not a dohc. you couldnt type "greddy d16" into google. come on your smart enough to find things out for yourself, right?

there isnt a thing you can do to prove me wrong. why call bs on it? why would i lie? to try to acclaim credibility to myself? yet i drive the cheapest car out of everyone on this forum.

i thought close minded people only existed in america...

[GIR]

1. Read up on the history of this thread. That's what you get for cutting into the middle. The $1k and 180k miles thing has been mentioned and THAT what this is all about. I say that, that is BS.

2. READ!!!

greddy doesn't even have a turbo kit for a 94 Civic 1.6 DOHC and they also do not have any chargers for the D16 range.

DJFux said soemthing about putting a turbocharger into his 1994 Civic 1.6 DOHC. How? GReddy doesn't even have a kit for his car.

But I did what you asked me and you know what I came up with? Modded kits scrapped together from a yunkjard and made D16 possible. So GReddy doesn't have any D16 kits. And to be honest, I'd rather go the extra lenght and spend some more to be sure I have a good kit then some home made, 2nd hand do it yourself kit.

[djfux69]

Where are these magical cheap turbokits then? You guyz keep giving me links to sites which do not metion prices in the same range or have nothing todo with the issue. I haven't seen 1 single site or 1 single retailer which mentions a price in that range. What's even more funnier is that according to their catalogue, greddy doesn't even have a turbo kit for a 94 Civic 1.6 DOHC and they also do not have any chargers for the D16 range.

i had to post one last time regardless of what i said before. homemade kit... thats all. a good friend of mine has an rs eclipse( non turbo) did a homemade turbo setup, puts out around 400hp to the wheels. he eats zo6's and he runs 11s even with his fwd setup.

Oh so suddenly they sell a perfectly good engine for almost nothing is that it? You know if I were to put the same tactics into my company I would be bancrupt by now. First of all the costs of the new engine come to mind. Total BS.

its not that they sell a perfectly good engine for almost nothing, the fact is no one wants it!! everyone wantys a b18c or b18b to make vtec. thats why they CANT charge high prices for the lower b series and d series. it is a frequent swap and you can easily find one with less than 50,000 miles on it for under 500. because no one wants it!

[bleh]

DJFux said soemthing about putting a turbocharger into his 1994 Civic 1.6 DOHC. How? GReddy doesn't even have a kit for his car.

your wrong again. djfux never said he had a civic. and if he has the 350z then greddy does make a kit for his car.

as far as your commandment for me to read. i read it but i know nothing about what he made reference to. maybe you should read it. he never said it was his car.