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GIR

[RUMOR] New BMW engine to rev upto 9000rpm

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GIR
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This rumor combined with the other rumor that BMW is going to use a twin turbo makes me think this new engine is going to be bad.

I don't know which I'd have rather, an engine with a turbo or an engine that revs upto 9k, they're both sucky sucky. Hopefully it will be neither.

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thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

Well, I can put one of these to rest for sure. There is a 0% likelyhood of the next M5 featuring any form of turbocharger. This has been reitterated by BMW multiple times. The engine will although have a redline at - or above 8,000 rps (think of it like M3 E46's I6, only bigger). There has to be some way to get 100hp/l. Don't worry, this won't be like a Honda S2000 9k, motor, like the numerous high winding M engines before it, this will likely have plenty of middle and low end as well.

GIR
Geschrieben

That's what I was affraid of when I heard it, An S2000 type engine which will only reach it's max at the high end. Anywayz all the BMW releases go with rumors like this, currently it's just wait and see.

Funny you should bring up the S2000 cause I was having a conversation about it today with a friend :)

PitbuLL
Geschrieben

guys, you're forgetting one thing here. Low end grunt has much to do with displacement. And since we're talking about an M5 motor it should normally have a bigger displacement than 5l, so the low end grunt will most certainly be ok.

The sole reason why an S2000 hasn't got as much grunt is 'cause it still is a 1997cc engine, so in the lower regions it does well for a small engine. It's only when you revv it high that you find the true potential of the beast. (i LOVE that car)

digger
Geschrieben

GIR what did you think when you found out the e46 M3 would rev to 8000rpm ,and look how awesome its engine turned out to be. I expect the 5.5 V10 will be above everyones expectations.

bleh
Geschrieben

i dont understand what is wrong with a high reving car or turbos.

it has always been to my understanding that the power output can be modified by the transmission. so what is the big deal?

bmw's will never have turbos. it just isnt their style i understand turbo lag and the added complexity to the engine, but i would much rather take a turbo v8 over a high output na v8 from the same maker, same year.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

firstly, turbos are pretty hard on engines, and they are not exactly condusive to responsiveness. they also take the bite off the exhaust note. 9,000 isn't that much fun, engines with narrow torque bands aren't so fun. I think bmw has struck the balance well so far in their M-Power engines, I think they'll continue

GIR
Geschrieben

Well let me put it this way. A high reving engine which has all it's grunt on the high end and nothing in the mid or low is like a diesel, it slowly comes to speed but once it's running it's unstopable. Waiting for it to rev up can be annoying, there's nothing worse then a engine that doesn't respond rightaway.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

let's look at it like this. Peak power on the Honda S2000's engine is at 8,900rpms, peak torque is at 7,500 rpms. You have the top 1,400rpms to play with. Not much up to that, you have to keep it way the heck up there to perform. The current M5 has oodles of torque through all of its gears, aside from having nice top end. I like to think that the V10 will be like the old M5 I6s, they build the torque as they go - but still have enough bottom and low to be fun.

bleh
Geschrieben
firstly, turbos are pretty hard on engines, and they are not exactly condusive to responsiveness. they also take the bite off the exhaust note. 9,000 isn't that much fun, engines with narrow torque bands aren't so fun. I think bmw has struck the balance well so far in their M-Power engines, I think they'll continue
turbos do put strain on engines, but not as much as superchargers and engines can be made to deal with such forces. turbos are not that hard on engines due to the nature of that type of forced induction. the initial cumbustion really isnt that much stronger than that of a higher compression naturally aspirated motor. the torque from a turbo is the lasting boost of energy after the initial cumbustion that works with less overlapping cams producing a longer shot of torque and not abusing the engine as heavily as any other forms of forced induction.

i do agree with the issue of throttle response on turbo cars, but this is overcome with adjustments to air management. as far as sound is concerned: i think the sound of sequential bovs and external wastegates is out of this world.

as far as a 9k redline, i love that. a very short first gear that allows a steadier launch due to lower torque levels at lower rpms is ideal to me then when the major torque kicks in at the higher rpms there is not the issue of initial traction only chirping second and third gear. and at this point it is not an issue anyway. the sound of an engine that revs that high is very appealing to me. one of the few things i like about my car is that it revs to 7200.

i know bmw will never touch f.i. because they have no reason to. however, to me high revving has always been synonimous with exotic sports cars especially as research and development has yeilded more powerful engines.

PitbuLL
Geschrieben
let's look at it like this. Peak power on the Honda S2000's engine is at 8,900rpms, peak torque is at 7,500 rpms. You have the top 1,400rpms to play with. Not much up to that, you have to keep it way the heck up there to perform. The current M5 has oodles of torque through all of its gears, aside from having nice top end. I like to think that the V10 will be like the old M5 I6s, they build the torque as they go - but still have enough bottom and low to be fun.

That's true, but you're comparing a 1997cc (that's less than 2l) with a 5.5l. So i don't think you can justify that comparison. You'll be hard pressed to make a 5.5l engine weak in the lower ends due to sheer displacement.

Btw i personally adore a high revving high output engine like the S2000. It's nice in daily use since you can drive it easy when you like, and face it, most of the time on the road is spend following that slower car in front of you. And if you need the go fast (or that car just moved over), just shift down one or two gears and the car flips into racing mode.

And yes, i'm a belgian who's been raised with a manual tranny, so i really don't mind shifting every 15s.

thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

belgian? y'all like manuals out there?

Still, the S2000 has a lot less car to carry around than an M5, furthermore, and M5 is meant to be a lot faster.

An M5 by its nature can't be soft anywhere. Look at the competition.

GIR
Geschrieben
belgian? y'all like manuals out there?

Still, the S2000 has a lot less car to carry around than an M5, furthermore, and M5 is meant to be a lot faster.

An M5 by its nature can't be soft anywhere. Look at the competition.

Everybody in Europe likes manuals... over here you can get a autotranny as an option. In the US it's the other way around.

bleh
Geschrieben
Everybody in Europe likes manuals... over here you can get a autotranny as an option. In the US it's the other way around.
one big reason i do not like the united states. the m5 is one of the few luxury sport sedans available in manual over here.
PitbuLL
Geschrieben
one big reason i do not like the united states. the m5 is one of the few luxury sport sedans available in manual over here.

how can you put sport and automatic in one sentence ?? The automatic will eat some of the engine's power away just to close up. And i always tought in a sportscar that the power has to go to the ground, not to the tranny.

So the only thing i would consider are trannies like SMG or even better DSG (audi's latest toy).

Anyway this is getting off-topic ;-)

bleh
Geschrieben
how can you put sport and automatic in one sentence ??
one big reason i do not like the united states
exactly
thepolarfoxqx
Geschrieben

it is all about taste. I drove an E36 M3 auto today, it was still a very fun car. I like the manual more, SMG almost as much, but some like the auto. Just not me.

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