Ford Mustang Cobra

[thepolarfoxqx]

For 2003 Mustang Cobra gets a 390hp DOHC 4.6L Supercharged V8. Those of you who moan that its platform is 24 years old, keep in mind that A: It gets the DEW Lite platform for 2005 (Jag S-Type, T-Bird, Lincoln LS), and the Cobra gets a multi-link rear suspension - which is a pretty nice improvement. Here is a thought for you - in terms of performance and refinement - would this new car not compete with an M3 - similar price - the Cobra has more power - the M3 - more luxury (though the cobra gets conv. top and some interior materials from jag XK). This car can haul 4 people - beats a Corvette C5 LS1 to 60 - and gives Z06 LS6 something to worry about. Anyone have any thoughts?

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Hallo thepolarfoxqx,

 

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[LOTUSV8]

No doubt the Cobra is a fast car....but it hardly qualifies as a supercar. Its really a muscle car. Don't get me wrong but, 390 bhp@3600+lbs doesn't sound very appealing to me.

[thepolarfoxqx]

No, Cobra is no supercar, GT40 is, it is a sports car, just because it has a wild v8 doesn't make it a muscle car. It is as much a sports car as your ZR1. 390hp is 3,600lbs isn't bad, but remember how flat and wide the torque curve is. Best of all, they are very modern cars - with potential left in them.

[LOTUSV8]

The Cobra/Mustang/Camaro/Firebird will never the sports car the Vette or Viper is. The Vette/Viper are true 2 seater sport car vs. the Cobra/Mustangs 4 seat pony/muscle car format. Sure it has potential, but there is nothing impressive about a 390bhp engine with a blower. (from an engineering standpoint)

[thepolarfoxqx]

First off - viper is not a sports car. It is a poorly designed chasis (yes, it is unstable and has unimpressive handling numbers - shamed by 4 seaters at half the price), and has a tuned up truck motor dating back forever that uses pushrods, I am sorry, pushrods belong in lawn tractors. Corvette lays decent claim. What is impressive about 500hp from 8.3L? not a whole lot. The mustang cobra employs DOHC and a roots s/c - along with a few other tricks - the end result - the power comes on low and strong - nearing peak torque by 2,000 - not dropping off till past 5,500 - peak horsepower is at 6,000. Redline 6,500. Cost: $35,000. Only a tad slower than viper (1/2 second to 60?). Just by using a smaller s/c pully, you could increase horsepower over 500 as boost is set at a resonable 8 psi currently. The Lotus Esprit V8 makes 350hp from 3.5L - and suffers turbo lag. Just because it has a back seat doesn't make it not a sports car. I am not saying that the 4.6 S/C is the greatest thing every, but in the scheme of american sports car engines, this is one of the most advanced and available engines. It is based on archetecture introduced in 1997 - the engines in viper and corvette directly trace their designs and archetecture to engines introduced in the mid to late fifties. Maybe if Chrysler and GM would build somewhat modern engines for their sports cars, they would be more competitive. Corvette is already a very good sports car. Viper - has its niche - for people who thrive on cubic inches. Mustang Cobra is (and with a highly modified suspension and body torsion resistance - it is hardly the platform the debuted in '78) is arguably the most modern in its engineering. If viper had the specific output of cobra - it would make over 700 horsepower. How is that for engineering?

[LOTUSV8]

I'm sorry sticking a blower on DOHC isn't all that impressive. Its only being done because without the blower its just another slow Cobra.

[thepolarfoxqx]

This engine pumps out 85 hp/L with a low power blower. The reason such a low pressure is used is for better response. What do you call a good engine? Sure, there are better german engines, - but dollar for dollar, you can't get faster. period. If you think that the Lotus (well, its really a rover) 3.5L V8 is special, keep in mind its less than stellar reliability history, the fact that it can only make 100hp/l to spite being nearly a supercar - and being twin turbo. Cobras have always been tuner favorites because there is so much potential left in them. If there is one thing to say about american cars, they have a lot of power left to be extracted from them. There are few cars for twice the price of cobra that can haul 4 people close to as fast as it can. Mercedes has long used blowers to make mild engines wild. Porsche has relied upon turbos, as have the japanese manufacturers. What is the Rover 3.5L V8 without a turbo? A wimpy ornary british motor without enough torque to be worth while. What is the 4.6L DOHC Cobra motor without a blower. A pretty nice powerplant, not amazing, but pretty nice.

[T88TurboStang]

ok first of all the cobra does not have 390.....how do i know that, easy, ford hides there numbers now.... the cobra has over 430 to the crank... and runs 380-90 to the wheels...... i konw this becuase i have seen bone stock ones dynoed before my very eyes, and the great thing about a "FACTORY" s/c is that it is waranteed.... which means this fellas.... you swap out the pully to a smaller one...add a chip...and exhaust for 1000$... and you have easy easy 470 hp to the rear wheels.... and how about htis... isaw one smoke the hell out of a 550 maranelo...so know the stats before you konw wha tyou rae talking about...you think vipers are that great... with 480 hp and 500 hp, yea well they only run 410 to the wheels....ooh wait the cobra can do 470 with what....a smalll 30 dollar pully.... lol lol

[thepolarfoxqx]

The Cobra is an amazing car, I go by the specs that the factory puts out. The factory says 390. Based on the 0-60 numbers from tests (4.7-4.8) - 390 fits. I think if Ford could pull the weight on the cobra down 3200-3400 pounds - they would have an amazing car.

Too bad they didn't use the 5.4L from the Cobra R with a low inertia S/C - that woulda been really cool.

[T88TurboStang]

at a local mustang shop..they tuned a supercharged cobra R...and ran 580 to the rear wheels....and that was only 3/4 tuned....... they said htey will get 600 to the rear wheels with a better fuel system...ignition..and timeing it better...now taht is some muscle..dayum

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Hallo thepolarfoxqx,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für US Cars (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

[thepolarfoxqx]

yeah it is.

That is a hell of a lot money i am sure, and a lot of power for the platform, and probably one hell of a lot of fun.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Hey how about the 2004 SVT Cobra? Nice car eh? Damn it looks nice (it's front looks like the front of the '67 Mustang).

[N866DA]

Just a point of information, thepolarfoxqx, the Mustang Cobra does not outrun an LS1 powered Corvette to 60. The road test numbers I've seen clock the Cobra at 5.2 to 60 vs 4.8 for the LS1 powered Vette and 3.9 for the Z06.

The Cobra is a much heavier car, in fact, significantly heavier than the '02 Cobra because they had to go back to a cast iron block. So while they have more power than an LS1 powered Vette, their power to weight ratio is still inferior and the vehicle is still slower.

Close, but, as usual for Ford, no cigar.

[izzyloveslizzy]

I have a question: Is this the same 390HP engine that appears in the 2004 SVT Mustang tuned to 400HP?

[thepolarfoxqx]

car and driver as well as motor trend rate the cobra at 4.9 and 4.8 respectively. That is even with their vette numbers. Cobra is heavier. It also has more power, a longer and flatter torque curve, and more aggressive gearing. The 2004 400hp is the same engine with a new intake. They are also talking of a new intercooler, which would boost further, and possibly a higher output S/C. As of now, just the new intake good for 10hp.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Shouldn't that thing be (theoretically) performing a bit better considering the improvements?

[thepolarfoxqx]

the coupe is better than 3,600lbs, the convertible is about 3,800, so 4.8-4.9 0-60 is pretty nice for 390hp. I think it does pretty well with what it's got.

[izzyloveslizzy]

I think it's time for this car to move up to 500HP. Just look at the next M5, it has 500HP as opposed to the older versions' ~400HP.

[thepolarfoxqx]

The all aluminum supercharged and freon boosted intercooled 5.4L to go into the 2004 Lightening will fit under the hood of Cobra. That engine is the same as the 5.4L that goes into the GT, except for this has the ability to pump ultra-cold freon from the air-conditioning compressor through the intercooler, which adds 50hp peak.

I doubt we will see anything bigger than the 390 4.6 until the new mustange comes out for 2004/2005

[izzyloveslizzy]

Well, it makes sense, too! If they make anything they have in their arsenal right now more than 390, then the 2004/2005 'stang will have to work out a little more and maybe make 450HP or so. Hmm. I wonder why it makes so little (comparatively) in the first place.

By the way, explain more about Freon, if you could. I'd love learning more about this. By the way I've had a question for a while which I keep forgetting to ask the pros: Is it possible to use Liquid Nitrogen for intercooling? Or do I just not know what I'm talking about? (I'm a huge fan of "overclocking" computers, and the obvious problem with this is overheating, which, in it's most extreme form, is taken care of by means of hooking up huge Liquid Nitrogen hoses to the CPU of the computer to destroy the heat, and maybe the processor! - maybe this can also be used in car engines? - and maybe it already has been; I don't know.).

Oh, also, remember you said you've never seen Nitrous up to 900HP, I've seen one up to 1200! It literally adds a solid 1200HP to the poor engine! (well maybe not so solid depending on which engine - wouldn't want to screw with a Tercel and add 1200 to it's feeble 90).

[thepolarfoxqx]

well, as much as I love overclocking, I work strictly with aircooling, which doesn't work with cars. The compressor supercools the freon which is pumped through the intercool to supercool the air. This makes the air very dense, and incrases the effect of the supercharger. Liquid nirtogen would work much like NOS. NOS when injected causes air to be supercooled, and huge boosts. Liquid nitrogen although requires a cryogenic refrigeration system, which isn't so small. It is not practical, but it could be done. It has no real advantage over NOS though, but I would stick to normal, or maybe freon charged intercooolers.

[izzyloveslizzy]

well, I can't say I even slightly agree that it (Liq. Nitr.) has no real advantages over NOS. Correct me IIW, but doesn't Liquid Nitrogen kick serious ass (I can say ass, right?) on Nitrous Oxide?

As for the Cryogenic chamber, that would not pose a huge problem, especially with crazy people like me who (with a bit of extra cash) would become hell-bent on tweaking edge to the edge of oblivion. Of course I know the containment of Liquid Nitrogen is hard, then again this same issue is posing a problem for the advocates of Hydrogen engines (of course probably not as much, but still...).

Oh and one more thing: You're into just everything aren't you? You sound just like me. How do you overclock CPUs? HAVE you ever overclocked any CPUs? My dream is to show everyone just how much a Pentium 4 sucks, by making a combo of Liquid Nitrogen and a 550MHz AMD K6-III+. It can be overclocked to 2.5GHz or more with double Liquid Nitro, though it creates other problems (but I Love a good challenge). Oh and believe me, a K6-III+ at 2.5GHz+ would kill a 3.07GHz Pentium 4 HT.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Well, liquid nitrogen has a severe disadvantage (well, actually quite a few). Firstly, it is not flamable at any temperature. After you use NOS to freeze the air being pulled into the engine, the NOS will burn with the gas in the combustion chamber. Liquid nitrogen will not burn. Also, liquid nitrogen is, i believe -223 degrees centrigrade below zero. I do not know of any material you could build an intake manifold out of that would take a temperature differential of better than 300 degrees centigrade over 4 inches. It would shatter. A cryo system is very very very heavy, i promise you, it would be a pain just to get you car to take that part, even if you did have some magic material, and didn't care that you were pumping non-flamable material into the engine - which would erase a lot of the gain would have gotten from it.

With freon, you don't release anything into the intake, so it stays just air and gas going into the engine. The freon is pumped through a radiator coil in the intercooler, and contact cools the air. You can't do this with liquid nitrogen, because again, there is no material to make thin, condutctive coils from that you could deep freeze like that, and expect not to instantly shatter. Therefor, you would have to pump liquid nitrogen vapor into the intake (like what people do with NOS). I already explained why that wouldn't do much for ya. It is a cool idea, but I am afraid it just doesn't work. There are insane people everywhere who would have done it already if they could have.

[izzyloveslizzy]

That's true you're right it ain't flammable. That's one thing it's not!

That's true. I agree. I already know the problems (and dangers) Liquid Nitrogen can create. The containment of Liquid Nitrogen is probably the hardest thing.

It would be good if you could create a Freon/Nitrous-Oxide/Liquid-Nitrogen mixture (impossible, I know) that would have the best features of each. Then your engine would do some crazy wacky stuff!

[T88TurboStang]

Hey, this one guy took a 03 cobra put a 2.2 inch pully, and other goodies and dynoed almost 800 hp....now that is some insane shiet..hehe soon to be running 9's!!! last run was 10.23 @ 13-somthing