How r US sports cars regarded in Europe

[izzyloveslizzy]

Yeas but that's a small minority though. Also, by Bavarian I am referring to (German Aryans). I know they are like a different breed (LOL) of German, but they are all referred to as Bavarians in North America and other places where people don't have a whole lot of knowledge about the rest of the world. That's why I'm used to referring to the mall as Bavarians.

also, what Japanese cars can you refer to that they have in Japan, that happen to be exciting (also, I mean REAL exciting cars, not cars that excite the Japanese only, because the Japanese seem to be a bit easy to impress at times).

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo imported_COUNTACH,

 

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US Cars Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | US Cars Zubehör (Anzeige)

[thepolarfoxqx]

huh, maybe you should meet more of these people.

The japanese have cars like the Skyline GTR, the all-wheel-drive twin turbo maxima, the full-spec mitsu EVO VIII, the japanese market accord comes here next year as TSX, an Acura sports sedan. Their cars excite most everyone, and they don't always seem so impressed by north american cars.

Bavaria is really like its own little country within a country. They have traditions (ie - oktoberfest), expressions (gruss gott), and their own attitude, and of course, if you ever drive an audi or a bmw, you will immidiately know it isn't a mercedes, or any other car. Bavarian cars were meant to carve the narrow roads in the alps, have a crisp drivers feel, but always handling is tops. In nearby Baden Wurtenberg, values in automotive design are more conventionally german, as is seen in a mercedes, vault-like construction, effortless, smooth, feel. Clean, simple, classic style, and understated design.

[izzyloveslizzy]

We have all those cars here. And I still don't get it.

The Japanese ARE impressed with European cars though!

Oh and I agree with you on everything else you said. By the way aren't ALL German cars about "handling" first and foremost?

[T88TurboStang]

yea i was wondering how they are regarded as well....

i remember there was a artilce about 4 vipers in england, and france driving around and everyone was jocking them. But i have never heard of how they think...

BTW....my .02 about the best cars in the world.... "THEY COME FROM GERMANY"!!!! hehe

[thepolarfoxqx]

Can you blame them, from styling, to engineering, to ride, to sound, the viper is meant to be offensive. The english would probably laugh and wryly jock about it. The french would probably throw their heads and say something about how americans are uncivilized.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Well, the old stereo-types are no longer true. But they do dislike American cars, probably because they have better ones coming from Germany.

[T88TurboStang]

lol, GERMANS are by far the most techonolgically advanced, and there inteligence on how they construct there cars is just fuvking amazing. I read so much on BMW, PORSCHE, MERCEDES(btw is 5 years ahead of every manufacterer in the world), AUDI, i mean the techonolgy, i swaer to god my mind blows away sometimes. THey have so much thought in to everything they do, and the after market companies for them is just out of this world. JUst look at Gemballa, omg the things they do to porsche, and hamman/ac snitchzer/etc, the kits, and after market powre adders to make a fuvking already 3.2 333 hp M3 over 500 hp, and the m5 to beyond that. i mean GERMANY is the god country to automobiles!!!

BOW down , hehe, but i still gotz love for my americanzz..

BTW izzy, you persian or somthing, just curiosu about your"iran makes a car now"....is that regarding to the pecan...

And also, did you konw that the mercedes G500 was originally made for the shah of iran...hehe, before hte revoltuion!!??

[thepolarfoxqx]

i think the vast majority of the french will tell you that france makes the best cars. Better from germany, maybe in some aspects, I don't know any car that will take on a 911 turbo period, and in terms of sedans, germany has it. I don't remember seeing that many german cars in france come to think of it. Quite a bit of citroen, renault, and puegot, some fiat and alfa romeo. The occasional mercedes, opel, vauxhall, or vw (and of course euroford).

[T88TurboStang]

Haha, hey polar, you have a lot of knowlegde of hte US market, you work on american cars a lot...??

[thepolarfoxqx]

I tune volvos actually. My good freinds are all american small block v8 tuners.

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo imported_COUNTACH,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für US Cars (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Yes I am, T88. I'm part Persian part Russian/Azeri. My signature tag refers to the new car that Iran's making (not the old Peykans). They're making the car's parts and engines from scratch themselves. It's a normal sedan that's got ~100HP. I don't know it's acceleration figures but I know it reaches a max. speed of about 180KPH. It looks surprisingly good considering how it's Iran's first ever try at making a car. The rear looks new and I can't think of anything else's rear that looks like that. It looks weird. But the front looks like the front of the Audi A4. Judge for yourself.

Oh, and no I didn't know the G was made for the Shah. Probably another attempt to bribe him (when he got kicked out of Iran no one even gave him refuge!). Ouch. To hell with that bastard. Even the F16 Fighter Jet was partially invested in by that dude. He had a lot of things made for him. I'm surprised that you know that, T88.

[makara]

i really don't think anyone is ignorant enough to say that any american car (except maybe a viper) is all dragster, no handling.

Dragster with independent rear suspension? What's your beef with the viper? Almost every post you make about it is ignorant.

[thepolarfoxqx]

is ignorant huh?

yeah it has an indapendant rear suspension, it also has a long and heavy V10 slung out front. Handling is precarious at best. Sure - it is capable in a best case setting of pretty good handling numbers, but it is a very very sensative car to drive. Something like a corvette or cobra is forgiving, the viper is not. They went to shove the highest displacenement, largest, loudest, most badass engine in there, they didn't ever try to make a balanced sports car. The first one had windows that slid back, were tiny, had blind spots big enough to park a truck in, the pedals were put off center (which was annoying as hell), the cabin got unbearably hot, reguardless of any attempt to cool it, and it was dangerously prone to sudden oversteer. Not what I call a slick handling sports car.

then again, i might just be ignorant.

[LateNightCable]

over here the Viper is considert a strange fenomenon lol you will NOT see them here often

I think this is the case with just about all American cars in Europe, over there, a Viper or a Corvette is a foriegn car, and there will be people who see no value in them, and then there are people who really have a thing for say the unique size and sound of an American V-8 and the supposed oddities of a Yankee car.

I think the German's are curious about the Vette. I read an article in a travel magazine a while back written by Jay Leno. He drove a Vette through Germany and while on a tour of the Mercedes facility, they asked him, " This Corvette, is it fun to drive? " as if to say, " Do you think she's prettier than me? "

[thepolarfoxqx]

Mercedes, and the city of stuttgart in general woud never aknowledge any car to be superior to a mercedes. They hold a special place for porsche, and will tell you nothing is sportier, but it is like dearborn michigan, everyone there said nothing tops a ford. I am sure if the people at Mercedes drove a vette around, they would throw their noses in the air, say it was unrefined, the quality was sad, the interior materials were seccond rate, and that it was not a balanced automobile.

What you have to keep in mind is this, For $50k, you can have either a C32 AMG or a Corvette. The C32, as tested by motor trend, is faster than a Corvette to 60, 100, and in the quarter. The C32 is faster with an auto than the vette with a manual. The vette outhandles C32 slightly (it has almost 2mph on it through the slalom). That said, C32 has a first rate interior, the finest seats, the best woods, metals, and leathers, it has build quality beyond reproach, and rides much nicer, and is relatively quiet.

If quiet, smooth riding, and wood panels are not your idea of fun, that is why Chevy makes the fast, tight, hard riding, overstyled and easily modified corvette.

[makara]

is ignorant huh?

yeah it has an indapendant rear suspension, it also has a long and heavy V10 slung out front. Handling is precarious at best. Sure - it is capable in a best case setting of pretty good handling numbers, but it is a very very sensative car to drive. Something like a corvette or cobra is forgiving, the viper is not. They went to shove the highest displacenement, largest, loudest, most badass engine in there, they didn't ever try to make a balanced sports car. The first one had windows that slid back, were tiny, had blind spots big enough to park a truck in, the pedals were put off center (which was annoying as hell), the cabin got unbearably hot, reguardless of any attempt to cool it, and it was dangerously prone to sudden oversteer. Not what I call a slick handling sports car.

then again, i might just be ignorant.

Yeah, I'm going to go with ignorant here. First of all, the Gen 1 viper (which I have owned) did not have "windows that slid back" I didn't seem to have problems with the blind spot. I felt visability was better than in a ZO6. The car was very capable on the track but like any high powered RWD car, requires attention to drive fast. The GTS, which I currently own, seems to have a bit less visability than my RT/10 but is a much more forgiving and faster car to drive on the track.. Having driven my GTS on the street of Willow Springs, a very tight track, I can say first hand that the viper is absolutly amazing and was putting out quicker laps than the race prepared cars I had been driving all day.

[thepolarfoxqx]

the original vipers, for like 4 years afterwards had really odd sliding windows. It is well documented. Shall I go down to the neighbors house, get him to pull his out, and take a picture of his window? I'm just saying that a viper could be done a whole hell of a lot better for what it has going on. It lacks refinement, attention to detail, ergenomics in general, handling is especially unpredictable. A viper lacks refinement, and could just be a lot better. Right now it is a huge engine strapped to an incredibly taut chasis.

[makara]

the original vipers, for like 4 years afterwards had really odd sliding windows. It is well documented. Shall I go down to the neighbors house, get him to pull his out, and take a picture of his window? I'm just saying that a viper could be done a whole hell of a lot better for what it has going on. It lacks refinement, attention to detail, ergenomics in general, handling is especially unpredictable. A viper lacks refinement, and could just be a lot better. Right now it is a huge engine strapped to an incredibly taut chasis.

You really have no idea, do you? From 1992 to 1995, the viper had no windows built into the car. In the aftermarket, you could buy sliding windows but they were not stock. Should I have expected you to know this? No. Your information is wrong. Par for the course.

[thepolarfoxqx]

you know, that is interesting, because when I went looking at them when they first came out, all of the ones on the dealer lot seemed to have sliding windows.

We'd all love to buy a car without windows right?

That my freinds is top quality engineering, build a car whose cabin gets uncontrollably hot, and then elect not to equip it with windows, then wonder why people attack it as being a hack car.

[SRT Mike]

you know, that is interesting, because when I went looking at them when they first came out, all of the ones on the dealer lot seemed to have sliding windows.

We'd all love to buy a car without windows right?

That my freinds is top quality engineering, build a car whose cabin gets uncontrollably hot, and then elect not to equip it with windows, then wonder why people attack it as being a hack car.

They all seemed to have sliding windows when they first came out and you saw them on the dealer lot? Well, you're either lying or as Makara said, ignorant. Windows were not available for that car for a long time after it was released.

Second, you think a car without windows is a "hack"? Do you think all the Dodge engineers sat around trying to figure out how to put windows on the car and when they couldn't do it, they decided to just release it? The original Viper was an exercise in design and manufacturing by Dodge, using new materials and new design concepts. When it toured the show circuit, people fell in love, sent in checks and demanded the car be built AS IS. That is exactly what Dodge did, and the car sold like hotcakes. It takes some balls to make a car in this day and age with no windows and no top. The other cars that fall into this category are cars like the Shelby Cobra and the Ferrari 550 Barchetta. But they must be "hack cars" too right?

The Viper is not meant to be a grand tourer, and it's not meant to be a family car. It's meant to be a toy that you take out for fun and it does a better job of that than any other car I've ever owned.

You don't get what the Viper is all about, so you knock the intangibles. You can't argue with the factual data about the Viper, so you argue about the stuff that can't be quantified. Saying the Viper was a hack car because it didn't have a top or windows in it's first iteration is like saying the Corvette sucks because it only has 2 doors.

DUH!

[GIR]

They all seemed to have sliding windows when they first came out and you saw them on the dealer lot? Well, you're either lying or as Makara said, ignorant. Windows were not available for that car for a long time after it was released.

Second, you think a car without windows is a "hack"? Do you think all the Dodge engineers sat around trying to figure out how to put windows on the car and when they couldn't do it, they decided to just release it? The original Viper was an exercise in design and manufacturing by Dodge, using new materials and new design concepts. When it toured the show circuit, people fell in love, sent in checks and demanded the car be built AS IS. That is exactly what Dodge did, and the car sold like hotcakes. It takes some balls to make a car in this day and age with no windows and no top. The other cars that fall into this category are cars like the Shelby Cobra and the Ferrari 550 Barchetta. But they must be "hack cars" too right?

The Viper is not meant to be a grand tourer, and it's not meant to be a family car. It's meant to be a toy that you take out for fun and it does a better job of that than any other car I've ever owned.

You don't get what the Viper is all about, so you knock the intangibles. You can't argue with the factual data about the Viper, so you argue about the stuff that can't be quantified. Saying the Viper was a hack car because it didn't have a top or windows in it's first iteration is like saying the Corvette sucks because it only has 2 doors.

DUH!

First of all stop dissing on the Ferrari line-up with out getting all the facts. The 2000 550 Barchetta has it's 1996 counterpart the Maranello which does have windows and a roof. The Barchetta can be traced back to F1 and, suprise suprise, F1 cars don't have a roof or windows.

Ferrari's and Lambo's are also not ment to be tourers but they seem todo a much better job in giving you an overal package. Instead of dropping the biggest engine into the engine bay they do some thinking on which engine into which slot.

I'd say you don't get what the Viper is all about. I wonder if you've ever driven a real car like a Ferrari, if you have you'd know that the Viper is nothing in comparison to a italian stalion. You just keep ignoring facts and kling onto 10 year old design filosophies.

If you want big bored engine, I'll give you big bored engines. Just put the Viper along side of a McLaren F1, KoenigsEgg, Zonda, CL65, Enzo or Ferrari. What happend? I though the Viper was the Ultimate engine? In comparison to these cars it's suddenly nothing, just a little spec in the rearview mirror.

You know you guyz are no better then the ricers. You guyz are so ignorant it makes me sick. I wonder, do you have stickers on your Viper?

From where I'm sitting it looks like you are the one ignoring the facts. The only thing you know is: "I buy big engine, I buy fast car". Get this way of thought out your head and after that come discusse the Viper with me.

[thepolarfoxqx]

you call me a liar and ignorant? After a degree in mechanical engineering, a mensa card, and the fact I have been working on cars since before I was old enough to drive one, I am ignorant. Seems to me I get info on new cars pretty early, and pretty correct, but I'm still an ignorant liar right?

Yes, I am going at intangibles - like windows?

First off, Shelby cobra came out decades ago!!!

DECADES!!! It was a great car, still is, but I hope we have moved forward since the days when Carol Shelby dropped a big V8 in a little english sports car to make a legend.

The viper would have been a fantastic car 35 years ago, but today it is just kinda sad.

I am not sure where you get the idea it is fantastic on the track. I have test data here saying otherwise. I fail to see what is so remarkable about it.

The viper engine is not impressive in any other fact than it is impressively large.

Apparently this dodge dealer was intelligent enough to equip their cars with windows. Would it have been so hard to put windows in?

Every other civilized car has not trouble with it.

Faster cars, like a koenigsegg CC (it's 4.6L makes 142hp/l and has a flat torque curve - and it has yet to explode), or like a McLaren, but its engine has to wind way up, so it must be junk.

Now how about a real car, like a Ford GT.

Supercharged V8, a modern V8 no less, center engine, 0-60 in 3.5, and promises to be a champ on the track, it also has creaturec comforts such as windows, air conditioning, and heat. (ooooh , ahhh).

The pedals are even placed directly in front of you!!!

Apparently you people are masichists, you just enjoy painful cars.