SuperChager Vs TurboCharger

[Nitrous_Oxide]

Hey hows everything.

I need a bit of help here,could anyone tell me the diffrence between superchargers and turbochargers.and do superchargers have a kind of turbo lag?

thanx for your help.

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Hallo Nitrous_Oxide,

 

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[thepolarfoxqx]

Ok, here they are:

Turbocharger (short for turbine charger), it uses exhaust gasses passed over a turbine (wind mill if you will), to spin a fan on the intake side which pressurizes air into the engine. They tend to spin very very fast (sometimes more than 100,000rpms) and get very hot (they are cooled by oil from your engine). The lag on these is from the time it takes for the exhaust to get the turbo "spooled" up to its speed.

Supercharger: These devices are a set of fans driven by a belt from the engine. They spin as fast a 30,000 rpms, and are air cooled. It is a much more simple contraption, more or less just a belt driven intake fan.

Turbochargers tend to give more power in the mid levels (say 3,000-5,000 rpms on the average car) - where the turbo is in full efficency.

Superchargers give a lot of power off the line, say up to 3,000 rpms, above there they start to lose efficency and drag a bit on the engine.

Intercoolers are devices that cool air down after it leaves the turbo or superchager, these allow the air to be more dense when it enters the engine - allowing for more power. These are used in most turbos, and high end supercharged cars.

Superchargers do have "supercharger lag" - but it is different that turbo lag. Superchargers are not always engaged, so the breif moment needed for the supercharger to engage and get up to pressure is the lag time. In some cars, the supercharger engaging can be a violent event (though very fun). Turbos on the other hand tend to be more transparrent.

Superchargers (well, except for the ones on AMG cars) tend to make a loud whirring noise like that of a floor polisher.

Hope this helps.

[Nitrous_Oxide]

Thanx for your help.It was really helpfull

[T88TurboStang]

hehe gottal ove the turbo...especially when freeway racing.....hellyea

[thepolarfoxqx]

it depends, a turbocharged car usually does have more top end, which is always awsome, but some newer supercharged cars, especially ones with lyscholm compressors have fair top end as well though.

Turbos are no good for spur of the moment burnouts though.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Fox and T88, since you both seem to know so much about Turbos, I got a question: I'm not sure about this: do you know by how much exactly the milage of a car would decrease if you turboed an engine, by, say 50%? Or does it always depend on the type of motor and stuff like that?

[GIR]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/e-class-t/facts_m2.htm

You forgot about the biturbo.

The biturbo is basicly 2 turbo's after one and other. One if big and the other one is small. The small one doesn't need much power to get up to speed so while the big one is winding up the smaller one is already up-to-speed. thus reducing the affects of turbo-lag significantly.

Because of the (upto) 50% increase of air in the cyclinders theoreticly the engine could burn upto 50% more fuel. But in practice this figure ussualy stays around 20-40% because of several limitations.

[thepolarfoxqx]

audi has a setup where there is one turbo for each bank of cylenders, and they call that biturbo

i think your one with one big and the other small is sequential turbocharging, and is really hard to do well.

[izzyloveslizzy]

What if it was a W? Would they make it a tetra-turbo?

[thepolarfoxqx]

quad turbo, you could use 1,2, or 4 turbos on a W configuration.

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Hallo Nitrous_Oxide,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Zubehör für Verschiedenes über Autos (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Yeah but Quad-Turbo is already a "used" term, and since they call their version of the twin-turbo "bi-turbo", I though they might call the Quad-Turbo a "tetra-turbo".

[thepolarfoxqx]

isn't tetra 5 though?

[GIR]

audi has a setup where there is one turbo for each bank of cylenders, and they call that biturbo

i think your one with one big and the other small is sequential turbocharging, and is really hard to do well.

Yeah I'm not sure what they call it. The 1 turbo for each cylinder bank solution seems to be more common then the dual sequential turbo (the one where they put 2 turbo's after each other).

I'm not sure what they call them but biturbo seems to reffer to 1 turbo for each bank cause Mercedes also calls it biturbo.

[izzyloveslizzy]

No Fox, tetra is 4. Penta is 5.

[scaryfast]

Does anyone here know how to pressurize a carburetor in order to install a turbo? I know there is a pressure valve that is required, and I'd like to try to do it myself on a project. Thanks for the help.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Do yourself and install a fuel injection conversion if you want to put a turbo in.

Not only do you need some pretty elaborate solenoid valves, but also a high fuel pressurization system - one driven off manifold pressure to keep the system working under positive pressure. I have seen it done before, but I don't know all the specifics.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Fox could you answer my Q? I wrote a while back: "I'm not sure about this; do you know by how much exactly the milage of a car would decrease if you turboed an engine, by, say 50%? Or does it always depend on the type of motor and stuff like that?"

[GIR]

Uum I already answered that one:

Because of the (upto) 50% increase of air in the cyclinders theoreticly the engine could burn upto 50% more fuel. But in practice this figure ussualy stays around 20-40% because of several limitations.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Oh I'm very sorry I must've missed it GIR. Thanks for the reply. I know the rough basics, but I wanted to know what people's opinions on the "limitations" are, and what you think, for example, those limitations are. Also, that still technically doesn't answer whether or not milage would decrease accordingly.

[GIR]

Well the two big limitations are the ECU which doesn't allow to go more fuel into the cylinder and "knocking".

On most cars the ECU of the injection system is limited as a safeguard. Just incase a sensor is malfunctioning it won't flood the cylinder with fuel. A new ECU could solve this.

"Knocking" occurse when the fuel+air mixture becomes so explosive that it explodes before the cylinder is at the top. "Knocking" is very very bad for your engine. The only way to solve this is put less fuel in the cylinder or increase the cylinder capacity.

Other then these 2 there's also some laws of physics that apply. Like because of the increased pressure it's harder to squeeze in fuel. Some systems can't handle this so the fuel stays down. A injection system modification (like fox said) is always a good thing when you wan't to install a turbo.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Thanks for your 2¢. I could personally think of a few more reasons myself. I just wanted to know what the pros thought.

But it STILL didn't answer the core of my question.

[thepolarfoxqx]

actually, due to the properties of a hydocarbonous combustion chemical reaction, under pressure, less fuel is neccesary - as well as the fact that the car is not always running under high boost, so mileage impact should be less than hugely dramatic.

[izzyloveslizzy]

So you mean relatively less then? Suppose you double the power (through whatever method that delivers more fuel; this excludes NOS and intercooling and such methods), would the milage drop to about half of the original? And would emmissions double?

[thepolarfoxqx]

emissions get dicy with forced induction (turbos especially). NOS and Intercooling will get greater air pressure, how much fuel meets that is all in the fuel injection mapping and pressure regulation. You can certainly use turbos and get tons of power - and drop you mileage, or you can use them in moderation with little or no effect on fuel economy. Saab and Audi turbo cars usually deliver best in class fuel economy - with very competitive power - hard to beat.

[izzyloveslizzy]

I think if BMW made turbo cars they would beat all other turbo cars in economy. Their NA engines get better fuel-economy and lower emmisions per HP and lbs.ft. of Torque than any other engine. They deseve the praise they get.