Paddles or Stick... Which do you prefer?

[crimplover]

Call me old fashioned but I sure love the feeling of working a clutch and a stick! Even more so in an exotic car like a Lambo. Isn't the "EGear" In the Lambo and paddle shifting transmissions in other cars basically like having a "glorified" automatic? Is there any benefit to having one over the other? Or is it just personal preferance.

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Hallo crimplover,

 

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[LateNightCable]

Hi Crimplover, I noticed your name online earlier. Glad to see you joined in the forum. There is a difference between "manumatics" and the systems used by Lamborghini, Ferrari, BMW and a handful of others.

Transmissions commonly refered to as automanuals or manumatics are glorified automatics in that they have a "manual" mode which allows the driver to up or downshift instead of the transmission doing it, which is otherwise doing everything else. Depending on the system, this novel feature does a fair job of providing the driver with the best of both worlds. BMW's Steptronic I've found to be quite good.

Now the ones such as EGear are different. These are electrohydraulic transmissions, commonly refered to as "F1" gearboxes, since F1 racing is where the technology was first developed. These are fully manual gearboxes with clutches and everything like any other, only they are equipped with hydraulic actuators and highly advanced electronic programs to work the clutch and shift the gears for you at the touch of the paddles - Like a robot in your tranny. Pretty exotic stuff, it certainly helps to have this kind of gearbox as standard equipment on every car in Gran Turismo, no matter how old.

But I agree, there is nothing like rowing through the gears yourself with a good ol' fashioned clutch and stick, and feeling the pulsing machinery beneath your palm to make you feel like an active part of the car. It's a classic experience that I don't think will ever go out of style.

[crimplover]

LateNightCable,

thank you for the reply. I now have a better understanding of the electrohydraulic transmissions...(that's a mouthful) that are in these amazing works of art! I've been blessed with the opportunity to drive some of these exotic supercars and to learn more about them is something I love to do.

Thanks again!

[crimplover]

Here's another question:

since the "F1" gearbox transmissions are controlled electronically by computer, is having a clutch and stick trasmission harder on the engine, being that an "imperfect" human (no matter how good he or she is) is working the clutch instead of a "perfect" computer ?

[LateNightCable]

Good question.

You could say a straight manual transmission is more susceptible to possible damage, but in the hands of a driver who know's what they are doing, it really makes no difference. The system of an "F1" gearbox could be seen as a safety buffer of sorts, since it takes all clutch and shifting action out of the hands of an "imperfect" driver, but it's all relative. Some of the faster, more hardcore F1 boxes shift violently, which is going to be harder on the gears no matter what. But most of them on the market have various programs to choose from, including a full "automatic" mode.

[iroc-z89]

LNC-

So basically these "supercar transmissions" are really just glorified automatics where you get to shift @ the rpm you choose. Rather than tuning a torque convertor with a 2800 stall etc. Sounds more like an updated electronic/hydraulic semi-automatic. Similiar to what VW used back in the day?

Sorry for any idiocy these trannys are a little out of my price range. But it does really sound like a slow shifting(hydraulic... takes time to build up pressure), over-priced, "I can't work a clutch" transmission.

oh LNC clean out your PM box.

[LateNightCable]

Well, they will always be manuals, but with dual personalities. They can act like full automatics if you want them to, or like "auto-manuals" if you want to be more involved. Another way that "F1" boxes act like autos is that since they are hydraulically operated, they require warming up in order to perform smoothly. They can be rather harsh in cold tempertures.

But as for shift times, the whole system is such that gear changes can be made as fast or faster than a person would be able to, depending on the setting or mode. In the case of the BMW M3 with SMGII, the acceleration times versus that of the standard manual model are pretty much alike. Driving purists don't prefer them, but there would be even more of a stigma against these gearboxes if F1 racers didn't use them themselves. In terms of the buying market, their purpose is that of a racing inspired status symbol than anything else.

- Yeah, I know you tried to send a message, but I'm still figuring out how to delete old messages from my box with the new software.

[bleh]

a key point is that all the manumatics are different.

the smgII shifts cleanly, right when you want it to and so do a select few others. however, some, like that of lexus and most more affordable makes have a delay and are slushy.

they are all different. some are good and some are bad.

[LateNightCable]

True, although SMGII is not a manumatic, not in the way the Lexus E-Shift is. The SMG is a true F1 style manual, whereas the Lexus gearbox is an automatic, equipped with an F1-like system to simulate the feeling. This is why they are generally more affordable.

[crimplover]

If Ferrari has so much more F1 racing experience than Lamborghini. Why do Ferrai F1 gearboxes feel so harsh and choppy compared to Lamborghini's. Shouldn't it be the other way around? To me, the F360's and F430 both feel harsh while the Murcielgo's feel more smooth and controlled. Is there something to this or am I just totally off base and am showing my limited experience with these gearboxes?

(It's ok. Be honest, I can take it.)

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Hallo crimplover,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Lamborghini Murciélago (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[bleh]

for performance isnt harsh and choppy better? precision like a rifle bolt is a good thing right?f

[iroc-z89]

as above wouldn't the shift being more aggressive be better? Well performance wise, but not for the transmission.

[LateNightCable]

Ferrari's "F1" gearbox, is understandably pretty extreme, made for fast performance rather than refined and subtle shifts. I'm not aware of how fast the E-Gear is, but curiously, the hardware comes from Fiat Group subsidiary Magnetti Marelli, which supplies all such boxes for the rest of the group, including Ferrari, and some others. The major difference is that the software is from Lamborghini. So if E-gear is indeed smoother then perhaps Lambo found itself better at sofware than Ferrari.

Or maybe you drove the E-gear in a softer setting?

[bleh]

that wouldnt surprize me. from what ive heard, audis dsg is the best right now.

[crimplover]

-LNC

you know, to be honest, I don't remember what the murcielago's were set at. I guess that would make a difference. I do remember both the 430's were set on the sport setting. (I'm FAR from an expert!) but to me the murcielago's just feel smoother. I'll try to research lambos software and see if there's something to that "smoother feel" thing.

Thanks everyone for your info. You guys sure know your stuff

Can someone please tell me how to answer a specific post by displaying their quote in my post. Sure would love to know how to do that

[iroc-z89]

go to the bottom right hand corner of their post, click on the "quote" button.

[crimplover]

go to the bottom right hand corner of their post, click on the "quote" button.

Wow that was easy! Gosh I feel stupid. Oh well, at least I know now. Thank's iroc-z89