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Toyota Supra Twin Turbo vs. 3000GT


wanderer

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Why does that comparison seem outlandish?

I'll take it that you are serious. I'll also take it that you've been around the car world and driving for more than a decade. If you would be so kind and go out and grab all the hard core facts about the 3000GT such as most power on a stock short block, fastest time on any street driven car, fastest top speed of any car. Then I'll do the same for the Supra and yes I happen to own one, but it's not my favorite of the cars I have. I'll wait for your reply.

oh and I'm not here to say the 3000 bad.

yea i think they both have their major downsides despite being high power beasts, making it a good comparison

If you could for conversation sake. Can you give examples of the Supra's down sides? I'm genuinely interested in what you think.

its got traction issues like a fwd car. i have 2 friends with supras as their dds and with only basic boltons bolt ons they cant get traction till 4th gear. thats rediculous. you have to drive around on slicks for traction.

oh and I'm not here to say the 3000 bad.
i am :evil:
its got traction issues like a fwd car. i have 2 friends with supras as their dds and with only basic boltons bolt ons they cant get traction till 4th gear. thats rediculous. you have to drive around on slicks for traction.

i am :evil:

I know of most all the Supra owners in Jersey. Tell me their names and what color are their cars? A BPU Supra is not going to kill a good wide set of tires if the driver knows how to modulate the car out of the hole. I run 315's on the back and yea, I can break them with ease. But I don't need to shift at 7000rpm's each time either A Supra at 3300 lbs as run a 7.9 second time @ 180mph on Drag radials, so it's possible to do anything if you know the car and the traction conditions.

anthony martino and geoff... forgot his last name. black and silver. theirs are actually worth something. both maunal tt.

i also have a few other friends/ex-coworkers that have supras but they arent worked. ashley dawson, dan ulisse, and merideth forgot her last name. theirs are weak sauce though, 1 is auto/na, 1 is auto/tt the other is manual na.

breaking 315s loose is rediculous! but i would rather brake loose with wide tires, than drive a real pig, 3000gt

I'll take it that you are serious. I'll also take it that you've been around the car world and driving for more than a decade. If you would be so kind and go out and grab all the hard core facts about the 3000GT such as most power on a stock short block, fastest time on any street driven car, fastest top speed of any car. Then I'll do the same for the Supra and yes I happen to own one, but it's not my favorite of the cars I have. I'll wait for your reply. Oh and I'm not here to say the 3000 bad.

Yes, Im serious. Having never owned either, I've had little direct experience with either car, so I couldn't state their respective shortcomings, but I'm not talking modified or drag numbers anyway. I can tell you that the 3000GT and Supra TT are natural competitors though ( not outlandish ones ). For the fact that they offer a range of similarities. Both Japanese six-cylinders, similar vintage, engine displacement, almost identical power figures, both offered twin-turbo and six-speed manuals. Top models were both well above $40,000 when new, and they both could be classified as GT cars.

The major difference is that one is AWD, the other RWD and the Mitsu is the much heavier of the two. Regardless of which is better at what - and that would come down to who you ask anyway - the bottom line is, comparing the two is not outlandish at all.

Yes, Im serious. Having never owned either, I've had little direct experience with either car, so I couldn't state their respective shortcomings, but I'm not talking modified or drag numbers anyway. I can tell you that the 3000GT and Supra TT are natural competitors though ( not outlandish ones ). For the fact that they offer a range of similarities. Both Japanese six-cylinders, similar vintage, engine displacement, almost identical power figures, both offered twin-turbo and six-speed manuals. Top models were both well above $40,000 when new, and they both could be classified as GT cars.

The major difference is that one is AWD, the other RWD and the Mitsu is the much heavier of the two. Regardless of which is better at what - and that would come down to who you ask anyway - the bottom line is, comparing the two is not outlandish at all.

ok, I see your point which is more of a common sense point of view. The origin and standard OEM nomenclature is something hardly to compare when the cars have been discontinued for some time now. But if we wanted to go back that far, we could just archive a Motor Tread issue. But regardless of the passed none of the cars are brand new anymore, thus they will be compared as seen in the market today. Not many cars on earth can compare to a Supra once one takes the plunge into the after-market world. I'm not just saying that and sure you yourself have read up on them over the years. I've personally been around, driven them since 1996. But fell in love with a 300zx twinturbo and went that route first. Which by the way I still own my first one I bought in the 90's here today and it's still my favorite car.

I feel stock characteristic's are fine and all, but again. What's the point going back a decade ago? My imply was, what have the cars done since then? They are all GT cars. Through the " Gentlemen's Agreement " many years ago. Japan was regulated to not produce a car over 280hp. When the early 90's models such as the twinturbo Z came out. They kinda start to slip from that long term agreement. But the 3000GT VR4 didn't go to 320Hp until 1994. Same year it got it's upgrade from a 5 speed to a 6 speed. The Dodge Stealth's died after the 96 year. What the cars have shown since is no contest. A Supra is just a Superior car based on facts, not personal taste.

see thats my point though. it is a fair comparison. similar price, powerplant, place of production,(other p words :wink:) just the supra comes out on top :lol:

Well, I see where everyone would like to compare cars. We all do it. But comparing cars of the passed were everything has pretty much been there done that to them, makes the talks kinda short. A lot of people claim a 3000GT motor to be great, that is before it hits 60k miles. I have no experience with that, yet have seen a pattern from many forums over the years on the net. Many might know it, but Chrysler had a major role in the making of the 3000GT and that's why we know of the Stealth. Chrysler has worked with Mitsubishi before with Eclipse, Talon and Laser's. Mitsubishi and Chrysler had just ended their Starion / Conquest line and needed to keep up with Nissan at the time. So Chrysler released the Stealth in 1990 and the 3000GT was born in 1991. The cars never held the reputation of the 300zx with it's multi car of the year awards, the powerhouse of the Supra and the track star of the RX7. But Mitsubishi sold a lot of cars during it production, in fact 86,151 to be exact. Which happen to be around the same sales figure of the 300zx. Only the Z did it in 6 years of production. The Stealth sold another 65,303 cars in it's 6 year run. That's 151,454 cars total or also called " A dime a dozen ". As for the Supra, try a mere 11,239 cars. Of that, only 7,700 where turbo models. Now take all the natural disasters, thief, wrecks and owners keeping their car's for life, ones turned into race cars and that doesn't leave you with many to have. So you can see the rarity in them as well.

Where the 3000 will always fall short on power is the V motor they use. Like the 300zx, it too use's a 3.0 liter V6. Now knowing a turbo is an exhaust driven component. The motors are using two of them with one on each side being driven by only 1.5 liters, or three piston's. You can see where turbo lag and unusable power will be had the bigger you go in turbo sizes . This is why we don't see it as common as a Supra. The In line six is prefect at driving any turbo with in reason with all six pistons at the same time, all the time. It's motor is proven over 1000rwhp on a stock OEM block. It has also ran a 9 second time on a stock long block. It has netted a 8.4 second time at 163mph on a full weight, street driven car. In the Pro's using a Supra motor, it has run in the mid 6's at over 200mph. This is that same 3.0 liter motor. I've seen 300zx's try and move 800rwhp with good sized turbo's on their 3.0L V6 motors and the lag was unbearable. The cars just don't function like a turbo car should. The same would hold true for a 3000gt.

Nice lineup, what's with the drum set? :lol:

Both cars are older now, and modified turbo cars could very well out number stock ones by now, maybe. But stock is still the basis for everything. Anyway, I guess we're all in agreement in the long run, because I too happen to favor the Supra's assets over the 3000's. But about the V6 and straight-six twin turbo comparison. Any 3.0 six with twin-turbos could be said to use 1.5 liters or three cylinders to drive each turbo. I don't know the setup of the 3000GT, but I'm sure the sequential turbos of the Supra helps eliviate lag a great deal on top of the dynamically superior configuration of the inline-six.

and +400lbs.

good facts, nice cars, nice drum set :-))!

im guessing the rustang is the dd?

Yes, they are pigs, lol. Here's the VR4's

91 Curb Weight: 3791 lbs.

94 Curb Weight: 3803 lbs.

99 Curb Weight: 3737 lbs.

Their starting price was the low 30's and peaked at $44,500 by 97. But their was the 1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 Spyder for a ridiculous $64,000. Needless to say, it bombed in sales.

Supra's

93 Curb Weight: 3475 ( auto 10lbs heavier )

Pretty much staied in that area for all it's years of production.

The car was also price $8000 above the 3000GT VR4 topping out at $52,500 in 1995. Yet falling back down to the low 40's in 1997.

Thanks for the compliments and no the Rustang is not the daily, lol. I have a 2002 Expedition 5.7L 4x4 as well.

Nice lineup, what's with the drum set? :lol:

Both cars are older now, and modified turbo cars could very well out number stock ones by now, maybe. But stock is still the basis for everything. Anyway, I guess we're all in agreement in the long run, because I too happen to favor the Supra's assets over the 3000's. But about the V6 and straight-six twin turbo comparison. Any 3.0 six with twin-turbos could be said to use 1.5 liters or three cylinders to drive each turbo. I don't know the setup of the 3000GT, but I'm sure the sequential turbos of the Supra helps eliviate lag a great deal on top of the dynamically superior configuration of the inline-six.

Agree, the Supra uses a Sequential turbo design because it uses an inline motor. If it where set up as a true twin like the V motors. It's control be hazardous. With instant on line power not making the car safe on the open roads for most all average sport cars drivers. It uses as we have said all 3.0 liters to drive the turbo's at all times, thus the only lag it has it driving the RPM's up in the range to bring the second turbo on line. This is were the Skyline comes into play. As you know, it too carries an inline 6. So it's powerband is just as great as the Supra JZ, but the Skyline like the VR4 is AWD. making it the ultimate sports machine indeed. Instant boost response and AWD is hard to over take. But like most like AWD cars, they do not carry the topend of a RWD car. Just depends on what your looking for in a car. Plus the fact that a Skyline is not a US sold model and can't really be compared to the US market with a Supra. I say that because yes the cars are made and produced in Japan. But out of all the fastest, most powerful Supra's in the world. Nine out of ten are sitting here in the United States on average. Americans have taken the car to racing speeds and power that Japan has simply not put out. If you go to Supraforums.com, you'll see members from all over the world. This is what keeps this information fact. So if the Skyline where to ever be sold here, it's safe to say the cars would be flying. But their still never worth $90,000 ever in my book.

Aren't there people who run theirs in a true twin-turbo set-up? I thought there was a conversion.

Yes, the HKS and Greddy lines do carry a kit. But again running a HKS2835 or Greddy TD06/20g kit is running an 800rwhp car. Not many are going to want to try and handle a car like that. Supra's for the most part will stay with their stock OEM turbo's until going with a single turbo set up. It's far more cost effective and the stock twins can put out around 500rwhp, which is plenty for daily driving.

My car for example is being built with a SP77 turbo kit. Which really is a Precision PT-76 76mm turbo capable of 1100Hp, or 950+rwhp. It will not be an easy car to handle, but it's intent is to do some drag racing, but more topend runs in the 200+mph range.

If and when a Supra stays with a true twin turbo set up, it too will fall victim of not enough displacement. There are a very small group running turbo's larger than 2835's. In order to make the cars any kinda of streetable and still use the turbo's. They had to install a stroker kit raising the liters to 3.4 over the stock 3.0. This is an extremely costly way to go for the same output one can get from using a single turbo. I know a long time friend on here down in CA that has gone this route. He doesn't speak much of the cost and labor, might send him into depression, lol.

  • 2 Monate später...
the way i would approach this argument is strictly guns vs. butter. butter consumes money, guns get you back money. i will try to keep my bias out of this argument (mainly supras cant hook and 3000gt's are pigs, oops cant keep it out). back to guns vs/ butter. simple: around me every last generation supra in good condition is being sold for what it was bought for or more, where as the 3000gts are depreciating in value. guns = supra, butter = 3000gt.

Good point, 3000Gt's sucks. Supra's are still sealling for more or even the same. Personally I race against a 3000Gt and they suck, besides AWD is nice but let's talk about Subaru's AWD no Mitsu, and by the way don't even mention the Evo. Test drove it and a piece of S*** also ( turbo lag, not very good handling, noisy engine... ) :puke: S 2000 is way better and still did not like it. Anyway supras are one of the best sports cars I have ever seen. I wish I could land my hands on one of those to test drive , so far all I have heard are good things from them Supra's. peace :-))!

In all fairness, 12's on street tires is pretty good for most any car. Anyway, when did this become a debate of which is the better drag strip buggy??

1/4 miles aren't everything. Leave that to the blown big block cars with the slicks and traction bars. Most of which are capable of living on a diet of rice.

" Hooo-Ha! "

69_camaro_Z28_burnout.jpg

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