M3 vs. CORVETTE

[skyline_r34v]

numbers aren't everything

Learn from fox's quote Jterp. Numbers aren't shit but video is everything.

I never said M3 would whoop ass all over a ZO6 on the track.

But u act like the ZO6 would make silly of an M3 on the track jus cuz it pulls 1g skidpad.

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo g-unit marko,

 

kennst du schon M3 vs. CORVETTE (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

Sportwagen Kaufberatung Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | Sportwagen Kaufberatung Tuning (Anzeige) | Sportwagen Kaufberatung Uhren (Anzeige)

[kleinefisch]

I think that some of you don't want to believe that your beloved M3 could possibly be beaten by an American muscle car. The ZO6 owns in performance, hands down. You say that numbers are not everything. Well we have already established that the ZO6 is faster to 60 (based on numbers) and the difference between the ZO6's skidpad rating (a reliable and well founded number which accurately predicts a cars handling) and that of the M3 is greater that .1g's, which by the way is an enormous amount. A difference of .01 or .02 is not all about the numbers, but skidpad ratings are not that inaccurate. For a little perspective, the difference in skidpad ratings between the 02 Bentley Aranage (land yacht) and the F40 (well established super-exotic) is .14 g's. The Koenigsegg CC has a rating of 1.15, so 1.05 is pretty high up there. Numbers may not be everything when really close, but in this case, they are far from close. And don't try to defend M3 with "it feels so much better".

[kleinefisch]

Damn, double post.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i for one have spoken my peace on this dead topic.

[skyline_r34v]

http://auto.joins.com/upboard/pds/pdst/BestMotoring_350Z_Tsukubabattle.asf

I wonder how the Z06 would have done

I wonder wat the true outcum of the race would be if the damned skyline wasn't in the way.

[cmill]

About one or two months ago, I read an article in a Motor Trend magazine that compared a Dinan M3 to a standard M3. If I remember correctly, the Dinan M3 was capable of .96 G's. The test driver then stated that he has never driven a standard M3 that pulled more than .89 G's. Also, the M3 runs to 60 mph in 4.8 seconds. I have heard of one that was capable of 4.5 0-60 times...the test driver said that the car was hotter than normal.

The manual gear box is sweet, as long as you don't mistakenly put it in reverse when you intend to go forward, this is one problem BMW has to correct. I have never heard of a Corvette having this type of problem. I have also herd of M3's that have starting problems when the weather gets cold, not chevy. Neither does Chevy explicitly state that you must use $15.00 per quart specilized BMW oil or you void your warranty.

Numbers....The corvette C-5 is capable of 4.5 sec 0-60 times, it also pulls .95 G's (Z-51 suspension package)on the skid pad. None of the M3's times are equal. The M3 will give a standard Corvette a challange, but it is highly unlikly it will beat it.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the M3. It's a highly refined car that I can carry my entire family in and get somewhere quickly...there are 4 of us. I also intend to buy one with I turn 30 yrs old...my insurance will drop and a really bad speeding ticket will come of my driving record.

These cars are totally different, you have to decide what you are looking for. Comparing these cars is like comparing apples to squash, which one do you like the best.

Also, I can't figure out how to select a picture that shows up when I post. Could someone explain how to do this...thanks!!!

[reggid]

The only way to properly compare cars, that is:

M3 vs C5 or

M3 CSL vs Z06

is on the track, even skid pan numbers can be misleading. Tyres make a significant difference to overall grip levels the balance/traction essentially come from the suspension. Put an equivalent set of tyres and then you can compare cars and not which tyre manufacturer has the better softer rubber. Also peak skidpan values are not always the best guide since all corners are different, so you want consistent numbers that are easily achievable at the track. Has there ever been a head to head in one of the car mags.

[GIR]

The manual gear box is sweet, as long as you don't mistakenly put it in reverse when you intend to go forward, this is one problem BMW has to correct.

You're the first and probably the last person I will see with that problem. I would expect you to say that about a Ford transmission but not a BMW transmission.

[djfux69]

You're the first and probably the last person I will see with that problem. I would expect you to say that about a Ford transmission but not a BMW transmission.

i agree. the tranny has a lock that you have to push through to get into reverse. now way you will ever mistake reverse for 1st.

[thepolarfoxqx]

if you ever drove a bimmer, you'd know you'd have to try to pull that off

[Anzeige Amazon]

Hallo g-unit marko,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Sportwagen Kaufberatung (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[thepolarfoxqx]

if you ever drove a bimmer, you'd know you'd have to try to pull that off

[Cujo]

The only way to properly compare cars, that is:

M3 vs C5 or

M3 CSL vs Z06

With your logic one could compare a "top of the line" Saturn, with a top of the line Mercedes S-class. And still call it a fair comparison...

The only proper way, is to compare cars in the same price range! Which means that the CSL doesn't belong in this discussion. (The CSL cost over 30 000 € more than a ordinary M3)

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As for the M3 vs C5 Corvette on a race track. The Vette rules. Read it and weap! (It is a German site so it's hardly "Vette friendly".)

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

Press "COMPARISON". The M3 E46 is listed under "BMW M Gmbh". The C5 Vette is listed under "General Motors" (Not under Chevy).

N.B. The Z06 is not officially available in Europe (there are private imports though). The Corvette Commemorative Edition is a standard corvette (stock engine), with the Z06 chassie, and fancy paint work. Horsepower in Europe are measured with the DIN-standard, not SAE as in the USA. Thats why the numbers differ. We measure 0-100km/h. Thats about 0-62mph. Prices are shown in Euros (€) and include German sales tax (16%, yes sixteen, not 1.6. Sales taxes in Europe are INSANE. Some countries have 25%).

With regards to tuning.

The M3 is already highly tuned. It puts out over a 100hp per liter (1000cc) cylinder volume. It is a high power output for a naturally aspirated engine. Which means that there isn't much more power to be found, unless you wish to sacrifice a lot of reliability.

The vette has only about 60hp per liter cyl vol. Which means that there is room for plenty of increase, without sacrifying reliability.

Just my .02

[djfux69]

welcome cujo. excellent first post. i completely agree with your post. again welcome.

[skyline_r34v]

Ur .02 got cashed cuz ur link is broken and does not work.

[Cujo]

Ur .02 got cashed cuz ur link is broken and does not work.

Works just fine right now.

Corvette: Nürburgring; 8min 18sec, Hockenheim; 1min 15.9sec.

M3: Nürburgring; 8min 22sec, Hockenheim; 1min 17.6sec.

The vette was equipped with Goodyear Eagle F-1 tires. Which if you look at the tire dimensions appear to be the so called "run-craps" (-flat) tires that are normally fitted to the standard Corvette, this means that the vette would be even faster with a proper set of tires. Like the Michelin Pilot Sports that the M3 is fitted with.

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djfux69:

Thanx!

/

[skyline_r34v]

That's alil unfair the Com. Edition Corvette is €15,100 more than standard E46 M3.

Now dump €15,000 into the E46 M3, now ur speaking a whole different story.

U could be talkin bout a whole different comparison, then.

[Cujo]

That's alil unfair the Com. Edition Corvette is €15,100 more than standard E46 M3.

Now dump €15,000 into the E46 M3, now ur speaking a whole different story.

U could be talkin bout a whole different comparison, then.

The prices stated in "my" link are from the year 2000 for the M3. And from the year 2003 for the vette.

The current price for an M3 is 55,100€. That makes a difference of 11,000€. On the other hand when buying any BMW (or Mercedes) rule of thumb says you need to ad about 5,000€ to the sticker price, to get the "must have options". Othervise your car will have a lousy secondhand value, and will be hard to sell.

Plus, if you don't show a lot of character when the salesman present the options list to you... You'll pass 10,000€ worth of options, before you can say, oups! 15,000€ is not unrealistic (especially with a Mercedes).

The vette on the other hand comes with most things included (at least in Europe). The available options are (No prices available from the Chevy-europe website):

6 speed man gearbox (standard on the Corvette Com. Ed.)

Magnetic selective ride (Does it work with the Z06 chassie?)

Body-side moldings

Transparent Roof panel

Polished aluminum wheels

Multiple CD-player

Premium Colors (metallic)

Thats it!

The M3's option list is three pages long.

/

[skyline_r34v]

The current price for an M3 is 55,100€.

Well i'd hate to live where u live if that is the current base price.

Here last week i got a quote with every option i wanted for a 2003 and got quoted for $56,500+/-.

I went to Jackson (the capital) a day later and got quoted for same 2003 with same options for $53,280+/-.

That's with the Premium Package (BMW Assist, Nappa leather front dual power seats with lumbar and power moonroof) door side airbags, DVD/Nav. system, security system, Harman Kardon Audio with 6-disc CD changer, HID headlights and 19-inch rims in Leguna Seca Blue with Grey leather interior.

I can get a better deal savin a lil over $3,200 driving 100 miles than i could here.

They can afford to give better deals than here, being the capital and selling more.

Even here though its cheaper than everybody saying it'll be near $60,000 with options.

That's gotta suck i can get an '03 M3 with all my options almost for the same price as ur base asking.

Joys of living in a poor ass economy though, hehehe.

Some things r cheaper than others.

[thepolarfoxqx]

you laugh about prices now, the way the american dollar is doing compared to the Euro now, european cars are set to become more expensive here in a big hurry.

[Cujo]

Well i'd hate to live where u live if that is the current base price.

Here last week i got a quote with every option i wanted for a 2003 and got quoted for $56,500+/-.

I went to Jackson (the capital) a day later and got quoted for same 2003 with same options for $53,280+/-.

Somewhat OT, my apologies.

Smart people do not pay sticker price...

The price I quoted is from www.bmw.de since all the other prices in "my" link were German. That includes German sales tax 16%. If I were to buy an M3 it would be even more expensive, since Sweden has a sales tax of 25%. Like I wrote earliar its INSANE.

But still I'm glad I don't live in Norway or Denmark. They have luxury tax on cars, and 25% sales tax on top of that. I think Danmark is probably the most expensiv car country in the world. Bmw.dk didn't have the guts to post their prices, but Volvo did...

How about a sticker price of 459,795DKK for the cheapest Volvo V70? Thats roughly US$76,600! Or why not a V70R AWD w/aut. transm. It will set you back 1,183,995DKK. Brace yourself: US$197,300.

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As for comparing the Z06 with the M3, I got the impression from the earlier posts that they at the same price level in the US. The "European" Corvette Com. Edition is basically an Z06, without the stronger Z06 engine. (The price is probably inflated just because it is a special edition.) So a real Z06 would outrun the M3 even more, than the Com. Ed. did!

/

[reggid]

With your logic one could compare a "top of the line" Saturn, with a top of the line Mercedes S-class. And still call it a fair comparison...

The only proper way, is to compare cars in the same price range! Which means that the CSL doesn't belong in this discussion. (The CSL cost over 30 000 € more than a ordinary M3)

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but according to you the m3 and 911 aren't rivals since the 911 is 35% dearer than the m3 and similarily the 360 is 25% dearer than the 911 tt where i come from, and we both no that they are rivals. So my conclusion is that anything goes when making comparisons.

I think the m3 is better overall and more useable. i also probably wouldn't take it to the track anyway, so who cares if its a little slower.

Can someone explain to me how the m3 is slower by 1.7s at hockenheim but only 4 sec slower at the ring doesn't quite add up if you ask me. It should be about 6 times 1.7s = 10+/- seconds if you consider that the laptimes are 6 times longer at the ring.

[daugbjerg]

I think Danmark is probably the most expensiv car country in the world. Bmw.dk didn't have the guts to post their prices, but Volvo did...

How about a sticker price of 459,795DKK for the cheapest Volvo V70? Thats roughly US$76,600! Or why not a V70R AWD w/aut. transm. It will set you back 1,183,995DKK. Brace yourself: US$197,300.

In Denmark we have the baseprice + 180% and then VAT 25%, so it's very expensive, and it is getting worse. Car manufactures have sold cars in Denmark, with a big rebate, but that is gonna end now, because of EU.

[djfux69]

my sister lives in denmark, mostly she rides her bike.

[thepolarfoxqx]

gee, i always thought living in denmark would be cool till i heard that. How do afford to drive at all, where is all the cost coming from? American cars just go 40% cheaper to europe, lol. The weak dollar hurts european imports to the US, but in terms of cars, the japanese are hurting like no one else due to how crucial price point is to their market segment.

Oh well.

I think the current administration is ignorant, arrogant, and destructive, and their weak dollar is just one of a ton of things they've done i disagree with

[LateNightCable]

So much for Vette vs. M3 , now we're onto politics.

Next week, RELIGION!