M3 vs. CORVETTE

[g-unit marko]

what do you guys prefer

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Hallo g-unit marko,

 

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[LateNightCable]

Hasn't this one been done before? Oh well, I would go with M3 because I would want an all around great performer, with a fine finish, and regular car pacticality.

For track use, if I were to go to a track, I would be tempted by that big V8 Vette.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i'll seccond the notion. While the big V8 would be good for the track, i've known people to shave 200lbs from their E46 for track days. If i were serious about track use i'd get a dinan upgrade kit (for a mere couple grand) for it anyhow, get up to 380hp.

The build quality, ride quality, interior quality, level of techonology, level of features, level of prestige, level of saftey features, level of practicality, level of refinement and level of balance all go to the M3.

Price:

As of the 2004 model year, the vette is now cheaper, with a sticker base of just shy of 45k, the m3 stickers for 48k. It should be noted though that if you equip the corvette with all option neccesary to bring it up to par with a base M3, it would no longer hold a price advantage.

As for 0-60, GM rates the vette to 4.9, BMW rates M3 to 4.8.

As for quarter mile, since neither company releases this data, i figured i'd go get the best reccord numbers from a regional track for each of these cars.

The corvette coupe turned a 13.61 while the M3 got a 13.80 (data from the california speedway), so the M3 edges vette to 60, vette edges M3 in the quarter, pricewise they are neck and neck (and don't go giving me all this "well my buddy the chevy dealer can get me one for 44k and i couldn't find an M3 for under 51k, the BMW dealers are not charging above sticker.

world wide the M3 also outsells the vette. Consumer reports also gives the M3 a higher quality rating than the vette.

It seems to me the M3 would be a clear choice, but i might be biased, i grew up around BMWs, and to me they've always had a classy and sporty appeal, they look just as right on the track as they do at the best 5 star resteraunt in town. The vette just seemed overstated in comparison. vette isn't a bad car, but i like the higher luxury, better quality and ergonomics, as well as superior engineering that goes into M3.

You tell me that just because it takes a vette 5.7L to do what M3 does with 3.2 doesn't make M3 better, you're right, but it makes M3 better engineerred, and to me that is also a huge selling point.

[jterp]

So we're doing this in two different threads now?

In my area M3's are getting full MSRP -- and to find a "base" on a lot is nearly impossible (and remember, "base" has cloth interior, no sunroof etc.. -- not nearly as "refined" as fox would want.) IN real life you can't leave a dealer with an M3 for less than 52k. (in washington DC area). For 52k you get a z06. I like going to the track and using my car in acceleration contests. I do not need "practicality" becuase I keep an everyday car for when the weather is bad or I need extra space. My fun car is just that -- fun (read not practical). I don't care about how small and efficient the motor is and I do not care how "new and technologically advanced" the technology is. I care which car will perform better on the track. The technology used in the vette may be older, but that does not mean it is inferior. I don't care if cavemen developed the suspension in the vette, it handles better and gets around the track quicker than the M3.

z06 vette vs. m3 in the performance category is no contest -- neither is my decision.

[thepolarfoxqx]

see, and that is how we are different. And these two cars perform so close together that the driver would make the difference anyhow.

And the ZO6 can't be had for under 53k from what i can see from their site, and that is with ZERO options, and the M3 doesn't come stock with cloth seats either. Refinement isn't leather and a sunroof (though i woulnd't buy any sort of car without both of those), refinement is having an engine that doesn't vibrate like my dryer.

[skyline_r34v]

My simple thing is i hated both of them so i can't be biased.

I've always hated BMW's becuz they were ugly back then and their power was sad becuz of weight.

The M-series is the only thing that made me really like the BMW's, i knew they could untap the potential for power in their motors.

The vette's on the other hand i've always hated and sumwat still do til this day.

The vette's to me were always ugly and way to loud for their own good.

Plus i'm not big on "american muscle" when yeah the engines r fuckin huge but so is the weight.

When it cums to choosin i'd definitely choose the M3, mainly becuz there's always Dinan and other's to pull out more power and u can always put a heavy car thru a diet.

Plus u got refinement and luxory (wat left u want in there after the diet) to boot.

[kleinefisch]

I think many of the people who buy the Vette do so because of its image. The M3 has no image whatsoever comparwed to the Corvette. The Vette came out in the early '50s and has lasted ever since. There are car companies can't boast that fact. And you can say that buying for image is rediculous, and to you, it may be, but it has a lot to do with the desireability of the car, which is what it comes down to in this car as they are so close in performance. My father-in-law grew up in the hayday of Cadillac. When they were the best of the best. He could never afford one, but now he can and for the last 15 years, he's been buying them every year or two, even though there are far better buys and despite the fact that he's always complaining about something about it. I read a review on the '02 Vette (or close) and Consumer Reports gave horrible reliability, noise, value, economy, and practicality ratings, but one of the highest fun factors and customer satisfaction ratings of cars today. That's deffinately worth something.

Jterp has a point. Most likely, a person with the descressionary income to buy Corvette, has another car which has the luggage space, etc.

[g-unit marko]

well said polar when I finished school and my dad asked me what i wanted i thought corvettes were nice cars but then since grade 8 my dream car was the M3 so I had a buddy with a vette Z06 and i drove it a couple times to see really how far i could push it . I was really impressed performace wise but the comfort and interior is terrible. Then i drove a M3 conv it was 2001 and after the covette the M3 was even better then i ever dreamed of plus it was open roof and the look is much better. Then u think ummm what do i buy a CHEVY or a BMW lol the vette is a big 5.7L and only makes 405 Z06 but then the M3 I6 which makes 333hp so there u go chevy needs a big v8 to compete with the BMW I6 and still isnt any better in my oppinion in any way just the price. I was thinking of putting the M5 engine in my M3 which some people already know here then with a 4.4L V8 the corvette could eat dust and just look at me fly away. And finally i have a back seat not much room but u can fit ur buddys for a lil crusie to pick up ladies.

[LateNightCable]

When Fox says the Corvette lacks the " image " or " level of prestige " of the M3, I think thats' non-sense. The Corvette has quite the image, and is quite prestigious. Everyone knows what a Corvette is, they know what the name means, what it signifies. You go ask your Grandmother about the M3, and she'll probably say something like " They make the Scotch tape right? " The Corvette name means a whole lot. And the M3 is standard with leather, with " M-Cloth " inserts. Full leather is optional.

That engine that vibrates like a dryer Fox, happens to be a big part of the Corvette experiance. A vibrating engine might be considered a huge flaw on the M3, but not here. Thumping V8 + Corvette = just the way it should be, and not bad at all.

[g-unit marko]

my bad almost 5L M5 engine

i donno i may be biased because i really hate amerian cars the only thing that impressed me was the vette but then BMW is the thing to go with . Amercans are only good at making big heavy duty trucks my dad has a f-350 heavy duty diesel truck and its amazing but for cars americans cant out engineer the europeans

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[jterp]

Wow...deja-vu...

AS i said in the other thread with this exact same topic -- the corvette and the M3 appeal to two entirely different markets. The M3 is for the enthusiast who is willing to sacrifice performance for creature comforts like a fancy dash board and whatever else goes along with the overused word "refinement". The corvette is for people who want a loud exhaust note. We want to be able to work on our "outdated" motors ourselves. We want massive amounts of power and torque. If we wanted a fancy dashboard and a big trunk and a backseat for picking up the inlaws from the airport and were willing to give up a level of performance for it, then yes, we would buy the m3. I don't want that though. To me a sports car and a practical car are two different things -- If i am buying a sports car, I want it to be the best performing car available in that price range -- in this case it's the z06 vette.

Edited to say:

i donno i may be biased because i really hate amerian cars the only thing that impressed me was the vette but then BMW is the thing to go with . Amercans are only good at making big heavy duty trucks my dad has a f-350 heavy duty diesel truck and its amazing but for cars americans cant out engineer the europeans

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you make a comment like this?

Fox, the difference in performance between the z06 and the M3 in massive. Are you telling me that a 1 second difference is quarter mile times is negligible? (Yes, the z06 runs 12.8 1/4 miles --- FACT).

[GIR]

You know this reminds me of that movie LNC put up on the BMW forums. You know the one with the M3 being chased by the ploice Corvette (was it a Corvette?).

[thepolarfoxqx]

like kleinefisch said, the corvette got the worst reviews by consumer reports for quality, noise, reliability, and fuel economy, but it is a ton of fun. The M3 is reliable, fairly quiet, and its gas mileage might not be great, but atleast you can take a decent quantity of luggage and passengers around with it.

Refinement means when i turn the stereo knob it doesn't come off. refinement means my vette doesn't have the same everything on the interior as a blazer. refinement means it doesn't shake and rattle (every corvette i've been in has rattled). refinement means you can drive it like a luxury car and pull it off.

As for image, atleast in the world i grew up in, the corvette was sort of a redneck type of car. you didn't take a corvette to the country club, it was distasteful, but a big fast mercedes, bmw, or jaguar was all the rage, and still is. The M3 has panache, vette does not. vette has an image, but doesn't have class, that's part of it's selling point, it's bad ass, it's overstated. The M3 can be badass, but doesn't have to scream it. atleast most of the car enthusiasts i know hold the M3 as the pinnacle of cool cars. And my grandmother knows very well what an M3 is. I am fortuneate enough to have grandparrents alive on both sides, and on both sides they have been driving mercedes' since the 70s. both sides have an E-Class. they would both know an m3 well.

[skyline_r34v]

You know this reminds me of that movie LNC put up on the BMW forums. You know the one with the M3 being chased by the police Corvette (was it a Corvette?).

No your thinking about the 15 yr old lil boy in the E36 M3 outrunning the Police LT1 camaro.

The police don't use corvette's or none that i've ever known/heard bout.

[SERGIOE34]

That is not hard at all.Id take the M3 in a second, for a number of reasons.Ive driven both zo6 and M3 and the vette was realy fun and better than i even thout it would be.But when i drove the M3 theres absolutely no contest.To me the M3 just feels 100 times better and completely out classes the vette.The M3 is in a whole nother leage to me it kinda made me feel special when i drove it.

[jterp]

Consumer Reports gave horrible reliability, noise, value, economy, and practicality ratings

I would really like to see this report -- sounds fishy to me -- reliability? I've never known a C5 to be unreliable -- It can't be that bad as it just won C&D 10 best --again.. Weren't E46 M3 motors blowing up for a while? Noise? corvette owners like loud pipes. It's a performance car -- it's going to shake and rattle. The vette does it, every M3 I've ever been in has done it, every viper I've been in has done it. If you want cushy then buy a Mercedes. Value? Isn't value a speculation unique to each consumer based on what characteristics they hold important? Economy? No matte how bad the vette's economy is, the M3's is worse. Practicality? we've been over this -- we're not using the vette as a moving van.

you didn't take a corvette to the country club, it was distasteful, but a big fast mercedes, bmw, or jaguar was all the rage, and still is. The M3 has panache, vette does not. vette has an image, but doesn't have class, that's part of it's selling point, it's bad ass, it's overstated

Some of us don't buy cars based on what Muffy and Buffy down at the CC will think. Again, if this is important to you then by all means the M3 is for you -- You apparently do want a a car that everyone else likes and are willing to sacrifice performance to be accepted by these people. If you wanted the best performing car in the low 50 thousand dollar price range, you would buy the z06. -- I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here, just sticking up for an opinion that seems to be a minority on this board.

FYI fox that last statement showed a great deal of real word ignorance. This isn't caddyshack, buddy -- No one in the real world thinks like that.

[g-unit marko]

Jterp you may think the corvette Z06 is a better car but its not, performance wise i donno how much performance u sacrafice wiht the M3 becasue i can still keep up with the vettes and sometimes even overtake them, plus i drive a BMW and not a CHEVY, the looks are much better then the vette, the vette if u decide to sell which many people do I dont no why if its such a good car :roll: , no back seat again plus the interior of the bimmer is like comparing a kia and a benz. So now dont tell me the vette is better then the M3 when the M3 is better in everything and as equal in performace as the vette. 5.7L V8 equal to the 3,2 I6 now thats engineering my friend

[thepolarfoxqx]

I grew up in a "caddyshack" world then, because i spent a great deal of my youth at the country club, and that was the general atmosphere we and our freinds and family had about on the matter. BMWs were sophisticated cars, they have class, the corvette is isn't. It's like a polo vest or a leather jacket, both keep you warm, both are stylish - but to different people - for different reasons. The leather jacket cause it says i'm badass, and has a tough look to it, the Polo Vest because it is sophiticated, elegant, and understated. In my little world, the polo vest is consdiddered in, and the closest you come to a leather jacket is a brown bomber when you go out for a night at the pub.

Real world ignorance? maybe, but that was how i was brought up. I do laugh quite a bit at it now, but being raised a certain way sticks with you.

And give up performance to impress muffy and buffy, i think we've established that for 3k more than a stock vette, you get even performance, it it's performance isn't so vastly lesser than ZO6 that it would be earth shaking. Plus, muffy and buffy are pretty cute, so after my M3 impressed them, i'd have room to take BOTH home with me.

And M3's don't vibrate on idle, they don't shake the car so much that the dash board rattles (5,500-6,000 rpms the corvette feels like it's going to shake itself to death, the M3 revs to 8k with out any severe vibration.

Inline sixes are balanced very well, especially the BMW ones.

And BMW extended all cars built during the time they had engine difficulties warrantees to 100,000 miles.

100,000 miles on the M3 engine, 36,000 on the vette motor.

60,000 miles bumper to bumper on M3, 36,000 on the vette

Free scheduled maintanance for first 5 years of 60,000 miles on M3, bupkus on vette.

Clearly BMW has more faith in the quality of their product, in fact i think the warrantee and scheduled maintanance alone negate the price difference betweeen them.

i can accept liking loud cars. I like loud cars (well, some of them - not like fart pipe equipped civics), but ones that shake and rattle just aren't acceptable for that much money.

[jterp]

G marko - I can't find a complete sentence or rational argument in your entire post. As far as I can tell, you think you are correct but offer no reason why. I will reply in that same manner (but much more coherent) I am right, you are wrong.

Fox maybe you need to leave your town and see the rest of the country -- The country clubs I've been to have been much less '80's comedy movie' than the one you are describing. The people are much less like the stereotypes that usually precede them -- normal people that know just as much as you or I...

Also, didn't you grow up in the 80's ?? I think we can all agree that the modern say C5 is a much more respected car than the 80's corvette..

But I digress.

And give up performance to impress muffy and buffy, i think we've established that for 3k more than a stock vette, you get even performance, it it's performance isn't so vastly lesser than ZO6 that it would be earth shaking. Plus, muffy and buffy are pretty cute, so after my M3 impressed them, i'd have room to take BOTH home with me

.

I'm not sure what you mean here. What we have established is that a base corvette performs slightly better than the M3 for cheaper. For the price of a moderately equipped M3, you can buy a Z06 that is performs A GREAT DEAL BETTER THAN THE M3. YES, it does. That is a fact. In every test you could give it (except 50-70 in 6th gear) the Z06 will perform noticeably better than the M3.

POINT ----> If given a chance to buy a car in the low $50 thousands, THE BEST PERFORMING choice would be the Z06 corvette. A more practical but less performance minded choice would be the M3.

[thepolarfoxqx]

for 55k, the highest performing stock car you can buy is the ZO6. I believe the best car you can buy to be the M3, which has 5/6 of the performance, much higher quality, refinement, and more room for muffy and buffy than the ZO6, but that's just my opinion.

And not all country clubs are like that. Every one i've been to has been pretentious, and i am a product of the 80s, and in the 80s, the corvette was called by consumer reports "the lowest build quality of any north american produced car" aside from just generally coming off as cheap, red-neck, and sorta cheeky.

You seem to be looking down on my Jterp, i won't theorize on why.

The vette still doesn't have the class or prestige a 911, an M3, a CLK55, or a boxster holds. they have improved greatly since the 80s, but i don't think they are there yet. Maybe the C6 will be what is needed to change things.

I grew at the mountain brook club in mountain brook alabama, a town with the seccond highest average networth in the US (2nd to new canaan,ct), and this was the most pretentious club in town. If it seems stereotypical, that's because it was. It was every bit the nose in the air old fashioned and traditional southern country club. Moving out of the south was an eye opening experience to say the least. I've definately gained perspective since being an angry kid in a tennis outfit, in fact i'm the only democrat in my family. I'm just saying as strange as the world i grew up in is, and even though i'm not really into the whole thing, how you were raised sticks with you. I was brought up around lots of cars, and it was always without saying that a jaguar, a mercedes, a bmw, or to some extent an audi (much more now than then), was a good car. it had class, sophistication, the things that were important. corvette was looked down upon. I've grown up and seen that there is quite a bit of merit to a corvette, it is sporty and has the performance, but the interior, the classiness, and the practicality of the car still count to me. call them my "car values", i value having seats for both muffy and buffy .

[jterp]

Not lookin down on you at all, fox. It just seems that sometimes you take those things that YOU learned through YOUR experiences and try and pass them off as the way the rest of the world sees them. I'm just here voicing an opposite opinion.

I personally don't care what anyone else, no matter who they are or what clubs they've been to, thinks. I buy for me and what I want -- If you've got the balls to back yourself up you don't need anyone else's approval. Chances are you'll even have a few copycats...

And why do you keep screwing with the factual numbers? A Z06 vette at MSRP is $52,3xx.. (not 55) which is almost EXACTLY IN THE MIDDLE RANGE OF THE M3 MSRP.

I would not advocate the Z06 so hard if it were not an OUTSTANDING PERFORMER. Mid 12's in the quarter mile? That is WORLD CLASS PERFORMANCE (a full second ahead of the M3) from a $52k domestic car -- What other cars offer sub 13 second quarter miles (in stock form) ? How much do they cost?

And you better believe I would expect a hell of a lot more from BMW than a lousy warranty extension if the engine of my $52k dollar M3 blew up after 10k miles.

(Gotta love that refined build quality blah blah blah..)

[LateNightCable]

for 55k, the highest performing stock car you can buy is the ZO6. I believe the best car you can buy to be the M3, which has 5/6 of the performance ( of the ZO6 ) much higher quality, refinement, and more room for muffy and buffy.

We're finally establishing some truth here on both sides. You believe the M3 to be the best buy for reasons of practicality and quality, but admit that the ZO6 does have greater ultimate performance. And surely a whole lot more potential for even higher performance than even the M3. This is all true, and the Vette does gain a bit of an advantage from being a dedicated sportscar.

I don't think the Corvette has ever had a " bad " reputation among the general public, or car circles. As I recall, a C4 was never a bad thing to have in the 80s'. Everyone who knows better knows that the Vette is an intentionally raw deal, the body is basically plastic afterall. And personally I would feel proud driving by a country club, and flipping off those jackoffs in their Euro status rides they probably don't know how to utilize the capability of worth a damn. And knowing that I could absolutely waste whatever their driving with a modest assortment of mods to the Vette. It's a good feeling to be a black sheep sometimes. People admire the courage to revel in that, even if they don't say it.

So it comes down to this, M3 is the best " total package " and ZO6 is the best " road rocket " for the money. And the Corvette is not that impractical, it has a decent amount of cargo space, hatch in the coupe, and a real trunk in the ZO6 and convertible. And if Muffy and Buffy like you enough, Buffy won't mind riding with the groceries, or on Muffy's lap.

By the way, doesn't Jupiter Island Florida count as the #1 richville? Or maybe thats' just real estate value.

[jterp]

LNC... always the voice of reason.

Montgomery county maryland is pretty far up there on that list as well.

And I already had muffy and buffy - chics dig old mopars 8)

[skyline_r34v]

Ok jterp u REALLY confuse the shit outta me.

Since your so diehard bout the corvette better than the M3.

Then how cum u don't have a '99 Corvette in ur car pool instead of that '99 M3.

I think ur car pool says wat u TRUELY feels the best or else u'd have a corvette there and not a M3.

Cuz it seems 2 me like u've already made ur decision along time ago riiiiiiiiight?

[kleinefisch]

Jupiter Island is the highest concentration of wealth in the U.S. i believe. Exactly what that intails, I don't know. All I know is that I could never stand living there. I drove through there once and you see all the old Palm Beach, 3rd+ gen. wealthy, butler commanding, "philanthropists" in their classic Rolls with the Vanity plate of "MYTOY". Talk about stereotypes. Never lifted a finger in their life (most of them anyways). Greg Norman, the golfer/entrepeneur, lives there and he's got 13 Ferraris in his garage, maybe not too bad of a neighbor after all.

I believe there is far more you can do with your Vette than your M3 by the way. I would get the Vette over the M3, then bring it down to Lingenfelter (God rest his soul) and walk out with "viele" horesepower. I think more than you could manage with Dinan or Hartge. And as to how others would look upon you with a Vette at the CC, tell them to deal with it. I always liked Rodney Dangerfield's attitude in that movie anyways. Drive the Vette right up on the fairway!