New Corvette

[thepolarfoxqx]

but i think GM has everything in house to do it for the same price they are doing it for now, and if it cost them 2 or 3 grand more, i'd find it worth it.

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Hallo Hula-Hula,

 

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[jterp]

I see your point and do understand that you like the corvette -- my only point is that liek the old saying "if it aint borke dont fix it ... " -- In its price range the corvette is the best performing car -- it obviously aint broke if nothing can beat it.. so why change it? Believe it or not, the folks who are buying the corvettes LIKE the pushrod engine. They LIKE the leaf spring suspension ... why change it just because the Europeans do?

[LateNightCable]

Yeah, personally I like the idea of riding on a mono leaf spring, it's kinda cool, like a Citroen that rides on hydraulics. We understand that you like the Corvette and all, but you seem to have a real beef with the leaf and pushrod, why? It would be one thing if the performance of these items were lousy, but they aren't.

I think GM is willing to make a few exceptions for the Corvette, because it's charictor and heritage is so strong. The same way Porsche has stuck with that funny little rear engined car of theirs all these years. If keeping the hard edged American flavor of the Vette means forgoing slick modern technology that every European car is using, then I don't mind one bit. In fact that just makes a Corvette victory more sweet. European cars are clean and modern, and the Corvette is a strong stubborn old mule that won't change it's ways. I like that.

[SERGIOE34]

My road and track road test summary has the m3 at 13.3@106.8 and the vette at 13.4@107.5 so i thout the m3 was faster.

[jterp]

dont believe everything you read

[SERGIOE34]

so i assume you did this test on a track and got your own stats then right.

[LateNightCable]

Ultimately the Corvette is faster either way with a top speed of over 170 mph., where as the M3 is limited to 155.

On the subject of the big old Corvette pushrod motor, on top of providing ample thrust evenly throughout the rev range, it's EPA fuel economy rating compares favorably to that of an M3.

19 mpg. City 28 mpg. Hwy. for the manual Corvette, versus 16/24 for the manual M3. More cylinders, and bigger displacement, and the Corvette still gets better gas mileage. I'm a die hard BMW M fan, but I know that fuel isn't going to last long being burned at the rate the S54 can burn it at.

And on the note of the Vette suspension. A recent feature on the car is Magnetic Selective Ride Control which controls wheel and body motion through the use of an electro-magnetic coil in each shock absorber which can change the consistancy of the fluid inside, to provide continuously variable damping. The only European maker that I know of who might have a feature such as this, if at all like it, is Mercedes. You see, working with what you have, and dealing with the issues you might face with a mono leaf suspension, leads to unique advancements you may not have come across had you used those coil springs.

[jterp]

Sergio i did not mean to sound harsh in my reply-- I am simply speaking of the real world performance of these cars as those that drive them see it. I frequent the BMW boards and know that the guys who are drag racing the E46 M3's are having trouble turning times lower than 13.8 - 13.9 in their stock manual transmission cars. The guys with the SMG's seem to get more into the 13.6 range.. With the addition of cold air intakes and high flow exhausts they begin to run into the low 13's

I have drag raced a stock manual transmission c5 and know that it has no trouble running a quarter mile in the low 13's. With a few bolt on mods a c5 can run 12's...

[SERGIOE34]

Watever i realy dont car witch one is a couple of tenths faster.Id rather have the m3 over the vette for a number of porsonal reasons.thats just my opinion and what i would do.I have driven both an i think the vette is very fun.I just liked the m3 better.

[thepolarfoxqx]

the M3 with the speed governor removed can run up to 174mph.

and do you have any idea how much one of those magnetic shocks costs to replace?

All of the big european makers have them in their large sedans, and actually, vovlo's 4C system is more advanced and sophisticated yet than the GM one in corvette.

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[LateNightCable]

All the big European makers have them in their large sedans, and Chevy has it in there little sportscar. Well hopfully you won't have to go replacing those very often, and I'm sure they don't cost any more to replace than their European counterparts, don't tell me that can't get pricey. And there is no stock Volvo with a Four C chassis thats' going to take a Vette anyway. A Corvette ZO6 will run at least 174 straight off the block.

On the subject of the C6 though, it's pretty stale looking. You almost have to look twice to see that it's not a C5. The designers need to get some kind of inspiration and a set of new clothes for that frame. I look at the bare chassis, and see so much potential for a drop dead gorgeous car.

[skyline_r34v]

I'm sry to tell u jterp that ur wrong bout the corvy beatin the m3 in 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

When i was in memphis 2.5 weeks ago a both stock '01 m3 and c5 corvy went up against each other.

I saw with my own eyes corvy got took str8 from the get-go and was laggin the whole way thru.

They were both manual and the m3 was not a csl.

So i can personally say that the corvy was/is slower than the m3 plus 3 ppl short of ppl carryin space.

I also happen to REALLY care bout the interior.

For sumthing i'm goin 2 be lookin at the most, i'd want a luscious interior if i gone shell out $45k.

Yes the interior of the corvy is sad, i owned a 99 cavalier until i totalled it out and its the same layout.

The radio looks exactly the same as the one in my old cavalier and has every option it had.

The interior of the corvette looks real cheap and it sucks.

As for pushrod engines?

I don't havva prob with them that much its jus that they're LOUD.

And their bite is not as bad as their bark. Take the mustang for instance.

Their GT is a "small block" pushrod V8 and its still slow.

I'd jus rather have a very nicely tuned V6 like the M3 rather than sum big pushrod V8

that the mustang is still bein 33hp (mach1) less and is only superior if supercharged (SVT).

I don't know hardly jack bout the leaf spring suspension.

Actually i don't know shit bout suspensions at all, thats 1 of my weak spots and i need 2 work on.

And u can easily take off the Speed Limiter to increase Top Speed.

[jterp]

Skyline - One race is one race and a lot of variables factor into a single run. I'm speaking in general -- with knowledge taken from a much larger sample.

I respect all of your opinions and am not trying to change anyone's mind - the reason i spoke up is this: YOU GUYS all dislike the big, loud, simple pushrod engines, YOU GUYS are all willing to trade a level of performance for a nicer interior, YOU GUYS assume that newer technology means better technology, YOU GUYS all prefer the M3.. For some reason on this board it seems that a car that is designed without these same ideals in mind is looked at as inferior or "outdated"

I spoke up to represent the guys like myself who prefer a big, loud, throaty pushrod v-8. We like excessive amounts of power and torque and tuneability. We don't care about the practicality of a backseat or how pretty the dash looks -- we just care about beating everyone else around the track. We want to rattle the windows with our obnoxious exhaust notes. We want to be able to break the tires loose in 3rd gear. We want the most bang for our buck and we don't care how pretty we look when we get it..

Just wanted to clear the air there, because a lot of times you guys make comments like "they need to update this.." or "they need to change that.." BUT YOU GUYS are choosing the other car anyway... the car you are complaining about is satisfying a whole different share of the market that you are oblivious too.

BTW -- I know we've been talking about the regular C5, but the high end of the price range for the vette that I quoted, $52,385, buys you a Z06...

A line from the sig of an E46 M3 owner on the bimmer board:

[sARCASM]My favorite line when my wife blows by me in her Z06: "Yeah, well my car has a roundel!"

And when her 4 brake lights look like 2, I think about how crappy her interior is.[/sARCASM]

[skyline_r34v]

They both raced against each other all nite long and the corvette got beat EVERY time.

It jus wasn't ONE time and thats it. U know how drag strips go they race all nite long.

So did the corvy keep tryin to beat the m3 and it never did once that whole nite.

[LateNightCable]

I think that race was more a matter of an unskilled driver. The Corvette's driver I'm sure must not have been that good.

[skyline_r34v]

U can't argue with all nite chances of beatin him. Those drivers can't be perfect shifters everytime.

If not test drive both of them and find out 4 urself. Goto the drag strips with each and see 4 urself.

[thepolarfoxqx]

BMW is conservative in their ratings, and i'm not so sure you are trading performance for interiors gonig from a vette to an M3

[Kevin321]

Yes that was all car. always have to stick up for the Bimmer.

[jterp]

It's rare to see and M3 leave a lot for less than 52k and like i said, 52k buys you a z06.. SO there you have the ultimate question here.... $52k in your bank account, do you buy a z06 or an m3????

In this situation it would certainly be a case of trading performance for practicality and a nicer interior.

And skyline -- I've been drag racing since I was a little kid and every time i've been to the track they've selected competitors AT RANDOM.. what are hte odds that out of 100 or so cars at a drag strip on a given night you end up with the same opponent all night long?/??

[skyline_r34v]

Maybe where u live they start at $52k but around here u'd be thankful that the most expensive u'd leave out with a brand new M3 be $52k.

And i've ALSO drag raced since i was a kid and we have wats called, "happy hours" here.

Usually the last 2-3 hours of closing IF everybody has raced, they can CHOOSE who they race against.

Thats happy hour.

By saying all-nite long i'm not saying they were the only 2 paired the whole nite and with nebody else.

Durin happy hour the corvy challenged the M3 as much as he could and still kept losing.

I dun givva shit bout #s that mags/sites post, i'm gonna believe my eye's be4 ne words on paper.

So the question goes around here.

A decent 2003 Chevy Corvette ($43k) or a decent 2003 BMW M3 ($46k)...which would u pick???

I'll gladly pay $3,000 more to have the M3.

And last i checked cheapest base model ZO6 u could get is $51-$52k here.

The most maximum u can make out a 2003 BMW M3 is $55k.

That's with EVERYTHING under the sun.

[jterp]

My very good friend is a sales manager at a local car dealership (he knows the buisness) He wanted to buy a new M3 for his son -- the best deal he could work on a new M3 in the washington dc area was MSRP. Have you tried to buy one? Those cars are in high demand... they dont go for less than sticker. (I know you said an '03 but the dealers here havent had 03's in 2 months. ) Average sticker price on the m3 is 52k. A new z06 is $52k... same price, which car do you choose?

[thepolarfoxqx]

i will openly admit a ZO6 is faster, but for the same price you get something a little faster, at the cost of safety features, refinement, build quality, practicality, interior quality, shorter warranty. I don't think it's worth it.

And it says something to me that you can get a vette for well under sticker and the best you can get on an M3 is msrp, there must be a reason for that.

And don't say it's cause chevy makes more corvettes, cause they don't.

[LateNightCable]

The only thing that says really is that BMW dealers know they don't have to sell them below MSRP because people will scoop those M3s' up no matter what. M3 is a very worthy steed, Z06 is a very worthy steed, but the M3 no doubt enjoys a higher level of appeal to snobs with money to burn, simply because it's an M BMW. They sell themselves.

Lets' face it, most all of these cars, M3 and ZO6, are sold not for their capabilities, but for their current position as status symbols, a position which is ever changing. There was a time when a Corvette was the thing to have, and I'm sure they sold at no less than MSRP.

[jterp]

will openly admit a ZO6 is faster, but for the same price you get something a little faster, at the cost of safety features, refinement, build quality, practicality, interior quality, shorter warranty. I don't think it's worth it.

And it says something to me that you can get a vette for well under sticker and the best you can get on an M3 is msrp, there must be a reason for that.

And don't say it's cause chevy makes more corvettes, cause they don't.

Thank you, fox, for proving my point. You are willing to trade things like a practical backseat and a nicer dash for a level of performance. YOu openly choose a slower vehicle because it is more "refined" (A word that is thrown around so much on this board that its practically lost all meaning). The corvette is not built for you. The corvette is built for an entirely different type of enthusiast that appreciates it for what it is -- a no hold barred, loud, unpractical speed machine. It is built for an enthusiast who like a loud exhaust note, a big pushrod v8 and a leaf spring suspension.. Making comments like "chevy needs to update this..." or "this is outdated..." are actually not very valid because in doing so they would be gaining your interest and losing the interest that they currently have. You already have the M3, so why try and make the corvette into another M3?

[thepolarfoxqx]

but the car they sell down at your local chevy dealer today is not the car that sold for over MSRP. It is a car not that much in demand, and being sold well under sticker because that is the only way they can sell them. Somehow the m3, in the same market bracket is selling at time OVER MSRP, because there is demand. I have to think there is demand for a reason, and a reason an M3 outsells and holds more prestige than a vette.

i just think it's a better car. It's true, it can't beat a ZO6, but would you really notice that much a performance difference, and frankly, the advantages the M3, atleast to me, and all the other people buying an M3 over a vette, make it worth it.