2004 BMW M3

[diesel2029]

Hi all, I placed an order for this recently. It's almost fully loaded, just doesn't have the 19 inch wheels or lumbar support. I have a question about the optional phone. Is it a dealer installed accessory or does it have to come from the factory ??? Can it be used as part of a voice activated system to operate the phone as well as the audio, like in the Mercedes CLK500 ??? Also, what exactly is the BMW assist ???

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Hallo diesel2029,

 

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[GIR]

You can specify that it's phone prepared out the factory and your dealer can install the hardware later on. I though the Professional system did have voice activation but don't hang me up when it's wrong.

[diesel2029]

The 2004 M3 brochure said that due to low profile tires, parts are more susceptible to damage. Does this mean that the car is lower to the ground than most cars or is it just a flaw of the performance tires ??? Would the 19 inch alloy wheels make a difference ???

[thepolarfoxqx]

it means that the low profile tires don't offer much protection because there isn't much tire between rim and road, if you hit a big pothole, you can hit the rim so hard as to bend suspension arms. The 18" rims are better than the 19s a bit, but it isn't huge, it's the same with all performance cars really.

[djfux69]

arent the 19s wider?

[thepolarfoxqx]

wider, but in terms of aspect ratio, they are lower profile.

[djfux69]

i knew they were a lower profile tire. you need to go lower to maintain the same rotations with a larger wheel, also to clear the wheelwell. you keep the outside of the tire the same size, thin out the inside. what i was saying is that if the 19s are wider wouldnt they be better to have then the 18s for grip reasons?

[thepolarfoxqx]

at the limits on dry pavement, the 19s would be better for sure, as the wider, lower profile tires have a larger area to grip, and are firmer due to low aspect ratio. In bad weather, the 18s would be better, and if you hit a decent sized rock or nasty pothole, let's just hope your insurance has a low deductable. Those 19s are pretty tight on M3, there isn't much room to go bigger.

[LateNightCable]

I would go with 18's every time on an E46 M3. They make the driving experiance a bit more interactive, therefore entertaining. Any slight grip loss from a 19 can easily be regained through a good choice of tires.

Then of course, there are the practical considerations, would you want to risk your wheels on city streets?

[djfux69]

i guess it depends on where you live. the roads here are decent, so i would take the 19s. i love the aggresive stance of the car on 19s. i think it looks so good on that car.

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Hallo diesel2029,

 

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[thepolarfoxqx]

I'm not sure. In general there isn't any really signifigant difference in performance between the 17 and 18, i guess if you really like bright shiney chrome and huge wheels, the 19s are nice. The 18s seem more versatile, and fit the character of the car better (to me atleast)

[LateNightCable]

Unless you're racing perhaps, and just perhaps, anything above 18 is just showing off. Just because a wheel is bigger, or a tire is a lower profile does not mean that it will perform best.

[djfux69]

well obviously bigger doesnt mean better. the only way the 19s are better is that they are wider. but if the weight is substantially increased, then the 18s would suffice. however if the 19s are the same weight, or lighter, the 19s would much better as they would have less rotational mass, and have better grip.

[LateNightCable]

On the street though, wider tires can catch every bump in the road like rolling pins effecting handling, and causing bump steer. Again, grip can be regained with an 18, through tires and suspension setup. Assuming any is lost.

When talking about a car like the M3, where grip and control is already excellent, I think it would be better to stay on 18s' using the stickiest tires you can find, and just lower the car around those. If you want wide though, go with a wide 18, like 18"x10".

[djfux69]

well i dont think you would ever want wide in fron for that reason. my ideal setup would be 19x8 front 19x10 rear, of course this depends on the power of the car , but i would never want to go higher that 9 inches across in the front, i would go up to 14 in the rear if i needed traction badly...... never ever on an m3. 9.5 in the rear would suffice, and 8 in the front would be great.

[thepolarfoxqx]

M3 doesn't drive enought torque to really need 10" in the back. That would just make the already bouncy ride even worse.

[djfux69]

your right, i completely forgot that the torque was much lower than the hp.

[LateNightCable]

Torque has nothing to do with it. Cars everywhere ride around on a lot wider rubber than they need, stock tires too. E30 M3 raced with 9" or 10" wide wheels, and that car was all high rpm horsepower.

And whats' this fixation on 19" rims? The worlds highest performing road cars have run on 18s' just fine for years. Lamborghini Diablo, Murcielago, Ferrari 360, Corvette ZO6 and many, many others. McLaren F1 even. I believe the only real reason 19's are a factory option on the M3 and most any other car, is because they know big rims are popular with flossers, so BMW might as well do it up right and provide 19's themselves.

[djfux69]

right but thats what i said in the first place. the 19s give it a more aggressive stance. also the other point that i said was that a larger rim would have a lower aspect ratio tire, therefore having less sidewall flex, improving cornering. all of this really means nothing unless you are racing, which is why i brought up the stance of the 19s on the m3, i think it looks damn good.

[reggid]

Another advantage of 19" wheels is that you can fit bigger brakes if you find that the standard ones aren't good enough, though i'm sure the m3 doesn't have any problems in this area. Another downside is that if the rims are too big the brakes can begin to look too small. I like the look of a serious looking brake package it is a reasonable guide to the cars performance capability.

[djfux69]

yeah but you can fit most kits up to 14 inch rotors on 18 inch wheels, anything else is way overkill for street use.

[thepolarfoxqx]

M3 brakes are already hurtfully strong. Anyhow, so few of the M3s have the 19s, there aren't any brake kits out too big to fit cars with the 18s.

[reggid]

i guess i should have said more generally that increasing rim size allows bigger brakes, rather than saying this practice is worthwhile on an m3.

The CL65 AMG has 390mm front discs ( biggest i can remember seeing) with its 19" wheels but it has 600kg or so more to lug around and also has bigger averall tyre diameter.

You are right in saying that you could only potentially get any gains if you raced since the braking is limited by traction anyway, so big brakes would tend to only increase mass rather than minimise stopping distances. You'd get less fade and better cooling, though fade is minimal anyway.

[djfux69]

another reason i said anything bigger than 14 ( even though that is huge) is a waste for street is its mass. i could understand putting huge rotors on a race car (ceramic, or composite) because they would be lighter and would put less sprung weight on the car (less rotational mass). i wouldnt see the practicallity in using those brakes for street use due to cost and lifespan. i say, if you want to upgrade brake , do so only if you NEED to. im sure the M3 has good brake and i wouldnt change them unless i raced. the most i would go on a non race car would be better pads maybe bigger brakes if my brakes really sucked and i planned on going fast.

[chele]

well i been think a lot whith this brake stuff. but my anwer for all you is GO TO SHOP A BMW M3 CSL for the rims and brakes are 19¨and have ceramic brakes "whith the exacly side no more bigger ans smaler" and it´s i belive the more beautiful car that bmw offer right now have stilish sport image (more than other bmw ans right now im driving a m3 03´) but when this come out i think it´s more better cuz now i don´t have to change that ugly rims from the standar model and belive it´s a little expensiva buy a new rims i have a ssr gt3 19´ and now im waithing for my chrismas gift see my m3 here www.bmwm3.org it´s a carbon black 8)