The death of Rolls Royce

[LateNightCable]

I for one happen to find the Firebird, particularly in nostril trim, pretty damn hot. This coming from someone with refined asthetic sensibilities.

I recognize and appreciate the Camaro's clean lines, but the Firebird to me possesses' a lot of charisma. The nose shortened, and it became a very voluptuous design. Even the interior was a lot sportier than the Camaro's. The " GTO " by comparison, is clean, but bland as a week old buscuit.

And in terms of the engine, the Firebird V8s' were said to be a little more potent than their Camaro counterparts. Chalk it up to a less restrictive Ram Air unit, whatever. It's funny how the Mustang never caught up until the F-cars were already gone.

If the WS-6 was too gaudy for you, the Firehawk was fairly restrained, and well done I think. And the Camaro had it's fair share of cheap plastic too, come on.

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Hallo P.I.M.P,

 

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[thepolarfoxqx]

I've never seen that. I've always appreciated understated subtlety. It's a large part of why I've always loved BMW. The mobile styling is goofy. The decals are even worse. No one outside of the united states would touch a notril-V8, the only appeal it has is overdone hillbilly redneck appeal, which is tragic, because the camaro had genuinely sleek and attractive line. As for the V8 being better, they were always rated the same, only at close to top speed would any difference be seen. The GTO is easily the best GM car I've seen in a long time and probably the only one I would buy. It's styling is amazingly attractive to me. It's more refined and practical than anything else out there in it's class, it's 90% of a CLK55 for 40% of the price. I just hope they don't make the GTO Judge some hillbilly styled, decal covered nostril-racer.

[LateNightCable]

I've seen a photo of a TransAm with European plates, Autobahn country I believe. It's not like the car is running around with a flaming chicken on it's hood anymore. I know a guy who thinks the Firebird was too subtle. He thinks all body color decals should have been chrome - he also has bad taste in auto accessories from what I can tell.

You could look at the F-Bird and think " redneck hillbilly appeal ", but then anyone with prejudice on their mind could say that about any American V8 car with a perfomance tilt. The car was never supposed to be subtle, or travel under the radar screen, it looks like a car that could snort, and sounded like it too. It's image was kind of hairy chested and macho, and in it's final iteration, appeared, dare I say, almost Italianate in it's swarthy bravado.

Understated certainly has it's place, but then that place doesn't tend to have " Fire " in it's name.

[wEstSide]

Yes, the Camaro is easily one of the more beautiful cars GM has pumped out.

I grew up loving that and the Corvette, until I found out that the Viper can whup its ass... The Camaro SS will become a real classic in the future, if it doesn't become antiquated in a few decades.

[LateNightCable]

In all honesty, the F-body cars ( Camaro / Firebird ) have been antiquated for over 20 years, when comparing them to the high tech stuff from Europe. And seeing as they don't build them anymore, it's at least a collector's item now.

Rough and ready, those are the pony cars for ya. High tech be damned.

[zit]

ive driven a camaro in the uk and it was the worst handling car ever but the looks power and the colossal speed made up for that it is my favorite car that has come out of america a good old sports car formula big engine front engined rear drive and enough power and torque to make the earth moves backwards

[wEstSide]

Its not a sports car, its one of the remnants of the Pony Car Era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car

Know ye sporting car classes well! Sable, a Camaro SS hauriant Argent, Firebird displayed Gules, a Cross fitchy Argent, a Pontiac Argent.

Ph34r t3h 1337 h3r4ldry s|<1||zz

[skyline_r34v]

Ph34r t3h 1337 h3r4ldry s|<1||zz

uh what the hell is all that shit? Some sort of internet lingo or something?

[wEstSide]

That joke, skyline, contained so many subtlties that it would be extremely difficult to explain but I'm going to try anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldry

That explains the heraldry part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

That explains "leet speek."

Now to put them together is the task. In using "leet speek" to describe my "heraldry skillz" I was simply referencing historical parallels. One day "leet speek" will become just as antiquated, dumb, and useless as heraldry. I guess my mistake was assuming everyone had knowledge of both.

[skyline_r34v]

Oh ok.

[Anzeige Amazon]

Hallo P.I.M.P,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Britische Marken (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[LateNightCable]

Anyone wanna hear some " AOL speak "? Here goes -

" So lyk i was walkin dwn tha sydwok wit my bf pete, n i cot him lookin at my frend brenda, n i was lyk, no way, u r not lookin at brenda. n he was lyk naw im jus lookin at her hare boo, its pritty. n i was lyk, dont look at brenda lyk that agen, i haf to kp an i on u. "

This is a dialect of another language commonly known on CarPassion as " Ghettoese ".

Yeah, a Camaro is no sports car, it's a different breed. They started out as small practical coupes, with big power under the hood.

[skyline_r34v]

I use to be mr. Ghettoese

[thepolarfoxqx]

what a title. i'm jealous.

anyhow, a camaro is decent, but in the end, it didn't have what sold cars, which was an attractive interior, good marketing, and for american cars, a fresh exterior appearance. It was outdated, chevy just got tired of investing in camaro. It was a cool car, a throw down bargain next to a vette, but it had it's flaws too. Fun though.

[LateNightCable]

Also, the majority of pony car buyers are not into real performance, but rather practicality with a sporty image, and the Mustang just had more of that. Mustang has always been much more important to Ford than Camaro/Firebird ever was to GM. So Ford was much more savvy about how they packaged and marketed their own car.

But as far as performance, the F-cars still managed to take the Ford to the cleaners most of the time. But since most of the cars sold are just economy minded six-bangers, that's only a partially important selling point.

[thepolarfoxqx]

the ford cars held their own , they were usually a little behind in hard performance, but not too far. In the end, the ford lives on, so it had what i guess the majority of muscle car buyers wanted. The new mustang is as good as the the F-car ever was, and beats out the GTO, which is the conceptual successor to the F car in most ways too.

[zit]

the problem is american muscles are critsized 2 much but i mean comparing them 2 cars like a 911 , 360 is unfair these cars are a unique breed that i firmly believe should be exploited in the uk with chassis and suspension mods muscles and pony cars could be real winners in the uk it just appears that nobody has thought about this yet and GM and american branches of manufacturers with a bit of effort can start a lucrative market in europe

[LateNightCable]

American style cars are kind of a niche in Europe and the UK. You'll find people who are big fans, but the market never seems to be big. Small importers could definitely make some business though. Even Ford who has a large presence overseas doesn't offer the Mustang, but they do offer the GT. Interestingly, they also offer a minivan in the UK called the Galaxy, which is the name of a 60's Ford with a bit of a muscle reputation.

GM still sells the Corvette overseas, especially now with it's new " international " proportions. About the only real pony car left though is the Mustang, I think their could be a good little foreign market for one's like the Cobra and such.

[thepolarfoxqx]

I think if ford sends the mustang to europe (and i think they should), only send the various 8 cylender variants and only with the optional independent rear suspension and they'll have a winner.

[LateNightCable]

That would be the Cobra, and any variation of it. Sending a live-axle V6 Mustang overseas would be like selling the BMW 730d in the U.S. - Who would buy it?

[thepolarfoxqx]

Who would buy a 730d here? The person who wants an E320CDI, but finds it too small.

The '05 GT offers the independent rear suspension as an option. Europeans are more aware of fuel economy and generally are used to less powerful cars in general. The average european car is a compact 4 cylender car with not too much over 100hp. The average american car has a V6 averaging over 3.5l and 200hp. The GT would have a place in europe with the IRS. The V6 shouldn't go over cause it sucks.

[LateNightCable]

Anyone with a hankering for an E320CDI, only bigger would probably just settle for an S430. Seriously, you know how the U.S. market works, image and power numbers are very important ( Which is why most Americans aren't riding around in 100hp. lorries if they can help it ).

As for a 3.0 liter Diesel, American 7-Series buyers just aren't into that. Even Mercedes doesn't offer a CDI S-Class here anymore. Strange too, considering that Diesels have come a long way towards being sportier.

About the Mustang, I see it as more of a niche vehicle overseas. There are much better options if one is looking for an economy minded sporty coupe, the average bloke might get a Focus or Ka for this. In base form, the Mustang itself is pretty average, or below it . So the only way to sell it overseas is all out - IRS with a V8. A semi exotic toy.

[thepolarfoxqx]

which is what I said, i just think that a GT would still sell there, you should send cobra too, but i see a demand for the mustang GT on top. Keep in mind a mustang is a much larger car than a ka

[LateNightCable]

I originally suggested the Cobra in one of my earlier posts, because foreign buyers of Mustang would be attracted to what it stands for - big engine, tough sound effects, a certain braggadocio. Though the GT is still V8, so this naturally would be a good idea to offer.

The Ka is just a normal sized compact car by European standards.