Will they?

[kleinefisch]

So then why give away their own engine?

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Hallo Kevin321,

 

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[Kevin321]

The engine in the Mclaren f1 LM puts out 668hp

name one engine in a production car that is

naturally aspirated that dose the same or

more. and as to porsche making better engines

than BMW all I have to say is B.S.

[GIR]

So then why give away their own engine?

1. Money talks

2. BMW wasn't doing with the engine anywayz. The M8 project was scrapped. It would've been a shame if a engine like the S70/2 would never see the daylight.

[LateNightCable]

If anybody builds better engines than BMW, it's Porsche. And a little note, BMW's name is on the engine. It says BMW MPower, and it says Mclaren.

Never said it didn't say BMW M Power, but McLaren never had anything to do with the engine mechanically. Gordon Murray wanted the best, and the best happened to be a BMW V12, and not a Porsche engine. And as stated before, BMW had no plans for the S70/2 themselves, it was collecting dust. So when an opportunity came along to make some money, and enhance their own name is racing, striking a little deal with McLaren, everybody came out ahead. But I doubt McLaren has the tooling to produce the S70/2 themselves, even if they wanted to.

[kleinefisch]

Okay, you guys are twisting this way out of proportion. I only started disagreeing when LateNight said

Whether or not BMW ever used the S70/2 again, the principle is that it's BMW's engine, they should retain full rights to it. The only reason anyone thinks about McLaren on a wide scale is because of what BMW did for them, that engine was the crucial ingredient. And when it comes to legalities, I don't think a bunch of self important small timers like McLaren would want to mess with BMW AG. In the words of a 14 year old mall rat, " They don't want to go there. "

I agree that without the BMW engine, the so called "crucial ingredient", the Mclaren may not have been what it is, but on the other hand, if it were not for Mclaren, BMW would still have that engine collecting dust on a shelf. Mclaren is not composed of "small timers" because Mclaren has one of the most prestigous racing teams on the planet.

And Porsche is famous for making the most performance out of the least horsepower, thus more reliability. There is no telling what would have happened if Mclaren had ever gone to Porsche for an engine, but based on their history and experience, I'd say we would still have had a fabulous car.

[LateNightCable]

The F1 may have been a good car with another engine, but never the superstar that it became. At that point in time, I don't think Porsche would have had a suitable engine anyway. I doubt a V8 or a turbo flat-six would have cut it. Porsche did have a Formula 1 V12 engine in the early nineties, available for anyone to use - but that program bombed. Those Porsche V12s' turned out to be not so good.

[GIR]

Actually, Porsche is all about making light and greatly engineerd stuff. Although their engines perform well in their own cars, because the cars are designed as an intregale whole, they don't have the tendency to perform well in other cars.

For instance, not many people know this, but Porsche once designed a flat 12 for Arrows Footwork in 1991. While the others used a 80 or 90 degree designed this engine was 120 degrees. The engine lasted only half a season F1 because the engine was too heavy and too big, as characteristic with Porsche engines it had a very low center of gravity though. Since then they never attempted to build big engines like that anymore and they also never attempted to build engines for outside companies.

Porsche's philosophy does not fit in well with other car producers, that is that the car is to be designed as a whole, has too be light and the engine has to be in the rear. Those combined with small, light and powerfull engines make their cars as a whole great, but as seperate parts they're not so useable.

[LateNightCable]

Thats' the engine I was talking about. A 120 degree angle I think would still qualify as a " V ". Truely flat would be 180 degrees. And I don't think it was exclusively for Arrows Footwork. Either way, it didn't do well, so Porsche makes really good engines, but are effective mostly in their own cars.

[GIR]

I think 180 degrees qualifies it as a boxer engine.

But yes the engine was a V and the engine wasn't exclusive for Arrows Footwork but they were the only one using it. But after (I think) 5 races (until the GP of Canada) they dumped the engine. At the GP of Canada 1991 they switched back to the Ford Cosworth V8.

Anywayz kleinfisch: Think about this. Do you know anybody else in the world who designs a car like Posche does? Do you know anybody who implements the same engineering or the same philiosophy? Porsche has their own formula and it works well for their own designs. But not for others. I do not think a Porsche engine could've done the same as the S70/2 does for the F1.

Heck I think Porsche is the only manufacturer who's engine sits behind the rearwheels. All cars I know of the engine sits either infront or ontop of the rearwheels.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Testimate to how great the S70/2 was, no car with anyone elses engine has topped it yet.

12 years almost, if porsche, mercedes, ferrari, whoever could have easily made engine like that, and a car like F1, they would have.

Sad to say, the koeningsegg CCV8S, which looks to be the car that will knock off mclaren, is powered by Ford.

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Hallo Kevin321,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema BMW (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[GIR]

Testimate to how great the S70/2 was, no car with anyone elses engine has topped it yet.

12 years almost, if porsche, mercedes, ferrari, whoever could have easily made engine like that, and a car like F1, they would have.

Sad to say, the koeningsegg CCV8S, which looks to be the car that will knock off mclaren, is powered by Ford.

To go even further, no naturaly inspired production engine has even matched the performance of the S70/2.

[LateNightCable]

Did somebody say Koenigsegg? Who is that? I think their 15 minutes of fame ended before it ever began. They waited too long.

[thepolarfoxqx]

no, you are right, it stands as the pinnacle of naturally aspirated performance.

and their fame is over? kinda harsh don't you think?

it isn't exactly easy making the world's fastest car on limited resources.

[LateNightCable]

I would say that Koenigsegg has more resources to draw upon than anyone ever had. His whole country is in on this deal. They might as well quit stalling and face the music.

[thepolarfoxqx]

they've had some slight set-backs, nothing too horrible.

they'll get there. look at how well it did with jeremy.

i agree they should be moving faster along.

but remember, their factory burned down last year, they've been getting back on track since that.

[LateNightCable]

Their factory burned down? Huh, didn't know that, yeah that would be a setback wouldn't it?

[thepolarfoxqx]

yeah, most of the time.

[850 Ci]

was the mclaren F1 turbocharged? if not thats amazing, if so, nah well its still a fkin sweet motor.

[thepolarfoxqx]

nope, naturally aspirated. It's impressive isn't it? It was state of the art in the early nineties, and still is.

[850 Ci]

ae u serious! holy man i am crappin my pants, thats amazing. not even mercedes can make those numbers with thier v12 and turbocharged without the engine blowing up and sednign teh car flying liek the was it the CLR? did.

[LateNightCable]

Using their brains to get big power instead of more displacement, and forced induction. Thats' a BMW specialty.

[Kevin321]

Using their brains to get big power instead of more displacement, and forced induction. Thats' a BMW specialty.

The truth is so good

[Arty25]

yo dude you spelled beat wrong (bet)

[Kevin321]

yo I dont give a shit

[thepolarfoxqx]

calm yourselves children.