Infiniti vs. BMW

[diesel2029]

Hi all, which brand would you choose and why ??? More specifically if it was between the Infiniti M45 or Q45 and the BMW 5 series.

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Hallo diesel2029,

 

kennst du schon Infiniti vs. BMW (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

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[bleh]

i know im geing very vague when i say bmw, but this really depends on which of the 5 series. i would only take the infiniti over the bmw if the bmw was underpowered(525 or 530). comparing japanese and german cars is quite a conversation starter around here:)

[LateNightCable]

BMW all the way, because those cars have years upon years of highly focused development built into them. Infiniti has finally found a voice for itself in recent years. Now, they just need to hone it. On average, I like the " tight ", the less isolated feel of the German cars.

[PorschePlayboy928]

BMW. My family has had German cars for a very long time now and nothing comes close to the quality. The Mercedes for example has grease fittings on the door hinges! Plus when you shut the door its like you are being locked in a bank vault. Last, you will have a much higher resale value with the BMW.

[kleinefisch]

I don't know. BMW, Mercedes and Audi have all been subject to some pretty negative reliability ratings recently, especially in the short term. Japanese car makers tend to make far more reliable cars. However, they don't have the same style or power and performance as the German cars. It depends on what you're looking for.

[PorschePlayboy928]

Add to that it seems like all of the "japanese" cars copy the style of the Germans. It sickens me to see these cars! Example, the Toyota Camry looks just like an older S class with the chrome trunk trim and the tail lights. Can't they come up with their own design?

[izzyloveslizzy]

Well, I don't think Eastern asian car manufactureres like designing their own cars. And as long as they can legally get away with it, they're going to keep on doing it. And it's at least not all bad. Think about it, if Korean and Japanese brands designed their own cars, we'd all be seeing cars on the street that looked like they came out of a Japanese anime. Excessively swollen/tall/narrow looking, and 12" wheels and even smaller wheel-wells! At least this way their cars look more normal.

I psted a whole huge friggin' head-tohead compare/contrast review of the Infiniti Q45/M45 versus the BMW M5 (E39), but apparently it took too long to type, and by the time I posted it it wanted me to log-in again, and when I did, my post was gone. What a blast that was. :roll:

In one sentence: Infiniti is a great ad innovative brand, but they don't stand a chance aganist the best damn car manufacturer out there. BMW isn't "BMW" for no reason. Infiniti has a LOT OF WORK to do if it wants to even catch up to BMW.

[LateNightCable]

Actually, I have found many Asian cars actually look Asian, or seem anime inspired. Look at the front of an old Lexus ES300, the headlights have that Oriental eye look, Camrys', Celicas'. The Mitsubishi Montero looks like a freakin' Samurai, I don't mean Suzuki either.

The old Lexus GS300 was Italian designed, and then tweaked by Lex. So really, many Asian cars do have their own look.

Infiniti has a great deal of work to do in terms of refining their goals. One quality all the greatest car makers have in common is, they all have their own very firm philosophy on what they want their cars to be.

[thepolarfoxqx]

infiniti has a few large problems compared to BMW.

for one, they are all Nissan Parts spruced up, any feeling of exclusivity is gone.

they have QC issues, like leather stitching going bad, plastics wearing out, switchgear failing.

Also, and this is sad, with 290hp, a heavier 540i is faster than a 340hp M45, go figure that one out, it boggles me.

Also, BMW has had a clear image, Infiniti has had a dozen in as many years.

not exactly condusive to good resale.

[kleinefisch]

As of yet, Infinit and most other Japanese auto-makers have the Germans beat in terms of long and short term reliability and fuel efficiency, so if thats what you are looking for, go with them. They have a lot of catching up to do in order to make a true name for themselves as desireable cars, but it is entirely possible in the future.

[Anzeige Amazon]

Hallo diesel2029,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Sportwagen Kaufberatung (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[izzyloveslizzy]

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!! What are you talking about?

In terms of short-term reliability and long term reliability, the Japanese are pretty much equal to the average German auto manufacturer.

But for fuel economy, Germany is killing Japan. The 540i is heavier (of course less powerful), and it's engine is a naturally aspirated 4 litre producing 286HP and 321lb.ft. of Torque and gets about. Infiniti's M45 and Q45 are lighter and more powerful and still slower, and they have 4.5 litre engines that produce only 340HP and 333lb.ft. Torque and get about , and their fuel economy is on a par with the 540i. To put it in perspective, a modified 344HP 540i gets relatively better mileage (22MPG combined) than an Infiniti Q45/M45 (23/22MPG combined), eventhough the BMW is heavier and should technically use more fuel (if it is to get slightly more power than the Infinitis). The average BMW engine gets 77HP and 80 pound-feet of Torque per liter, while the average Infiniti engine gets 75HP and 74 pund-feet of Torque per liter. BMW makes the most efficient engines in the world, and if you ever tell anyone from Munich with a slight bit of interest in cars that a "Nissan" is more efficient than BMW, they'll stab you. Whatever made you say Infinitis get better mileage that BMWs?

[kleinefisch]

OK, well this is a comparison of two countries in general, so pardon me getting a little off topic. According to JD Power

2003 E-class: mechanical quality - 2/5

feature & accessory qual. - 2/5

body & interior qual. - 3/5

overall quality - 3/5

2003 5 Series: Mechanical qual. - 4/5

feature & acc. - 3/5

body & int. - 5/5

overall - 3/5

2003 A6: mech. - 3/5

feat. & acc. - 2/5

body & int. - 3/5

overall - 2/5

2003 Acura TL: mech. - 5/5

feat. & acc. - 4/5

body & int. - 3/5

overall - 4/5

2003 G35: mech. - 4/5

feat. & acc. - 3/5

body & int. - 3/5

overall - 3/5

Now, these are only short term ratings, obviously, we will have to wait in order to get the full story. However, German cars have been on the decline in these ares for some time now, and the Japanese seem to be improving. As fo the gas mileage, from what I saw, BMW seemed to be the only one keeping up with the Japanese cars, and it is too much of a pain to search through countless websites to find the MPG estimates on a bunch of cars. So, after all this, I would go with the Acura, even if it wasn't a consideration, the look fabulous, get great ratings, gas mileage, etc. and are much cheaper than any German equivalent.

[thepolarfoxqx]

that is only one source. JD power is not the hear all end all. Your perfect acura TL has a well aired problem with it's sunroof leaking. Here hows this.

Look a 1991 BMW 5 series, then at a 1991 Q45, tell me which looks more dated, furthermore, find me a Q45 in solid shape without wear everywhere.

JD Power gives best buys to cars like Camry. Camry is beat in ALL areas by one of it's competitors, it's not even 2nd place most categories.

but the best thing I can say is drive them.

Go drive a TL and then an A6 or 5 Series.

[kleinefisch]

I was just using JD Power because they are an unbiased group who compile their data customers. I agree, drive them, whichever you like best, buy.

[LateNightCable]

Drive them, which ever one you like best, buy it. Makes sense to me.

That about wraps that up.

[bleh]

BMW makes the most efficient engines in the world

honda?

about hondas: a tl is more comfortable than your average car, but if you want luxury theres not really that much to shoot for. it will not compare to german styling or comfort. hondas aim is practicality(with exception to the s2000 and nsx) and reliability.

[thepolarfoxqx]

an Acura TL with a 3.2L 24V V6 SOHC makes 225, has a 5spd auto, and weighs in at about 3,400lbs. It zero to sixties around around 7.4 secconds. A BMW 330i, at around 3,350lbs with a 225hp 3.0L I6 24V DOHC does the 0-60 with a 5 speed auto in about 6.8. Same weight, same number of gears, same horsepower, the BMW was faster.

Do you really want me to put an M3 or M5 up against NSX, better yet, Z4 up on S2000 (S2000 is 1.2 secconds slower on the 5-60 than it was in the 0-60, if that says anything about flexibility of its power).

Honda makes some good engines, i hardly think they are "better" than BMW's powerplants.

[bleh]

an Acura TL with a 3.2L 24V V6 SOHC makes 225, has a 5spd auto, and weighs in at about 3,400lbs. It zero to sixties around around 7.4 secconds. A BMW 330i, at around 3,350lbs with a 225hp 3.0L I6 24V DOHC does the 0-60 with a 5 speed auto in about 6.8. Same weight, same number of gears, same horsepower, the BMW was faster.

i never said the tl was that great of a car. it only comes in automatic, i would never consider owning one ever.

Do you really want me to put an M3 or M5 up against NSX, better yet, Z4 up on S2000

no i was thinking something along the lines of a 318 and a civic

Honda makes some good engines, i hardly think they are "better" than BMW's powerplants.

i was pushing twards the idea that honda makes more efficient engines:

honda?

each manufacturer has their own forte. honda's is the 4banger. bmw's is i6 and v8.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Bleh, I beg to differ. Everyone "SAYS" that Honda makes the best four-bangers in the world, but I don't think it's fair to judge it that way when they crapify an engine by sacrificing Torque for raw horsepower and calling it "fun to rev.". It's idiotic that people "LIKE" high-revving engines and thus disregard the lack of Torque. I'd like to see if Honda can make that 240HP S2000 engine and make it produce 240lb.ft. of torque alongside the horsepower. They could probably do it, but not withour sacrificing mileage. And they'd probably have to make the engine bigger as well. Honda does NOT make more efficient engines than BMW. You could only say that if by "more efficient engines" you meant "a larger number of efficient engines". I only praise Honda for their abilitty to be the largest engine producer in the world (they mass-produec reliable engines, and that's excellent in it's own); but that's nothing that could ever put Honda or it's baby brother Acura in a head-to-head with BMW. The mere thought of it would result in sheer hillarty for the masses.

And what's with you wanting to compare a 318 and a Civic? Are you serious, or is that a subtle joke that I didn't get?

Also, I don't think the new TL is only Automatic (although if it is, then that sucks, because it looks nice, and it would be pretty OK to own.

[thepolarfoxqx]

my 318i stacks up pretty favorably to a civic. I've only ever lost to one. He had NOS, he also detaonated his engine soon after. My 4 banger has things on it from '91 hondas don't still today. BMW's I4s are every bit as good as the rest of their line. Thier I6s and V8s are almost untouhcable.

[izzyloveslizzy]

There you have it. Thank you. Couldn't say it better meself.

Any stock 318 i would "stack up" to the best stock Civic. If 3-series Beemers had as many aftermarket options as Civics do, you'd be seeing seom pretty amazing NOS-assisted 3 series Beemers that probably wouldn't "detonate", and they'd beat the life out of the best of the modified versions of Honda's cheap compact. Oh, and here's another reason why Honda doesn't hold a candle to the Europeans: if you Nitro a Beemer or Benz or anything else (even the lowest-tuned stock German engine), you'd get a healthier run than on any civic. Fox's example isn't the first time I've heard of a Honda engine falling into Shadow as a casualty of "over-tuning". That in itself speaks volumes, and overrides your the "reiability and value" factor that keeps Honda's vital signs beeping in this comparison.

[LateNightCable]

Hmmm, interesting. What snappy dialogue .

[izzyloveslizzy]

Thanks. But do you agree with what I'm saying?

[LateNightCable]

Most definitely.

I don't have too much experiance with Honda engines, but I know they are very reliable in stock form. When you tune them is when that flies out the window. I don't think Honda engines have a high tolerance for aftermarket tuning, run them too high and they'll blow something, so I've heard. If I tuned a motor, I mean really tuned a motor, I would want it to have some reserves.

[izzyloveslizzy]

When you tune them is when their reliability flies out the window. I don't think Honda engines have a high tolerance for aftermarket tuning, run them too high and they'll blow something, so I've heard.

You're dead on. It's Ironic that people use both the reliability AND the tuning options as plus points for Hondas, because you usually can't have both. The Civic, for example, obviously isn't a great tuner (especially when it comes to REAL tuning), but Honda uses their marketting and partnership muscles to get more and more companies to make aftermarket parts for Hondas, while concealing the fact that most of their models (especially their flagships) don't even tolerate engine tuning. Well, at least Honda have a lot of Marketting power and advertising money, and they're as aggressive as toyota in promoting their s***. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it works well for Honda. The Civic is the number 1 selling car in Canada, I believe 3 years running. The Civic is Canada's F150. I think Honda's still doing something right. Whether they're honest or not.