japan vs. europe ( skyline r34 - m3)

[LateNightCable]

Bleh, wasn't it you who was defending a souped up Eclipse in another topic? I would not trust that Mitsu for long term durability. It's okay for a cheap blast, but cars like that are use and throw away.

A European machine is something you can invest in long term, and build a history with. It won't degrade into a creaky bucket of high performance parts with no ride quality.

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Hallo SPD_JNKY,

 

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[thepolarfoxqx]

if you're into violent tuning, a mitusbishi is a great car to do it on. With a beefed up bottom end, mitsus are pretty cheap, put out and down the power pretty well. Furthermore, mitsu engines are amongst the toughest japense ones around. Just the same, any car with violent tuning won't have any sort of durability.

european cars usually don't require violent tuning to bring the power, and if you do violent tune them, they are built more solidly. That is why they're more expensive, but it's worth it. Thicker, higher quality cylender liners, better pistons and and bottom end componenets. They're just better motors. I think the cost is well justified, but lots of rice disagree with me, i've been told lots of times "yo homes, you just strap the NOS and go, dip on yo shit every time, who cares about durability. shit works. it breaks, i'll buy a new one"

I wish i could be as rich as 22 year old civic driving punks, cause i can't afford a new car every other month.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Hmm. I'd rather drive a super-tuned Mitsubishi eclipse than a violently tuned Civic. For long-term reliability, neither is going to perform well, but the Mitsu would get the better end of that. And it would look better too. Although, I don't know about the whole idea of a big NOS system beside you in a Civic or Eclipse or any other car of that level. That just doesn't lok right. It's almost like polishing a turd (especially in the case of cheaper Japanese cars). I should note, though, that Mitsu still makes a kickass car, and probably the best (or one of the best) to come out of Japan.

[bleh]

Bleh, wasn't it you who was defending a souped up Eclipse in another topic?

yes, whats your point? you can make them fast and it can be reliable if you take the extra precautions. as far as this thread goes, yes european tuning is better than japanese and in the case of the m3 vs the skyline: as stated before the skyline only wins straight line. i dont understand your mentioning me.

as far as mitsubishi's reliability: i never trusted dsm's and i never will. i know for a fact that obviously nissans(the skyline takes a lot of heat), and toyotas supra engines are built more solidly than mitsus engines. sorry that point was off topic.

what is this talk of violent tuning? if its tuned correctly then it will last longer, if its not then it wont. you you were to put a 125shot of dry nitrous in a civic engine, then you screwed up and you just destroyed your car due to bad tuning. but if you were to reinforce( or replace) the engine internals (which is very cost effective in a civic) you can very easily run a 125shot wet nitrous system. now are both violently tuned? but will yeild the same results, but one will most definitely out last the other. dont think im trying to bash your vocabulary, im just trying clarify. european engines just come with a finer tune to begin with.

izzy: a super tuned mitsubishi vs a violently tuned civic....hmm, long term reliability, neither perform well? i dont want to get repetitive. honda vs mitsu? and you chose mitsu? they made the 3000gt, not one of the best. their cars do look nicer, ill give you that, but if they are all turds who cares anyway? i cant agree with you about the rest. i really cant see mitsubishi being better than nisan or honda.

[thepolarfoxqx]

the thing is, the average rice cruising about isn't fine tuned well.

[GIR]

I stand behing Fox. You could make a Japanse car look nice and you could make it go faster but usualy, I'd say about 80% of the time, these kids just slap on fake stuff and act all tuff.

Fake exhaust tips for added loudness, very annoying.

Fake Airintakes, which are screwed on top or badly installed.

The pinnacle, magic marker and ducttape. C'mon!

And what bugs me the most is that these kids don't know the 1st thing about engineering and still think they somehow know.

Funniest thing I ever heard from a 1994 Civic coupe driver was when he lost from a 320. He was talking smack about how had this and had that, the 320 was stock. After he lost his only comment was and I quote: "Yeah but he has a V6, for a 4 cylinder I did okay". V6?!

[thepolarfoxqx]

i've seen fast asian cars, very fast ones, most of them though have a bad tendancy to need to be overhauled every 15000 miles, i've seen other fast asian cars that are actually stable under tons of power, but they're damn expensive, and then the other 95%, posuers with a fart-pipe muffler, rims, and the biggest performance mod of all, stickers, claiming they'll take down anything.

[LateNightCable]

Bleh, I just got the impression you had a big thing for Japanese cars, then you said Japanese engineering did not compare to European, I just wondered what your basis was on favoring an Eclipse at one point.

[thepolarfoxqx]

it's possible to have a fast eclipse, very possible, it's just most people who "tune" one just rice it, they don't do intelligent tuning.

[bleh]

latenight: with given finacial situations and with the correct knowledge i would favor the eclipse. but if money was left out of the situation, obviously the eclipse is not the best choice. i did speak favorably of the eclipse because for less than 20g(buy it used), if you dont mind ripping apart your car you can have an 11s eclipse that doesnt just perform in a straight line. but if you are willing to spend the money then by all means have fun with something more prestigious and comfortable that will perform the same.

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[LateNightCable]

If I were driving cross country, which I enjoy doing fairly frequently, I would not hesitate to take a good well tuned European machine, or an nice American cruiser, over a well tuned Japanese car. The difference in quality would be apparent, and I would think the fart pipe and stiff ride would get to you after about 20 continuous miles on the highway. I just believe that the Europeans integrate ultra high performance with solid construction, diversity of ability ( flexibility in essence ), and liveable luxury much better. Unless you want to get all " supersport " on a Lexus - I haven't seen that much.

[thepolarfoxqx]

you can rice a lexus IS300, hell, it comes with altezzas stock. Rice out an LS430 and you just look like a fool though.

the great euro sedans are jacks of all trades, fast, smooth, luxurious, well engineered. Lots of cars can compare to them in any given category, just not all of them.

[skyline_r34v]

Well for all those who say eclipse's r nice i appreciate it. And Mitsu does make the finest in jap engines and especially in tranny's. But for the retard that say's the M3 issa pos proves ur dumb and biased. I jus think ur in here 2 cause shit and thats it. Look man i gotta nissan skyline gt-r r34 v-spec and i love it to death and they r extremely gr8 cars. But don't rag out a M3 they're very nice as well and sounds pretty damn good 2 me. I know a guy, nadda friend but i know him, that has an M3 and we'll play around a bit in town and he has quick take off even though i roast him everytime but still the point is the M3 issa gr8 quality car. I'm not gonna knock an M3 jus cuz it beats my supercharged eclipse cuz that'd be jus stupid. So far i've been very impressed with them. I mean i have my eclipse supercharged at 287 and he still beats me even though its only sumtimes 1/10 of a second or a lil more. They weigh 400lbs more than me and have 46hp more i'd say thats an even stand off.

p.s. jus 2 state a lil suffin here i've driven to va in my eclipse all the way there and was totally comfortable. No aftermarket seats jus factory and i was still very comfortable.

[thepolarfoxqx]

stock is skyline R34 is slower than the E46 M3, that said, tuning a skyline is an easier task (let's face it, getting serious power out of an M car beyond the factory requires a special favor from god and some first rate engineering, only the likes of Dinan and occasionally Hamann pull of great power gains (hartge plays around a bit, but they don't have enough presence right now to be a serious bimmer tuner contender).

[Kevin321]

Thats true, if you want to hook up your

honda there are tons of tuners, but if

you you want to hook up your BMW you

only have the guys at dinan.

[GIR]

Uuum just dinan? What about Hamman, Beast Power, Hartge, DTM Power, BMW Tuning, AC Schnitzer, Breyton, FMW, Koenig specials, Active autowerke and the tons of other BMW tuners out there. Dinan might be the most famous but they sure as hell are not the only one.

The M cars are tuned to the max but when it comes to the other BMW cars there is enough room left for some do it yourself tinkering.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Bleh, you can't be seriously saying Honda is better than Mitsu. Honda, in my opinion, doesn't belong in the same line-up as Mitsu, eventhough both brands are considered as cheap rice-rocket builders. Mitsubishi is twice as good as Honda even wants to be. And the looks are definitely better, as you yourself agreed. The 3000GT was better than anything Honda ever did for the money. In my opinion, at least. ut since I don't care much about the average soul-less Japanese car, I'll just stay out of this argument.

[thepolarfoxqx]

honda has more for tech and innovation, mitsu just builds a better car, especially for performance.

as far as all of the tuners you mentioned, there are a number of bimmer tuners in europe. In north america, we have more or less Dinan as the frontrunner, and that's about it. they are just dominent over here.

[LateNightCable]

If I wanted to soup a Bimmer, I would not go to Dinan no matter how good. There is just something weird to me about taking a German car to an American tuner. Just like if I wanted to soup a Chevy, I would go to Lingenfelter down in Decatur for the job. Boy would I.

Don't forget Racing Dynamics for BMW tuning, they're Italian, but still European.

[thepolarfoxqx]

there are some americans who've done great things with BMWs. Steve Dinan is recognized as amongst, if not the greatest current BMW tuner. he doesn't have the super-extravegant toys made by hamann, schnitzer, or hartge, but so far as I've seen, no one's taken the M-Power 4.9L V8 further than he has naturally aspirated. He has a S2-M5 Kit that gets the M5 running the 0-60 in 4.1. How could you argue with that?

Lingenfelter does incredible stuff. My uncle had a turbocharged vette tuned by him. The thing was a turboed LS1 (too bad it wasn't the new 650 TT LS6), good for a little over 500 if i remember right. It was a quick machine. He traded it for an E55 last month. He swears E55 is faster, but i think that might just be his imagination.

I'd love it if Dinan tuned my car. Do you know much about him, the man reads shakespearean literature for pleasure, he's clearly every bit the sophisticated individual of any european tuner, and it shows in his work.

[LateNightCable]

I know that he is not the type who would care about your old 318. He likes newest stuff, and doesn't share the opinion of cherishing old models.

[thepolarfoxqx]

actually, dinan prides himself as one of the few tuners still active on the E30, calling it a classic and a great car. They were the last of the old BMWs, small, light, compact, essentials only drivers cars. They still are drivers cars, but they've gotten bigger, heavier, less like original flingable feel brought here by 2002 that got america hooked.

He makes a full Dinan Kit for my car, including exhaust, up to 5 stages of suspension tuning, a chip, and an intake. Oh, and don't forget his signature floormats.

If i dinan tuned a car, it wouldn't be my E30 lol.

[izzyloveslizzy]

How would you know? You're both talkin' about the guy as if you know him personally. According to most people who've actually met the guy, he's really nice and you can have a normal conversation *with* him and he won't ignore the average dude because "he has better things to do than talk to 'lesser people.'" He's also somewhat of a Shakespeare fan as fox mentioned, and he's also a poet, apparently. But let's not forget he kicks major ass when it comes to performance-tuning. I don't see any opint in dissing the man just 'cuz he's not German and he tunes the cars of a German brand. Stola modifies the hell out of the Porsche Boxster to make the GTS, but he's not German, and that doesn't matter much. If I had the money, one of the first cars on my must-buy list would be a GTS, and I wouldn't care if "Mr. Stola" was Italian.

[LateNightCable]

I'm not talking down to the man at all, not even in terms of his work, and yes, he happens to be a personal friend of mine - syke .

I did read a quote from him somewhere though, something to the effect of not being big on old models when new ones come out. He caters to the E30 because it still pays to, even more so if he's the only one doing it.

There is nothing wrong at all with the work he does on the cars, that I can see. But I would personally want to keep it all German.

Izzy, You said " you can have a normal conversation about him. "

You meant " with " him right? No body likes people talking about them if you know what I mean.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Hehe! OK wiseguy. I fixed that. I meant "with", not "about"; it was just an error (which is actually rare in my posts compared to other people's posts). I'm one of the only people here who cares enough to capitalize and punctuate and what-not. But if it bothers you that much , then read it again. I fixed it. :roll: