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Rolls-Royce Phantom - British, or German?


imported_Aston Martin

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Mine having reliability issues I attribute to mine being only the 2nd PhilPenn Jaguar had sold, i got it early.

This is why I question the wisdom of buying a car right when it hits the streets, instead of a couple years down the road when they have made improvements. Buying early, you get the newest thing, but you also get early production drawbacks.

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Rolls Royce Phantom is a really beautiful car. I've seen it in real life. And the dash do not look like a 7-series dash just with a lot of wood. The car is made by some of BMW's finest designers, not everyone of them but some. As they said in top gear; "Why couldn't Rolls Royce Phantom be built and produced by english designers. It is a car that English engineers could be proud of, just like the bridge to Northern Ireland."

I like the car. It doesn't look like a Bentley. The 99 Rolls did.

If it looked like a Bentley, it'd be an improvement - but a Bentley, not the VW with the Bentley badges on.

On Top Gear, Clarkson said he wished it could be designed and built by British engineers, just as the Humber Bridge was, err, over the Humber. Where did the Northern Ireland bit come from? I don't remember that!?! :-?

He has a point, though. I really do wish that British cars were built by British engineers, and designed by Brits, but sadly this is rare these days. :( Thank god for TVR, that's all I'll say.

well, british people would feel that way.

I think since they don't have a decent engine in house to speak of, there is nothing wrong with using BMW's engine, it is after all amongst the best engines there are. I think it should be a car built by british engineers, but drawing on BMW's techincal resources.

If T.V.R. can develop an engine all on its own, then B.M.W. with all their riches could have invested in a new Rolls-Royce engine (likewise with V.W.). They spent all that money on the new plant, and then went and made the new 'Rolls' a spiffed-up version of a 7-series. I have to say congratulations to the Germans for once again ruining British companies. V.W. did Mercedes' job for them - they spent all those years trying to keep up with Bentley, gave up mid-way, and now even Mercs are better than a Bentley. That's not to say Mercs are crap, but just to show how much Bentley has fallen. :roll:

If T.V.R. can develop an engine all on its own, then B.M.W. with all their riches could have invested in a new Rolls-Royce engine (likewise with V.W.).

TVR developped an engine for their top of the range car as they needed one; they needed one that suited the sized of the Speed12, as the previous I6s and V8s were obsolete for a car like Speed12 intends to be.

BMW is from Germany; germans are calculated people: why build something from scrap when they could have upgraded one from the house. It's actually a good one: 75% of the 720Nm of torque from 1000rpm(idle speed) and limited top speed of 240kmh. No wonder it goes 0-62mph in 5,7 and it has more than 2,5 tons.

V.W. did Mercedes' job for them - they spent all those years trying to keep up with Bentley, gave up mid-way, and now even Mercs are better than a Bentley.

Explain, please.

I don't agree at all with u. Merceds plays in another league than Bentley.

The Continental GT will be among the best GTs and the rest of the fleet hasn't fallen either: Arnage, Continental, Azure.

When Merc and Bentley were 'young', they used to compete for prestige at Le Mans - they moved worlds apart a long time ago.

The Conti G.T. is bad - it's just a warmed-up V.W. with Bentley badges - it's a shameful car. The same goes for Rolls-Royce. My point about T.V.R. is that they can make an engine, and they have a much smaller budget than B.M.W. and V.W. have available to them. If they can, B.M.W. and V.W. can specifically for R-R and Bentley.

As for B.M.W. and V.W., and German manufacturers in general; they are very good at making good cars, but when it comes to running British/Italian marques, they haven't got a clue! R-R and Bentley will be ruined for good (or at least a long time), and if people such as yourself go and buy one, what reason have V.W. and B.M.W. got to change things? They can flog their own cars in new clothing for a huge premium in full knowledge that they will be bought! :roll:

It's the same with Lamborghini and what Audi have done to them. Think about it:

Rolls-Royce - British opulence, class and engineering - now German parts, German heart, and I don't care if it comes with umbrellas in the doors... that isn't class!

Bentley - speed, class, the same British opulence and engineering - now also German parts, German heart, and it may be fast but so is a space rocket - and where is the class in one of those?!

Lamborghini - full-on Italian passion, in keeping with the badge they should be a bull to drive, have an insane Italian engine in a stunning supercar package - now they are for soft people, who want namby-pamby power steering and four-wheel-drive so they can take it to the shops, permanent traction control... what the...?! :o

Anyway, the long rant is over. :roll: :lol:

Bentley and R-R should be thankfull to VW and and BMW for saving their ass. If it wasn't for them, the queen would start going to the french and buy herself a custom made C6 :) or something like this (joking, but I make a point). They were on the edge of bankrupcy(spelling...). If there is so much fuss about tradition and english class, why didn't the almighty classy english saved their skins in the first place? I know why: they were too obsessed with luxury that they weren't able to find their own solutions.

Things change and so do cars and so will the english do, but for the moment they are too stubborn to do it.

The germans are engineers and they do their job pretty well.

People went to the shops in Bentley, R-R and Lambo before too and never had a problem and so now that the cars have more high tech, they won't mind it either.

U r the guy who started the Gallardo crap and crapped argumeted forum too...

:lol: French car my arse. I don't know about B.M.W. and V.W. saving Bentley and Rolls' donkey. Don't start having a go at the British - it's your fucking country of choice that hasn't got any decent cars, not ours. We piss all over your industry. :evil: Romania as far as I'm aware doesn't have any car manufacturers.:lol:

If you think it's crap, that's your choice. There's plenty of people that agree with me (though not on this forum). :roll:

speed, i think you are one of the first people on this forum that has resorted to profane language. not that i am offended, but come on, gotta keep this site clean. we are all gentemen here (dont think there are any women)

:lol: French car my arse. I don't know about B.M.W. and V.W. saving Bentley and Rolls' donkey. Don't start having a go at the British - it's your fucking country of choice that hasn't got any decent cars, not ours. We piss all over your industry. :evil: Romania as far as I'm aware doesn't have any car manufacturers.:lol:

If you think it's crap, that's your choice. There's plenty of people that agree with me (though not on this forum). :roll:

... I had a bad feeling it will come to this.

My guess for the moment is that I'll try to stay as far away as I can from SpEeDiSaDdIcTiVe's posts.

This has got to get under control. Speed, that was way out of line. Your comments were undue and ignorant. It would be like me saying that british cars are american anyways, since england is just our stooge, and essentially just an american colony, and american companies own everything worthwhile of the british car industry? You like how that sounds? I don't either, so don't say stuff like that about people's countries. He was just being funny when he said the queen would have to buy French.

As far as BMW developing a specific engine for Rolls, why? The engine they put in there is about as good as you'll get. Why would they spend money to re-invent the wheel? Rolls has used BMW engines for some time, even when they were owned by vickers, they chose to buy BMW's V12s. McLaren F1 was powered by a BMW V12, and as far as I can tell, there is no engine i'd rather want in my rolls. BMW did a fine job of tuning their flexible motor to fit the personality of the rolls, and if you got in, not knowing where the engine came from, i assure you that you would like it. I will only say of bentley GT that it is a good car, not british by any means, but a decent car.

Personally, I like BMW engines. They are smooth, strong and flexible, I really like them. But not so much in a Rolls-Royce. The goodness of the BMW V12 is not in question, it's more a matter of purity. If they were going to create an entirely new Phantom from scratch, why not complete the resurection with a brand new engine, designed and built by Rolls engineers, with technical guidance from BMW? A real Roll-Royce engine that could be a mainstay for years.

When you buy these kind of cars, you should expect purity, and the British engineers to be left to do their own jobs.

back when rolls was owned by vickers, and was very very british, they chose to buy their engines from BMW. That alone speaks volumes. The british engineers without any influence made the choice to replace their 6.75L V8 with bmw's 5.4L V12 - and it did them well.

Well, back then Vickers was courting BMW, and VW too, because they were looking to unload Rolls and Bentley. They wanted to " modernize " the whole line to make it attractive for sale.

They put a modified 4.4 twin-turbo BMW V8 into the Arnage, making it the Green Label. Fine modern engine, but it's not what the buyers ( mostly drivers ) wanted. They wanted their ancient 6.75 back, and thats' what they got. And back then I don't think enough people ( mostly non-drivers ) bought Rolls enough to care about a non-Rolls engine.

But to get back to the original point, don't you think it would have been nicer to have a pure Rolls engine, designed and built in England, - why not?

Personally, I would rather have a British motor in a British car that is not as " refined " than a German one that was " perfect ". Which is one reason why I would still rather travel cross country in a Bentley Arnage than a new Phantom.

I just think that these marques should be put above the parts sharing frenzy. Rolls-Royce and Bentley should be a source of national pride for England, like Ferrari is to Italy. It's a little surprising that England hasn't kept a tighter grip on their auto industry. All their paychecks are comeing from Germany and the U.S. Hows' that for morale?

  • 1 Monat später...

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