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Mclaren F1 or Koenigsegg CC?


imported_felix

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I know that the torque curve of the Egg is more impressive, but the fact is that on the straight, it only achieved 4 more mph, and that obviously isn't hard to post consistant speeds. Plus, for all you know, Stig did familiarize himiself with the car. The Egg probably is faster than the Pagani more often than not, but all I'm saying is that the Egg is not in the clear to be the best because the Zonda is right there. Plus, with some different gearing, Pagani may close the top speed gap.

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I wouldn't bet on it. Pagani doesn't seem to wanna do much more to the current Zonda C12 S. The Koenigsegg CC S8 on the other hand is still continuously under development. For me, the final product is what counts.

And that "4MPH" advantage isn't to be taken lightly. I don't see how 4MPH is an ingignificant number (especially on the skidpad), when sometimes that's all it takes - in a race - for one car to win and the other to lose. Zonda is definitely a kick-ass pile of machinery that I'd shamelessly drool over until I was dehydrated, but the punch for punch the Egg has it beat, and it's got the advantage in several different categories. the gearing on the Zonda (while excellent) is not as good as the Egg's, and that's not likely to change. The Egg already has better gearing, yet it'll probably have even better gearing before the move to the V12. the current V8 Egg is more sport for money. Of course I wuoldn't forget the fact that the Egg has a 655BHP engine, versus the Zonda's "mere" (I use that term very lightly of course) ~550 horses.

The thing is that the Koenigsegg isn't even on sale yet. The Zonda is, and has been for some time, long enough for some one to have already crashed one. Pagani isn't going to just disapear as quickly as it appeared either. So Pagani isn't going to stop improving their cars. Koenigsegg isn't the best yet, and it won't be easy staying the best either.

No it definitely won't be easy, but I'll put my bets down on Koenigsegg. It appears that C.V.K. really knows what he's doing. So does Mr. Pagani, but I think Egg isn't going to give up until he's got the best damn car out there.

It already is nearly at the level of the CC. Plus, you don't know that Pagani doesn't have any tricks up their sleves. They could absolutely make updates that improve performance. Why do you consider Koenigsegg able to improve and not Pagani?

GIR, what are you talking about?? The Mercedes W125 is from 1937-38. And who has ever heard of the " Trust II " ?

The Pagani is more of a fashion plate than a performance revolutionist.

The Egg is just over-rated. It's not that they're taking their time perfecting it, they just that they don't know what to do. They are afraid to bring it into the light, because if it doesn't perform as hoped than everyone will hear about it, and they will be up the friggin' creek with their big talk. I mean, how long has it been that that thing has looked mechanically production ready? It's not as if the sanctity their whole national identity is on the line with this one goofy car. Come on.

I don't know what the economics of Sweden are, but if they cared as much about ending poverty, as they do about rounding up national support to develop that stupid car, wouldn't that be nice?

It already is nearly at the level of the CC. Plus, you don't know that Pagani doesn't have any tricks up their sleves. They could absolutely make updates that improve performance. Why do you consider Koenigsegg able to improve and not Pagani?

Not really. It's good that you're a dreamer, and I don't wanna spoil it for you, but Pagani just doesn't seem to be the kind who'd put his whole friggin' life and the lives of everyone in the country on hold just to develop a supercar. Koenigsegg, on the other hand, IS doing that. And LateNight, we're not arguing about whether it's right or wrong (hell, a lot of things about Sweden are wrong, such as their intense inner racism towards "coloured" nations), but Sweden is simply willing to put forth a coordinated effort to hold the title for "best supercar on the planet", and the creator isn't stopping at anything. Pagani seems more like a normal guy though. That's why I'm willing to bet that the Egg will beat the hell out of the Zonda in both the short term AND the long term.

Well, I just said it's wrong.

The Egg may very well end up an even more " super " supercar than the Pagani. Mr. Pagani is just happy to build a nice car with his name on it I think.

In the end, I don't think the Egg will make much of a splash, when they finally get the nerve to show it's face. It may be cool for about a minute, and then fade away as just another obscure exotic car.

The all out speed of the McLaren may be eclipsed, but it's prominent place in history, and in the fantasies of many people is rock solid.

True dat.

Pagani originally set out to build "the world's most beautiful supercar", and the Zonda IS arguably one of the most beautiful supercars out there. I don't think Pagani planning on outdoing every other supercar-maker.

You never know what can happen, so for all we know the Egg could disappear as quickly as it comes into the spotlight, like you said. Then again it could become the next McLaren F1. We'll just have to wait and see....

GIR, what are you talking about?? The Mercedes W125 is from 1937-38. And who has ever heard of the " Trust II " ?

I'm sorry it's called the Thrust SSC and not Thrust II, Thrust II was it's working name. The Thrust has set a peak of 1240.77 km/h (771 mph) and an average of 1233.704 km/h (766.609 mph). With this it is the fastest car in the world and the first car to official go beyond the sound barrier.

After 65 years the record set by the W125 of 293 mph still stands, even more impressive because the tech wasn't as advanced in those days. No ECU, no blowers no nothing. Just car, engine and driver.

Pagani never set out to build the worlds fastest car, I don't think MB wouldn't have sold them the engine if they ever planned on doing so, with the SLR coming out and all. What they did however was drive the car allover Europe to prove it's durable and gets a good mileage.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the Egg can do on record. But infront of the world press it unofficialy already beat the F1 by setting an average of 242 mph which is 2 mph above the F1.

Actually, being from The Netherlands, I don't know how familiar you are with American " funny car " racers, but they routinely break 300 mph. on their short runs up the drag strip, often way above that. With something like 6,000 horsepower comeing out of their internal combustion engines, they pack a wollop.

Oh god Cable if you don't understand just keep out okay. First of all did anybody ever take the time to scientificaly measure the speed of those cars? Second of all the speed is measured over an average of 2 runs over a x distance, I can't remember the exact distance anymore but I'm sure you can look it up in the FIAA regulations. The car has to go in one direction and then turn around and go for a second run. If you know the distance and you know the time you can calculate the speed.

Do you think those liquide nitrogen powered cars could survive a run that long? and how would you turn that car around?

Those funny cars are by defenition not a car. First of all all 4 tires have to stay on the ground at all times, which is kinda impossible when it comes to funny cars. Second the car has to be stable on it's own without any help from outside sources, those huge stabelizing arms which keep the car from flipping over are outside sources. And third the car has to weight less then 3000kg.

The US doesn't have exclusive rights on funny cars or things like that, common mistake made by people like you. Infact the record for the worlds most powerfull engine is in Dutch hands. The White Horse X which had 32.8700 bhp of power and could pull 25 tons over 100 meters in 3.6 seconds but after one run it needed a complete revision.

Here are some pictures of it's little brother the White Horse VII after 1 run:

http://snow.prohosting.com/domme095/wh08_rep.htm

http://snow.prohosting.com/domme095/wh08_rep1.htm

http://snow.prohosting.com/domme095/wh08_rep2.htm

http://snow.prohosting.com/domme095/wh08_rep3.htm

OK children, break it up. GIR, let's be nicer please. I don't think he appreciates benig told to keep out. Let him have his say. Even if he's wrong and you're right. And LateNight, don't diss GIR about his country. I don't care who started it. If you kids don't keep quiet I'm turning this car around! :wink:

GIR, I didn't say America had exclusive rights to " funny cars ". But they are indeed " cars ", they have four wheels, ( actually six if you count the wheelie bars ) and a steering wheel, thats why they are called " funny cars "

They are indeed clocked at over 300 mph. try watching it sometime, they fly. I brought up funny cars because you mentioned the Thrust II, which was a huge jet powered one off of a thing, and probably less of a car than a funnycar. So if you want to talk about fast internal combustion powered cars, meaning a block with pistons, I think funnycar dragsters are fair game. And yes, I am right about this.

Tell me how I " dissed " GIR's country? By mentioning that he is from The Netherlands? He is.

Actually, I just checked the FIA site (www.fia.com) and they have a special category for cars like that.

1/4 M SS 174.825 281.354 Top Fuel Dragster "Snowman" Top Fuel Dragster "Snowman" Gene Snow 12.06.1988 9

The record was set in 1988 by the Top Fuel Dragster driven by Gene Snow aka Snowman, over a 1/4 mile, from a standing start and it only reached a topspeed of 174.825 mph which is 281.354 km/h. It set the record in the Reciprocating 2 or 4 stroke of over 8000 cm3 category. I think the 300mph you are talking about are grossly over exhadurated.

This one is a long dragster so it didn't require a stabelizing arm, the first and foremost requirement of a car is that it has 4 wheels and all 4 wheel stay on the ground at all times.

So, what about the guy down the street with a pro stock Chevy Nova equipped with wheelie bars? You say that isn't a car? Or when the front wheels leave the ground, it's suddenly not a car anymore? I don't know anything about " Snowman ", but what I do know is this...

Top 5 Fastest Funny Car Speeds of 2001 ...

mph. Driver. Date.

325.69 ..... Whit Bazemore ..... 9/1/2001

325.45 ..... Whit Bazemore ..... 9/30/2001

325.37 ..... W. Bazemore ....... 10/30/2001

325.14 ..... John Force ........... 10/6/2001

324.98 ..... Gary Densham ..... 11/11/2001

Every one of them set by a Funny Car.

But, for the sake of staying on topic, since I know how much Izzy is a stickler for it, I will say, I would take a Pagani just because it looks prettier that an Egg :) .

That's what everybody has agreed on, a car has 4 wheels and all 4 wheels stay on the ground. You can accept it or reject it, but rejecting it is kinda like saying: "I reject the color green". The guyz building the Thrust SCC had to comply with this, the guyz duilding the W125 had to comply with this so the guyz building dragsters have to comply with it aswell.

If you wanna argue about wether a car is a car just becuase it has more then 4 wheels or the front wheels come of the ground I suggest you take it up with the FIA and the World Lingiustic Organisation.

Funny thing, cause when I told you that the F1 was beaten unofficialy you had a problem with that. But now you suddenly pull up unofficial records of unregistered races for unregistered cars.

Why don't you just pack up your argument GIR and go home. You're having a bad day. You were the one who made an issue about a car needing four wheels on the ground to be a car, not me. You argue with FIA and the Word Linguistic Orginization, take it up with Colin McRay for that matter. You still have'nt answered about the Nova down the street.

And what do you mean a car must have four wheels? " thats' what everybody has agreed on " who's " everybody "? The fact is, they call it a funny CAR, it has FOUR primary wheels, which stay planted on the ground most of the time. It just goes faster than you knew, thats your problem with it.

I don't have a problem with the F1's top speed being eclipsed, there will always be faster cars, but it's still a legend. Read my above posts.

All you have to do is research any of those drivers, and you will find that those speeds have been officially recorded, what cars they drove to get them, and where. I'm not going to pull it all out for you, if you want the truth, you'll have to look for it yourself.

And to quote you from a Mercedes post. " Why the hostility, I don't know you like this? "

Like I said the World linguistic organisation and the FIA define a car as having 4 wheels which stay on the ground at all times and a streeing wheel. If you want to go against that then you might just aswell not call the color green, green anymore but call is 2. Maybe pull out a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word car.

Whos' to say the 2 aditional wheels on the stabelizing arm aren't primary wheels aswell? It needs those wheels, try taking them off if you want, or else it will flip over. So it has 6 wheels and not 4, thus it's not a car.

It's just general stupidity, I can't take it. Just like when you said 7G-tronic isn't a big thing and said electronics is a "shady science". You obviously open your mouth without knowing what you're talking about and I won't let you insult my profession or my passion.

Dang it, I told you 2 to pipe down. I mean it. We don't need the hostility here. One more word and I'm seriously turning this car around, DAMN IT!

Why can't you both just agree to disagree instead of going at each other's throats and fighting like a bunch of kids? It's stupid, and no one needs it. We sure as hell don't want it here. If you have a serious disagreement in your argument, that's fine, but you're both insulting each other, and waaaaaay too much at that. I've been involved in arguments with hundreds of people over thousands of different topics (literally) and I never resorted to this shit. Please be more friendly.

:x

how's this, you are both wrong.

GIR is an EE, my best freind is an EE/CS guy, they are amazingly bright people, and electronics is hardly a shady science, but it can't repeal the laws of physics. Furthermore, so what if they shot another gear in there, it'l be a bit faster and smoother, but it's still a converntional planetary gear auto. It's dual sun layout? so what? so is the ZF 6spd.

You're arguments are frivalous. Calm down and use evidence when you bitch.

that is all.

I am simply letting GIR know that a car does not need four wheels on the ground at all times to be a car. A funny car is a car, thats' why they call it a car, most everyone would. It sits on four primary tires, I'll put it that way, and it has a steering wheel too, for the driver to steer with, get it? The Pro Srock Nova is a car, even though it has wheelie bars, the Subaru WRX on television is a car, even though it's flying a good three feet into the air. There is nothing wrong about that.

Excerpt from Webster's Third New World Dictionary ...

CAR - 1: A vehicle moving on wheels : Automobile; esp, a private passenger automobile as destinguished from a bus or truck.

It also goes on to talk about train cars and horse drawn carriages which often have more or less than four wheels.

My point made. I'll bet GIR still thinks I drive a 745Li. Real bright.

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