McLaren F1 or Bugatti Veyron?

[izzyloveslizzy]

Well it's obvious you didn't bother read it. That's OK.

Yes I know what you're saying. But how is the argument related to either of the two cars, when you go on and on about metals and carbon-fibre juice and etc.. It should at least give people a slight idea of what they were initially talking about, and let's face it, when you read all that stuff about the metals and things, you're more likely to think that that's exactly what the thread has been about. If you still disagree, then carry on with the excessively off-topic jumble of discussions that shift every which way anytime someone says something slightly offtopic, like hello (just an example; I know you're going to be sarcastic and try to turn that around and use it against me somehow).

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Hallo imported_felix,

 

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[crazywheel]

Hello! I've had patience enough to read all the posts for this topic and the discussion is quite interesting 8) By the way, for me this two cars (veyron and f1) are so different that it would be impossible decide one of them. For me the Veyron is more than a car, is simply, ART, like the old and true bugatti's. Do you remember the Royale? or the Type 35? This is Bugatti, the best brand of automotive history!!!

[izzyloveslizzy]

Hey Crazywheel. Welcome to the site. Thanks for showing patience and reading all the posst. However most people don't share that trait and most wouldn't even bother read 2 posts out of each thread. Especially if they get bored with the subjects.

I think the McLaren was also "art", and it was a historic classic, a piece of engineering that will be forever remembered. Eventhough the Veyron is one of my favorites, it has yet to accomplish that.

[kleinefisch]

Now that we're back on track, Bugatti is something that Mclaren can never be. It is the deffinition of love for driving, art, sex, and the Italian personna. Mclaren is a wonderful engineer, but I don't think that it could make an exibit at the Guggenheim. Any Bugatti from the past to the present, could do this however. Bugatti has an image even more pure than that of Ferrari, and VW doesn't tarnish this whatsoever. A man with a lot of maney to burn on a fast, sexy, road racing car is going to buy a Ferrari or Mclaren (not to be offensive as I myself have a Ferrari), and a conisseur of automobiles will buy a Bugatti. In my opinion, Bugatti has the most desireable image of any car out there.

[LateNightCable]

Welcome to the club Crazywheel, I hope you continue to be interested in the forums .

I think if anything important needs to be said in a given topic, it will have been said by the first or second page. And anyone who ventures into the fourth, fifth, or sixth page, which there often is, is obviously enjoying the diologue or they wouldn't be there. Thats' why I see no problem with a little slack. Thats all.

Old Bugattis' are beautiful, VW has done a fairly good job disconnecting from it's own design philosophy, when creating this car - and thats' saying something for VW who usually have a one track mind stylistically. Alfa is another maker who is once again drawing upon it's rich design history, they are creating some of their most beautiful cars in decades .

[crazywheel]

Thank you very much for your welcome, all of yours. Now I've just seen your car list and I can't believe what I'm seeing. Lambos, TVR's, M3's. For me those cars are dreams. Well, it's a pleasure to participate in this forum. I'm agree with all of you, because the Mclaren is a piece of engineering art, and the bugatti is the resurrection of the best brand of automoviles. I am fan of Bugatti since I was 11 (now I am 23) and I felt in love with EB110. Then I began to interesting in Bugatti's history, but without forget the other brands, such as Lamborghini, Porsche, Ferrari, Chevrolet and, of course McLaren. Because, why we should focuse on only a brand, when we can enjoy all of them? By the way, I think that if the McLaren reach 380km/h with a "normal" engine, how much it would reach with a 1001 HP engine? OH! I almost forgeting, there are a more actual version of the Veyron than the one that you show on this page. The main difference are the extra air intake apertures located just behind the front wheels. There are good photos at www.bugatti-cars.com , inside the chapter "library". And at Frankfurt Motorshow, Bugatti showed a Veyron on two variations of grey color. Photos of this at http://www.carenthusiast.com/frankfurt2003.html , just click on the image of veyron. Have fun! ANd if you want more Bugatti images just say me

PD Sorry by my English, I hope that you can understand me, but my level is no as good as it should be.

[thepolarfoxqx]

nothing about bugatti is italian (well, the EB110 was made there, but beside the point), it was originally a french marque, the Veyron is a volkswagen through and through. it was made by a german designer at VW's in house design studio. The EB110 was better car than Veyron, more than straight lines, EB110 could corner too.

Veyron is not art, it is not a bugatti, it is the Evil Empire of VW's attempt at those things.

VW is in an illness, i swear.

[kleinefisch]

How can you say that this is not art?

This is art to the highest degree. Plus, the Bugatti lineage is Italian. The cars are all Italian at heart, even though they come out of France. But that doesn't really matter because both nations and cultures are known for their art, they are very similar cultures. I am not going to argue about what is art, but I don't think that Bugatti would put out a car with the name of their beloved founder and legendary drivers if they didn't feel that it did them justice, VW or not.

[thepolarfoxqx]

uh, no, they are very much french. that isn't art either.

[LateNightCable]

I would have to agree that the Veyron is art, whether it's good art is a personal thing. But it's design is deffinately intended to be an " artistic exercise ". As opposed to the " utilitarian expression " of say a Yugo. One is meant to be artistic, qualifying it as someone's idea of art, and the other, the Yugo, makes no attempt at anything resembling art.

Most of the design detailing of the Veyron is obviously not intended to increase it's practicality, so the exsistence of such detailing is for the sake of art.

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Hallo imported_felix,

 

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[thepolarfoxqx]

it is different and ostentatious for the purpose of looking different and ostentatious, not for beauty. there are artistic and beautiful cars, this is art in the same way that painting by numbers is.

[crazywheel]

Sorry, but I don't agree with you (thepolarfoxqx) in anything . First of all, the design of this car was made by Roberto Giugiaro and his team, and believe me they aren't German, they are Italian, and the car has a much to do with Italdesign. By the way, Bugatti is a French brand (the factory was located in Molsheim, Alsacia and nowadays the plant is been built again), not Italian. Other thing is that this PIECE OF ART has a lot of details from the past of L'Marque, such us the fine edge lenght-wise following the full lenght of the car (S Atlantic Coupe, 1937) or even the two colors used in the automovile (Bugatti T50T, 1930's) and of course, the chromium-plated radiator shutter and its unmistakable "bugattian" design. All of this demonstrate that VW want to make a very special automovile, not only a fast and brutal car, but a resume of a part of Bugatti's History. And yes, this car is ostentatious, but this is a remembering of the past even, or don't you know the Bugatti T41 Royale (1929)? That automobile was the most ostentatius car on the automotive history. So, I can understand that you don't like the Veyron, but please, don't say stupid things, and the next time try to be a bit more informed before treat a grate car such us the Veyron as a horror. :x

[LateNightCable]

Some may see the art of Andy Warhol as " ostentatious ", but it's still art.

On the subject of what nationality the Buggati marque is, consider the fact that Alejandro DeTomaso was an Argentinian who fled to Italy, and then proceeded to build his cars their - in Italy. So DeTomaso cars, and the marque itself, are universally recognized as Italian.

[kleinefisch]

And I've heard somwhere that Senior Pagani was from Argentine, but his cars are most certainly Italian. Also like I said, it doesn't matter, because even if Bugatti's are French, the Veyron is art, whether you agree with it or not, and was designed to be beautiful and sexy and sleek and gorgeous, it wouldn't have the initials EB on it if it wasn't, and the F1 was not designed with that in mind, but just raw performance. This is absolutely not a bad trait, but in my opinion, the Veyron is a better car because its has better performance than most cars and is beautiful, to me anyways.

[LateNightCable]

Actually, the F1 was designed with sleek and sexy in mind, as well as aerodynamics. Although it embodies a very different asthetic than the Veyron, Gordon Murray most definately styled that car. A sportscar, especially one reaching the caliber of the McLaren F1, has to be created with good looks in mind.

[thepolarfoxqx]

the F1 was a new direction in seductive style, it was equal parts classic sporty prowess and modern art. It's a hell of a stretch to say anything that revolutionary isn't art.

[kleinefisch]

I would have to say that the interior of the Bugatti is far more appealing than that of the Mclaren.

Bugatti:

Mclaren:

[thepolarfoxqx]

yeah, that explains why bugatti approaches twice the weight of mclaren.

[crazywheel]

Veyron was created to resurrect the Bugatti's legend, and this would not be possible if they don't take care all the details. Te interior is very luxurious and ostentatious, not as the ones of McLaren F1 more focused on sportiveness. But you can't forget that the interior of F1 was designed on 1991, this is 12 years ago, and even then, it was designed to hear the sound of its Kenwood perfectly, not in vain the designed of the interior of F1 was inspired on Sydney's Music Hall to guarantee a perfect acoustic. And obviously the reduction of weight was a priority in the case of McLaren, but not too much in the Veyron. And if we speak about engineering or security systems, I think that would be very hard to improve the system COP (Center of Pressure) of the McLaren F1. So the Veyron and the F1 are the "sumum" of automotive industry and both are writing golden pages in the automovile's history. I prefer Veyron only because I am a fan of Bugatti and I am feeling enthusiastic about the idea that this brand can resurrect, but I recognise that F1 was, is and will be an authentic legend. 8)

PD. Sorry by my spelling

[kleinefisch]

Both cars will set you back over $1,000,000, both have incredible power and performance, both have racing pedigrees, incredible build quality, both are masterpieces, and both are legends (well I feel that the Veyron will become one, and Bugatti certainly is a legend). Opinion is what separates the two. If you want pure performance and crazy driving, F1 is the car. If you want style and legend, go Veyron.

[cujo44]

i like the McLaren F1 over the veyron because of the sheer performance of the car. although i have not seen the specs of the veyron i bet it goes pretty fast considering that massive, beafy W18 engine. i think the F1 is alot sexier and i love the interior alot more. i know that the veyron has history to it. but i just dont like that look to the interior of the veyron. besides i love how the F1 is an actual formula one style layout with the driver sitting ahead of the gas tank and engine in the middle of the car

[LateNightCable]

Actually, the Bugatti marque has history, the Veyron has none. It's simply a car Volkswagen has been building the mistique of forever.

[kleinefisch]

I think that both cars are amazing but that its time to move on from the F1, its time for something new. It looks as though the Keonigsegg will take the top speed title from the F1, but if the figures of the Veyron are accurate, it won't hold that title for long.

[izzyloveslizzy]

it is different and ostentatious for the purpose of looking different and ostentatious, not for beauty. there are artistic and beautiful cars, this is art in the same way that painting by numbers is.

You have an obsession with the word "Ostentatious" Fox! This is the 3rd time I've seen it in your posts!

Kleinefisch, comparing a 5+ year-old interior to a brand-spankin' new design is kind'a unfair I think. Not that the McLaren didn't get it's fair shair of criticism for it's interior, but I'm just saying....

[AZCDUDE]

Sorry dude but I'll say Mclaren 4ever