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McLaren F1 or Bugatti Veyron?


imported_felix

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Shredded paper seats in exotic cars! And you thought that the Mercedes plastic door handles were poor taste. Aluminum space frames also would be expensive. It makes no sense that companies would be coming out with such amazing cars at times like these, but who can figure, I'm happy.

The weallthy never really suffer, the system is set up that way.

Nice to see you're not brainwashed by the media and government to think otherwise.

There's always Titanium. :D

Yeah, and there's always Titanium alloy(s). :D

a relative of mine, who happens to be a republican state senator once said "the worst thing that ever happened to america is liberals got money". Lol, yeah, it's true. i'm living proof. I have a little "democratic party thingy on my J. Tiffany and Co. platinum key chain with jaguar, porshce, and bmw keys next to it. It disgusts my family. I'll tell ya, the system is set up that way, people talk about recession, i haven't felt any of it, wanna guess why?

Titanium alloy would be a great material if it weren't so expensive (and relatively heavy).

Well, I'm not an expert on exotic metals, but isn't the drawing card on titanium supposed to be lightness?

Yeah, this recession talk is crap. There hasn't been a real recession in this country since world war two, and even that was more like a rationing. After that, people were living better that ever. The only thing a " recession " means today, is that the corporate big wigs aren't making the kind of money that they would like, because people aren't buying as much. When this happens, the big wigs get shitty, and threaten people's jobs, which does not make them want to spend at all. It's a circle. The corporate jackoffs really just need to quit the crap and quit being greedy about everything, so everyone can profit off these times - which are really booming.

no, trust me, there are unemployed, just no one you or i know. our buddies fire people to make sure the bonus check is nice and fat.

titanium's trump card is it very very rugged, it can go through hell and survive, it's very resistant to heat too.

i don't have the choice not to buddy around with them when they're blood relation.

my family has a long history of evil business practice.

my grandfather was executive VP of Nalco Chemcial back in the day (a fortune 500 company) in charge of international opps, his job was to set up production facilities in 3rd world countries with no pollution or human rights laws. My dad's family lived in south afrika as a result, so now when he gets angry, he can shout angry afrikaans at people :P

My uncle was bragging about how he laid off like 3,600 people in a day from taylor corp the other day. that's sick when you think about it on that level isn't it?

Sick on any level. I suggest you sit your uncle down and have a strong word with him. That dudes' from the old world where people strive for power and step all over everybody. Things can't stay that way forever. From the sound of it he's just an asshole to the core. Bragging about laying people off?

Dang. It seems everytime I say something off-topic, the entire thread collapses! Heh, you two are having quite the conversation about this shiznit. Good to see people inamerica still like to use their brains. For a while it seemed like everyone had forgotten abuot the pink blob of goo in their skull. Thanx for showing some good-ol' intelligence guys. I become more hopeful of "apple-pie county" when I hear or read stuff like this.

The truth is, the big corporations and the super-rich are at the very top, and too far to be reached. even if anything appens, it's the people further down the chain who get crushed. If you really research it, there truly hasn't been a recession in America since the mid-1930's. Ever since then, recession has been used as a trick-word. Everytime the people at the top aren't making as much profit as they used to, they call it a recession, and everyone else just believes is because it's everywheer in the media (makes sense, since the rich and powerful are the ones who control the media). In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they created "recessions" for their own reasons. Of course, this is not to say that everyone doesn't suffer when the leeches at the top don't profit from blood. But the only reason everyone feels the hurt is because the people at the top have to cut the shares and profits of the people further down the ranks, to make up for their own "losses". I've had close personal experiences with filthy-rich opwerful people, not-unlike what Fox says about his uncle. I nkow one thing for a fact, and that's this: the more powerful the become, the less they care, and the more they suffer in the long-term, and we will suffer with them. Too bad the world can't be changed.

I don't want to take this thing further off topic though. Titanium used to be the "carbon-fibre" of the time some 20 years ago (if I'm not mistaken). It still has broad applications, and the potential for it's usability is great. If more auto-manufacturers follow the same road companies like BMW take, and combine steel, aluminum, carbon-fiber, and the various alloys and use each where it is most effective, the cars we drive will become better and better as a result. The BMW 5 has a carbon-fibre front-section, while the rest of it is a combo of Aluminum-alloy and steel. The result is a 50:50 split in weight. It ought'a have great handling and stability. If I was going to invest on one material for the future, it'd be carbon-fibre. I'll leave the rest to the chemics and engineers.

Carbon fiber is an amazing material in that its super light, super strong, and can be made to any shape need. The problem is that not many people know how to do this, and therefore, it is very expensive (even a carbon fiber pen is $50+). Titanium is very strong, very heat resistant, and its is very light too. Its problem is that it is extremely hard to machine, even harder than aluminum. For this reason, titanium is very expensive too.

titanium is for it's volume, very heavy, but it's strength lets you use less. it works well for applications where something small and strong is needed.

carbon fiber is only getting cheaper to make, if you think about it, it isn't exotic stuff at all.

Everything is getting cheaper to make. Carbon Fiber still costs way too much to be ubiquitous in the industry. You only ever see carbon-fiber monocoques and interiors lavishly appointed with the stuff in exotic cars. Same thing with titanium. Every engine could be better with less reciprocating mass and higher heat resistance materials, but it just costs too much to be practical (in general).

You know, I never considered Carbon-Fibre to be "exotic" stuff. I don't know where you got that from.

It costs too much to be practical? Well, that might be the case for some, and only at the moment. That won't be for far too long though.

I hope that youre right in that carbon composites are not too far off. And carbon fiber is exotic stuff. You only ever really see it in stock cars that cost over $90,000, and not until you get to the $180,000+ price range do you see it in quantity. Not until carbon becomes cheaper will you see it being used in Acura's and Toyota's or else you already would have. It's lighter, and that's what economy cars want.

True, but I don't think any of us are expecting it in the short term for cars such as cheap Kias, Hyundais, Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas. But we're already seeing it being used by BMW, for example, and that a good start. Besides, it only makes sense that this new carbon-composite trend catches on. It's very useful. It can help a car with speed, acceleration, stability, control, handling, fuel-mileage, emissions, safety, efficiency, and - in the long term - building costs. It's good for auto makers to invest in it, and the sooner they do that, the sooner prices will fall.

The price of carbon fiber may drop, the more common the use of it becomes, but I don't think the cost of producing it, or working with it will ever be " cheap ". Not unless they invent a simpler way of working with the stuff. Like Coca-cola as opposed to fine French wine.

Patience, LateNight. It'll happen.

BTW this discussion has gotten too far off topic. It was originally about F1 versus Veyron, and now it's about materials for building cars. I think a different thread should be created for talking about his, and we should get back to discussing F1s and Veyrons and which is better. It can be misleading for newer users who come here because of the thread's title. Once they click on the thread link, they realize the discussion is no longer about what they clicked on, and they won't be interested anymore. That's why we should try not to get too far off topic. I'd appreciate it if everyone else respected this as well.

I have plenty of patience. It's not like I lay awake at night and think about when carbon fiber will be cheaper, personally, I don't think about it at all.

Izzy, you are much too picky about staying " on topic ". All people have to do is start reading from the beginning of the thread, and they will see how the subject changed. You can't regiment the flow of conversation. If you do, it limits everyone's range of expressing themselves. You are the only one making an issue of it and you are here all the time. If we needed a new thread for everything that comes up, we would be swimming through more threads than Calvin Klein. You just have to let the thread flow like a creek, while still remembering what the original topic was. As I said before, it always comes back around. Just take it easy - patience.

I have plenty of patience. It's not like I lay awake at night and think about when carbon fiber will be cheaper, ....

ROFL! LOL! Hehehe! Well, I think it would be really funny if you actually did! There you'd be, lying on your bed at night, going: "Oh God, I hope Carbon-Fibre will be cheaper tomorrow! Oh God please let it be cheaper tomorrow! Oh I can't live another moment if Carbon-Fibre prices stay high! Oh God what am I gonna do!" LOL!

Aaaaanyways...!

... personally, I don't think about it at all.

O.K.. I just meant that if you wanna see it happen you're gonna have to have some patience (which, apparently, as you say, you already have plenty of; so you're good). I'm sure it's gonna happen.

Izzy, you are much too picky about staying "on topic".

Umm, not really, I'm not "TOO" picky about it. But I'm a moderator, and I'm just trying to enforce the rule that Roland wants me to enforce. One of the things we have to make sure doesn't happen is "people getting too off-topic in threads". I kind'a agree too.

All people have to do is start reading from the beginning of the thread, and they will see how the subject changed. You can't regiment the flow of conversation. If you do, it limits everyone's range of expressing themselves. You are the only one making an issue of it and you are here all the time.

You know, the average person who clicks on a thread, doesn't want to read 6 pages of posts just to get to the last one so he can decide whether he has something to say about it or not. You follow? I know it's difficult to regiment the flow of conversation, but you gotta draw the line somewhere, and you'll have to sympathize with the newer users. One of the complaints I've gotten from new users (or even people who've been here some time) is that the discussions are too mixed and they don't stay interesting. These people (who's names I won't disclose) seem to be talking about the same thing. I still chat with them on Yahoo! or MSN from time to time, and when I invite them back to the forums here, they all seem to be saying the same thing. It's just too much for some people to have to conversate much about anything, let alone when a relatively simple argument such as F1 versus Veyron turns into something totally different about metals and materials, about which, quite frankly, most people don't give a rat's ass. I don't agree that it limits people's range of expressing themselves. At least, it might for a few people, but most people should be fine with it, I think. And just because "I'm here all the time" doesn't mean I can't suggest we stay on topic! Come-on, man! Don't have a negative attitude about it. What kind'a mod. would I be if I didn't do anything to clean up the forums and threads?

If we needed a new thread for everything that comes up, we would be swimming through more threads than Calvin Klein.

LOL! OK, that's a reasonable thing to say, and I can respect that, but the fact is that we already have a huge number of threads. By the way I wonder if Calvin Klein is literally swimming through thread! :wink:

You just have to let the thread flow like a creek, while still remembering what the original topic was.

Let the thread "flow like a creek"? Now you're just getting weird dude! Heh! J/K. OK. If you read through the thread(s), you'll notice that usually not one person remembers what the original topic was. Go see for yourself. Everywhere someone (myself included, admittedly) innocently says ONE thing that's slightly off the topic, the entire friggin' thing collapses and mutates.

As I said before, it always comes back around. Just take it easy - patience.

If you read everything I said carefully, you might realize that I'm not the one who needs to have patience!!!!. :roll:

That, my friend, is my 2 cents. Actually, umm, uhh, let me see here, uh, oh right, OK; that is my 46 cents. That's more like it. :wink:

Okay, now you're just getting completely off topic. What does any of this have to do with Bugattis' and McLarens :wink::D ?

Seriously though, staying on topic is important, but I think you may be a little heavy handed about it. The materials we were discussing do relate to the cars which are the subject of this thread. And if " most people don't give a rat's ass " about those materials, then perhaps this forum is above their heads. I'm sure I am not the only one around here who prefers intelligent discussions, that go deeper than your average " mine is faster than yours " small talk. And if it goes all the way to " materials ", than so be it. That depth is a big part of what keeps this one of the most intelligent auto forums on the net, with members you can gain real information from. The small talkers get bored and leave.

As a moderator, it is your job to hold down the fort so to speak, but Polar, who is also a moderator is a lot more easy going about it.

Yeah and so is GIR. But that doesn't mean we all have to act the same. And besides I'm just diong my job. And you know what, if a few people want to leave because it's just small talk, and a few other people wanna leave because it's too complicated, then those people wouldn't've stayed that long anyway. I didn't mean reduce it to small chit chat and petty arguments like "mine's faster than yours". I just meant it should be abuot the topic. Much of what we talked about with the materials and the metals and carbon-fibre and what-not ddin't have any mention of McLaren or Bugatti. And I'd appreciate it if you actually read my last post, because I answered it all in depth but you seemingly seem to be repeating the exact same thing.

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