Jump to content
EUROPAS GROßE
SPORTWAGEN COMMUNITY

Any doubters of the mighty bugatti?


imported_felix

Empfohlene Beiträge

Okay consider this.

The Veyron is essential a VW car, it has VW tech all over it and is probably co-designed by VW engineers. For a VW car it is just way over priced. A price of 200k to 300k would be much more acceptable. Ofcourse not to forget that this car is targeted towards people who are swimming in money, it's for people who want to be brag with it and be able to say: "How many of this has your car got? Well mine has more!". For that kind of people, who don't care how much it costs, this might seem like the ultimate car and they might buy it with some form of satisfaction but that's all an illusion.

VW just want's to make a name for Bugatti by making a car like this. Everybody (I guess 99% of the world) who can't afford it or will never drive it will look at the specsheet and go WOW! Ofcourse on paper this looks like a very top noch car, but that is also an illusion. Just look at the leaked information. We know the topspeed and the horsepower (meaningless figures) but what about the torque, torque curve and the curb weight? Those figures mean much and much more but we don't have those! Why doesn't VW want us to have those?

I recommend you read this:

http://www.carpassion.com/en/forum/viewtopic.php?t=840

Other supercars have had very long development cycles, this car has had the shortest of them all. It's as if they slapped every performance part they could find together and this is what they got.

For an engine of that size and that tech it's is way under powered.

With an engine of that size the topspeed is to be expected, the KoenigsEgg has almost the same topspeed with a much smaller engine and is much cheaper.

To summarize, the car is too expensive, too VW, too heavy and too underpowered. If I ever will get the option to chose between a Veyron and KoenigsEgg I'd go for the Egg without hesitating.

Jetzt registrieren, um Themenwerbung zu deaktivieren »

Well, the egg only has 8 cylenders, any only fool can have a car with 8, why not 16? go double.

The veyron is engineering of excess, the most, the biggest, the most glamerous, the highest of this. It is a great spec sheet car, and a heck of an underachiever. I can name a dozen ways that the Veyron's engineering doesn't deliver half what it should.

A car of practical design, meant for sheer performance, and just that, no glam, nothing coming above design and functionality like the CCV8.

The veyron underpowered? Lettme bring up the put in which the Caddilac sixteen, and the Audi Rosemeyer both have a V16. Are they underpowered? the Rosemeyer was just a wanna be Veyron. The veyron is 35mph faster and has 361 more hp. So the Bugatti is underpowered for an engine its size? there isnt much of a difference between a V16 and a W16

Rosemayer had over 300 fewer horsepower, 50% less power, yet was only 30mph slower top end. I am pretty sure that makes Bugatti hell inefficient in comparison.

Listen, with a quad turbo 8.0L engine with as much junk as they've piled on, it should be cranking more power. The 6.0L Twin turbo Lotec Sirius V12 makes 1,334. That sounds pretty good to me.

1334/6=222.3hp/l

987/8=123.37

So, 8*223.3=1,786hp.

I think veyron's engine should be making 1,786hp. You think that is too much horsepower? I think they used far too big of an engine.

No one ever said they were building a cadillac sixteen (GM says NO) or a Rosemayer. VW Has made it clear they want to sell Veyrons.

  • 2 Wochen später...

actually, so is the bugatti's, it has yet to actually go 252mph, that is redline in 7th gear. They have just projected 252mph, there is the unlikely possibility is could sorely dissapoint yet.

Who said anything about measuring by looks? It's just an awful car! So what if it does 250 m.p.h? It's a pointless car made for people who like shouting figures about. Give me an Aston DB7 any day.

amen to the DB7, i don't think the Veyron will be that stunning of a performer, it has PR down, I mean listen "Ours has more cylenders, more horsepower, more valves, more turbos, more gears, and more mile per hour than anything else on the market, also the most expensive!"

Here is my question. If a 2,600lb Ferrari Enzo with 660hp gets 8/12 gas mileage, what will a 4,400lb Bugatti with 1,001 horsepower get?

I figure it to abominably bad.

amen to the DB7, i don't think the Veyron will be that stunning of a performer, it has PR down, I mean listen "Ours has more cylenders, more horsepower, more valves, more turbos, more gears, and more mile per hour than anything else on the market, also the most expensive!"

Here is my question. If a 2,600lb Ferrari Enzo with 660hp gets 8/12 gas mileage, what will a 4,400lb Bugatti with 1,001 horsepower get?

I figure it to abominably bad.

It helps if you change from 'miles-per-gallon to gallons-per-mile. Like I said, it's a pointless exercise. I can list the true sports car manufacturers on one hand now.

The biggest shames are Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Maserati. They've all forgotten what they were created for. All of them have lost their way. I suppose that's why more people than ever are buying classic cars....

maserati is an arm of ferrari now, be nice to them, they were mutilated by fiat, citroen, and chrysler before they came to Ferrari, now they make comfortable and fast cruisers, good one. Ferrari still makes a respectable sports car. Jaguar and Aston i fear may be getting destroyed by ford. I think it is time for a new generation of sports car manufacturers to emerge.

maserati is an arm of ferrari now, be nice to them, they were mutilated by fiat, citroen, and chrysler before they came to Ferrari, now they make comfortable and fast cruisers, good one. Ferrari still makes a respectable sports car. Jaguar and Aston i fear may be getting destroyed by ford. I think it is time for a new generation of sports car manufacturers to emerge.

True, but they should be creating individual sports cars. I'm not alone in feeling they produce cars too close to Ferraris. I lost all respect for Ferrari years ago - they aren't what they were. They've lost integrity. Jaguar is okay for now - there's hardly any Ford parts bin rummaging, and the same goes for Aston. Okay, so the V12 engine wasn't made by Aston, but it was made by Cosworth, which is a British firm. I don't see how they are being ruined by Ford - save the big red starter button fitted for Americans. It's Bentley, Rolls etc. that have the problems with that I think.

There are new generations of sports cars - Noble, Ascari, TVR - all of them keep their integrity and are self-owned British manufacturers.

cosworth, the ford owned firm? the one ford hired to modify the six cylender duratech block to 12 cylenders? look at the specs, that 5.9L started life as two american motors.

jaguar isn't ford contaminated? Are you on something? i can go out under the hood of my X-Type and find 50 parts with the ford oval on them instantly. S-Type is no better. The old XJ and the XK are good british cars, i think the new XJ will be great, but it is ford influenced.

cosworth, the ford owned firm? the one ford hired to modify the six cylender duratech block to 12 cylenders? look at the specs, that 5.9L started life as two american motors.

jaguar isn't ford contaminated? Are you on something? i can go out under the hood of my X-Type and find 50 parts with the ford oval on them instantly. S-Type is no better. The old XJ and the XK are good british cars, i think the new XJ will be great, but it is ford influenced.

I thought Cosworth were owned by Audi? Well, it's not like every Aston gets two Ford engines welded together, is it? Someone mentioned it was a Duratech pair put together - the same duratech built in Britain?

Well, what I mean is that it might well be now, but as you can see with the new XJ, there are less and less Ford-sourced bits through every generation, which has to be a good thing. The question is, will they keep doing that or will the penny-pinchers at Ford start stuffing parts-bin engines and switchgear all over the next cars. I hope that won't be the case with the F-Type (so long as they build it, which is what I hear is being planned).

you're right, cosworth is owned by audi, they were once ford though. The block layout and head design approaches being identical to that of the american Ford Duratech V6. The duratech is also used by jaguar and euro ford. Ford uses jaguar sourced parts (engines), the X-Type has mondeo switchgear. I hope to hell it stays with jaguar stuff gets cheapened up and thrown into lincoln LS, instead of the other way around. I hear althogh the next generation of the Land Rover Discovery may be based on the ford explorer platform and will have a Ford 4.6L SOHC V8. That would be a travisty.

Land Rover Dicscovery on an Explorer platform? That would not fly well at all, at all. When you base a vehicle upon another in such a blatent way, people can see the truth a mile off. And foriegn cars ride on there image a great deal. If buyers got the impression that their Rover was just a spiffed up Explorer they would hit the exit.

you're right, cosworth is owned by audi, they were once ford though. The block layout and head design approaches being identical to that of the american Ford Duratech V6. The duratech is also used by jaguar and euro ford. Ford uses jaguar sourced parts (engines), the X-Type has mondeo switchgear. I hope to hell it stays with jaguar stuff gets cheapened up and thrown into lincoln LS, instead of the other way around. I hear althogh the next generation of the Land Rover Discovery may be based on the ford explorer platform and will have a Ford 4.6L SOHC V8. That would be a travisty.

That wouldn't work, because the Explorer is, well, rubbish. If they do that I can guarantee no one outside the U.S will buy one. If they do that it'll be another Brit company down the pan. :roll: Still, maybe if it gets bad enough they'll sell Land Rover, as BMW did with Rover for £10 (and now they are almost turning a profit, have a revised roadster, a Rover 75 voted best car in the world by the Italians, and a sports car with around 800 B.H.P). Two fingers to BMW, then...

About the engine design being similar, does it really matter? Underneath it all, all engines are basically the same. I hear though that the V12 production is being taken away from Cosworth and being given to the Ford factory in Germany. Well done, Ford... another master stroke by the pen pushers. :roll:

all engines are not the same by any means. There are good engine designs and ones that suck. Let's lay it out like this, Chrysler's 5.9L V8 sucks, it is inefficent, and after 40 years of tuning, no one has been able to get it to output decent power. BMW's 4.4L V8 on the other hand, or Jaguar's AJ-V8 are great engines, and there are numerous engineering differences between them to justify this, not just, well once is chrysler, the other is jaguar, there is a reason.

I just looked into production leaving cosworth, guess what else they make at that german ford factory? 3.0L Duratechs.

I just think they should have commissioned a clean sheet V12 designed, had jaguar make a new V12 for the job, it would be a great thing if they did that, it would be a british designed V12 that both aston and jag could use (jaguar needs a V12 back).

Ford is about sales numbers and profit. Explorer's platform is actually decent, it has 4 wheel indapendant suspension and handles very very well on road, and seemed like it had potential to be a good off road vehicle (with some suspenison changes) I just don't think it is Land Rover Material. My land rover is all about character, the old school V8, the solid beam axles out front and back, the odd driving dynamic, i like it. The killer would be them using the 16V or 32V Ford 4.6L Modular motor for it. That would be awful. I could stand them using a heavily modified explorer platform if they gave it maybe an AJ-V8 (then again AJ-V8 doesn't have the low end torque to be a viable truck motor).

I don't know. I am nervous to see what ford does.

The basic principle of engines is the same, as is the basic design.

It'd be good to see them develop their own engines, but as everything is about money now, it's unlikely to happen. They should do what T.V.R did, and design an engine that they can sell to other people. I don't believe all this crap about it costing too much; T.V.R have bespoke switchgear unlike anything you've ever seen before, and the engines are in-house too. All that, and for half the price of an Aston. At least the AMV8 looks promising enough. That's a stunning car! It almost beats the DB7 on looks, which is really saying something. It doesn't manage it, though. :lol:

When is Ford going to cut the crap with the 4.6 Modular V-8? That motor has no real get up and go, not low down in the rev band anyway, which is stupid for a V-8, and an American one at that. If it's so " modular " would 5.0 be asking too much? If you don't have a modern four valve setup, which they are only starting to use on the 4.6, your going to need good old fashioned cubic inches and/or forced-induction.

Ford chassis and running gear for a Range Rover is not too cool, but if Ford plopped an AJ-V8 into say they're Lincoln Aviator, that would be a nice touch that people would notice and appreciate. And they can't say it would be too expensive, that would be just beating around the bush. What's an Aviator go for, $40,000 or more? Yeah, they owe people more than worked over Explorer parts.

Ford has access to a lot of fine equipment that they use in Jaguars, and could be using in Lincolns. I don't mean to suggest that we need another crossover vehicle, but if Ford chose to build a Ceyanne/X5 style thing based on the X-Type and label it Lincoln, it could only be good news.

Hey, if they want to chop up an S-Class an call it lincoln LS, that's fine. X-Type is too good looking to have that happen to it. The 32V DOHC 4.6L that goes into Lincoln Aviator is the modular 4.6 block with SVT designed heads. It puts out 300hp (as opposed to 282 in the 3.9L AJ-V8 in lincoln LS) and has good low end. It is a very smooth and refined engine. The 4.6L 16V SOHC that explorer gets is pretty average, while smoother than some of the competition, it's not that great.

I'd just be upset if discovery turned into a brit branded aviator.

Archiviert

Dieses Thema ist archiviert und für weitere Antworten gesperrt. Erstelle doch dein eigenes Thema im passenden Forum.


×
×
  • Neu erstellen...