Regrets

[thepolarfoxqx]

the 4.0L doesn't have that much left in it without resorting to violent tuning. It's a rather antiqueated design, and even then it wasn't meant as a performance motor. It isn't THAT torquey. It makes the same 235ft/lbs as the 215hp 3.7L SOHC motor, just as low.

the 4.3L GM V6 is good for 260ft/lbs

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Hallo izzyloveslizzy,

 

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[LateNightCable]

The 4.0 liter Jeep motor is indeed a workhorse, and would be unlikely to find it's way into the engine bay of a Crossfire. It's true though, a six with four liters has a lot of power to give. Who gives a damn about an AMG V6?? A specially tuned 5.7 Hemi Magnum in there would be something else!

[thepolarfoxqx]

a special 5.7L Hemi would make it a real chrysler and a hell of a car. Tell me that wouldn't go toe to toe with corvette in every way? for 5 decades vette has stood uncontested as the greatest american sports car, this may just have what it takes.

[jterp]

Viper was crushing the vette in early 90's... c'mon you can't say a C4 corvette was any kind of engineering marvel...

A crossfire with a 5.7 would be a sweet combination... and it would run toe to toe with a vette if they tuned it to ... My only fear about that is that they would price it out of this world... a 35k crossfire SRT-8 or whatever would all of a sudden cost $75,000 ... American car companies always seem to ask ridiculous prices for the models that everyone wants... A viper for 50k would be a great buy-- The prowler would have been a sweet ride for 30k... The new SSR that chevy is building would sell like crazy if it were priced at 30k... but no one is going to pay 50 grand for a niche market pickup truck...

The vette is actually pretty reasonable starting at 45k -- if a 5.7L crossfire could compete with a vette on the track and on an invoice i think it would be a winner..

[thepolarfoxqx]

no, if they could put the hemi in it for 50k, it'd be set.

and in terms of being an overall sports car, you could drive a C4 every day of the year, and the same year viper didn't have windows.

viper was faster, but not that much. It has taken till the G3 viper to get it to be a generally usable mode of transportation.

[jterp]

i didnt realize you drove your sports cars in the snow.. Regardless of windows or not, the RWD and C4vette was not much of a year round performer... and it was underpowered and, to use a word you love to throw around "unrefined"

You are right about the crossfire though.. 50k for a 5.7 hemi crossfire and people would line up around the block to buy them...

[thepolarfoxqx]

ok, C4 vette was far more refined than G1 viper, at 330hp, it was not underpowered by any means, and for it's day, it was reasonably advanced

[jterp]

330 hp? Pass whatever you're smoking on over here.... The L-98 motor was 350 Ci -- 240 hp -- it came in all C4 corvette models except the zr-1. It ran 0-60 in 6.6 seconds and to the quarter mile in 15.0 seconds...Sounds pretty underpowered to me. Base price was $33k. The Zr-1 cost $65,000 in 1991 (read- 'more than a viper in 1991') and was slower than a viper in every test done by every magazine that year. But you couldn't put the windows up for those spirited rides through the snow and salt that we all love so much.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i think you need to pass what you are smoking. A number of the early nineties vettes had a 330HP LT1 and did 0-60 in 5.2. L98 was done in the eighties. The LT4 was used in the '95, also making 330hp. So what if the LT5 powered ZR1 was expensive, it was as fast as a viper, more refined, and less money.

[jterp]

for 5 decades vette has stood uncontested as the greatest american sports car,

300 hp Lt-1 motors were available from 1992-1996. C4 platform started in 1984. For 2/3 of its life, it had a 245 hp motor. When power was finally increased in the corvette, the platform couldn't handle it-- it cornered terribly (relatively) and had countless driveline problems (hence the rapid movement to the C5). A 1990 C4 cost $33,000. A 1990 mustang GT had 230hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque and cost $14,000 and handled just as well. A 1990 Z-28 camaro ($16,000) with a 305 motor (making 230 hp) ran to 60 in 6.8 seconds and through the quarter mile in 15.1 seconds --- just one tenth behind the corvette that was more than double its price. Not to mention, you could get the same L98 motor in a camaro in 1990 for less that $20,000!

If it really has been 5 decades that the corvette has dominated the american sports car market, we can't forget about the C3... In its final year of production, the C3 corvette with its 350ci motor made a whopping 200 hp and was available as an automatic ONLY! Doesn't sound very dominant.

I am not a crovette hater by any means -- i think the '65 convertible is one of the best looking cars ever made... and i think the C5 is one of the best cars on the market right now-- but corvette struggled through the '80's and nineties -- it lived and died by its namesake alone as it was very overpriced and very underpowered.

And a Zr1 is not faster than a viper at anything. Every car mag in the country did a comparo in 1991. Viper vs. Zr1 was hyped like Tyson vs. Holyfield... but every single test got the same results - Viper crushed it at everything.

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Hallo izzyloveslizzy,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema US Cars (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[jterp]

BTW in 1991 a viper base price was 57k. (read - faster and cheaper than a ZR1)

[thepolarfoxqx]

ALL cars struggled through that time of the eighties. Speaking of the eighties, where was dodge's sports car? I think it died. ZR1 was the first corvette to have driveline refinement to go toe to toe with any foreign adversary. That's important. They cornered just fine, and furthermore, again, VIPER had no windows, temperatures in the cabin could soar to over 40 degrees above ambient, the pedals were off center, and it's 8.0L V10 made a stunning what, 400hp? Wow, that is impressive, let me bow to it.

[jterp]

what the hell does "driveline refinement" mean? If you are talking about something specific could you please list that instead of making wild generalizations? ... generalization doesn't sound very credible.

I'll quote you again

"for 5 decades vette has stood uncontested as the greatest american sports car,"

This is the point that I am disputing-- I said nothing about Dodge of the 80's, -- I said the viper was faster than the fastest zo6 vette. I also said that in the 80's and 90's mustangs and camaros were on the the same performance tier as the corvette, and therefore were contesting its title of "greatest"...

and yes, i would expect you to bow to the viper's 450 hp, 490ft/lbs of torque -- it was the fastest thing on the road.

[LateNightCable]

The Viper and Corvette are rivals in a way, but one is a mass produced sportscar, and the other is a mostly hand built " exotic ". I don't think the Viper is within enough people's means to qualify as " America's sportscar ", more like " America's exotic ". Viper was meant to be exotic, because lets face it, 10 cylinders is not really neccesary, but it's cool.

I would still say though that the Corvette has deffinately been contested for greatest American sportscar. Aside from their respective recipes for performance, the crown comes down to raw stats, but mostly personal opinion. In fact, that would be a good pole. Greatest American Sportscar - Corvette or Viper? Lets' do it.

[thepolarfoxqx]

It never happened.

The Viper isn't driveable as an everyday car, corvette is. That alone makes a huge difference.

The Corvette is an enduring symbol, the longest continuously produced brand of car in the united states, my point about the 80s was that new emissions made performance harder, in fact, so much harder, Dodge didn't have a sports car the entire decade.

And you'd have to break my back before i'd bow to any rickety valvetrain p.o.s. like the 8.0 putting out a mighty 400hp originally, moving as high as 450, ooooh, wow. 50hp/l, sounds impessive, for a pickup truck.

[LateNightCable]

It never happened? Thats not what it said before you edited my post and yours on Wed, September 17, 2003 at 9:55 pm you little punk.

Keep your sticky fingers to yourself.

[jterp]

Again, who wants to drive their sports car in the snow? Since when would you want to drive your sports car every day of the year?

[thepolarfoxqx]

today it rained here. I drove my porsche without any difficulty, even at times aggressively.

I've been in a viper in rain before, it's hairy.

[jterp]

You weren;t going faast enough.

[thepolarfoxqx]

no, i was definately going plenty fast

[jterp]

If you go fast enough the wind flow over the windshield carries the water over the cockpit.... I drove a viper in the rain during a random las vegas summer shower and i didnt get wet.

Fox where'd your jag logo go? Today is the first day that I've had power to my house since hurricane isabel came through on thursday... I come back and everything is changed!

[thepolarfoxqx]

yeah, i suppose the jag logo should come back.

That's all convertibles though, if i go fast enough with the top down, i can all but avoid being at all wet, but the whole concept crumbles when you hit a stop light.