Information on the Viper please.

[makara]

the new E60 M5 will outrun the viper.

E60 M5? Is that the current one or the one or the one? If so, you are living in a dream. If not, you are basing this on speculation.

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[GIR]

An M5 will not outrun a viper. I see that you are from the Netherlands. I know that the euro vipers are way down on power compared to their American counterparts. Perhaps that is what you are comparing the M5 to.

Look this is turning into a is, is not competition, which is childish and I won't be part of. Just register an account and download the movie.

Viper's are officialy not available in the EU, all the Viper's in the EU have been imported from the US. Because of stricter emission and consumption regulations the car has to be detuned, but once it passes the checks you can place the old parts right back on it. It's one and the same car from the same productionline.

[thepolarfoxqx]

no, the current M5 is E39. Motor Trend ran an article about the E60 M5, stating it will have no fewer than 500hp and current 0-60 is 3.9 or better.

[SRT Mike]

What I laugh at is that you claim to be a racer but you don't know the first thing about automotive enginering. When it comes down to it you're no better then those ricer kids.

Well, my education is mechanical engineering and I've designed and builtup several of my cars, so why don't I have a go at you, mmmkay?

First of all any moron can drop a big engine into any car and make it go fast, the trick however is to do as much as possible with as little as possible. A 8 liter V10 pumping out a mere 500bhp and a topspeed of just 192mph is nothing to get excited about.

Totally wrong. I see guys at the track every weekend who "dropped big motors into their little cars". Usually, they don't run with Vipers. And if they do, it will be in a straight line. I've beaten guys with built up big blocks and drag slicks, and my car will also outhandle a Supra, M3, M5, Ferrari 360 or just about anything else. That isn't impressive to you? Sounds like you care more about bolstering your car than you care to know about facts. The trick is to do as much with as little as possible? Maybe in your mind. Too bad all the cars you seem to drool over are MUCH slower and can't handle in the same league as a Viper. But hey, at least YOU'RE impressed with them!

If you look at what BMW is doing with those tinny little engines, now that's impressive. Look what happens when BMW decides to produce a 6 liter V12, they make the worlds best, strongest and fastest engine now 10 years standing. After 10 years are others capable of an attempt to break this record. While the S73-2 is a normaly aspirated engine others need upto 4 turbo's to match it.

BMW is impressive? Too bad that super-efficient M3 engine has zero room for modification before it is dangerously close to blowing up. Actually a bunch of factory engines blew up too. The M3 is seriously lacking in torque and needs the piss revved out of it before it will move. You don't think Dodge is "capable" of doing that? What about the Neon? It has a high revving engine that has good hp/L figures - but who cares? You can talk about efficiency and "good engineering" all you like, but the bottom line is the Viper is WAY faster than any M3. My Yamaha R1 has a 150+HP from it's 1 liter engine. Why can't the M3 make 450hp from it's 3 liter engine? Guess the design must just be total crap, right?

There are even movies on the net of a M5 leaving Viper's in dust or a Supercharged M3 outrunning Lambo's and Ferrari's. You can view them on www.racingflix.com , you'll have to register an account. Unbelievable how many Viper movies they have, guess that's because the Viper is nothing but a production line car. Unfortunatly they're all with a Viper biting on the dust of some other car. The one with the Honda Civic Turbo vs. Viper, the Viper unable to outrun the Honda and the driver of the Viper saying: "That's one fast car!" is the funniest though. Or the one with Porsche 911 vs. Viper and the Porsche pulling 3 car lenghts on the Viper is nice aswell. Maybe the Toyoya Supra Turbo vs. Viper GTS with enriched fuel and the Viper GTS biting on dust will please you?

Let's just set the record straight. Stock vs. stock, an M3, an M5, a Supra Turbo, a Ferrari 355, 360, 550, 575M are NOT going to run with a Viper. It just won't happen. If you start modifying, well, Vipers are pretty capable there too. My friend spend $15k getting 775RWHP on his supercharged Viper. Turbo Vipers are making over 1,000hp. When you get to this level, traction becomes the problem. Are there any M3's making 1,000HP? How about 700HP? How about 650HP without forced induction? No? Wow, I guess those engines must just suck then, huh?

You think he should take the recommendation of a guy who thinks the M3 and M5 (stock for stock) can outrun the Viper? HA! Any other advice you want to dish out - maybe some hot stock tips we should check, or career advice you want to bestow?

So you really think if you took, say, a Chrysler Sebring and put fat tires on it and the Viper engine, it would be just as fast? Wow, I guess the euro-car makers have been missing out all these years. They have been doing serious design work and the Americans just tossed a big engine in a crappy car and blew them all away. What does that say about their engineering????

What are you talking about? The Viper is fast and power... actually alot faster and more powerful than a Ferrari 360. It also has exclusive looks, is expensive, and outhandles the Ferrari. But you say the Ferrari is a supercar and the Viper is not? Ummm... ok.

I've driven several 360's - you think the 360 has a "feeling of power" that the Viper does not? LOL Ok, sure. By your definition then, the Viper must be out-of-this-world powerful. What the 360 has that the Viper does not, is a precise handling feel. But hey, do you want a car that feels fast or that IS fast. The Viper feels fast too - but it also IS fast.

I think you ought to stop reading magazines and get some real world experience. You quoted just about every ricer-argument I've ever heard. What kind of car do you drive anyways? I have 2 2002 BMW 325's in the driveway, recently had a 98 GTS, have a turbo Corvette and I've owned a bunch of sports cars in the past, including an M3, Camaros, RX7's, a 300ZX, and others. Each car should be judged on it's own merits, and your verbal diarrhea adds nothing to the thread. All you've proven is that you own a small displacement foreign car (or wish you did), and you're insecure about it. Please give us something more than that, because this thread is getting old.

[thepolarfoxqx]

is it just me, or is everyone that supports the viper really arrogant?

Alright, since you seem to think that BMW's ///M engines have no room left to tune, let's see what steve dinan's point of view on the concept is.

He took the 394hp 4.9L V8, reworked exhaust, intake, changed up valvetiming, fuel and ingnition settings on this already maxed out, threatening to explode at any given moment engine, and pulled 470hp out of the 4.9L Naturally aspirated V8, redline is at 7,300 - 70% of peak torque available at idle, and it still carries the 60,000 mile BMW factory warrantee. BMW must be loosing huge money seeing as that engine has have exploded, say 7 or 8 times by 60,000 miles.

He got to 95hp/l without revving it that hard, perfectly safely. That impresses me.

Did I mention that with a 4,000lb sedan to haul, his engine hauled the M5 to 60 in 4.08. That does, by the way beat the RT10, ties the G2 GTS.

This is a sedan by the way, a big one. It also has a longer warrantee. I call that some pretty nice engineering, shaving close to a seccond off the zero-sixty of a car with no room to tune left - without any forced aspiration..

And an M5 is driveable day in day out, bad weather, bad roads, heavy traffic, any weather, it is every bit as liveable and comfortable as an any comperable sport sedan. The Viper would be unpleasant at best as a daily driver.

But i guess that is the penalty of dropping a huge engine into a car that saw little refinement. It may go fast, but that is about all it has.

If you want to tell me that a viper will run circles on the track around a 575M, 360, and a 911 TT, I should bring something up, motor trend did a 3 way track comparo of Z06, Cobra R, and Viper a year back. The cobra R was fastest around the track, the Z06 was a hair behind it, the viper was somewhat distantly 3rd.

Viper may be very fast in a straight line, but every test i've seen where it is on a track puts it's times slower than those of Cobra Rs, 360s, and 911TTs.

[GIR]

Well, my education is mechanical engineering and I've designed and builtup several of my cars, so why don't I have a go at you, mmmkay?

Lets not get into the I'm smarter then you or I'm more educated then you fight, okay? When it comes down to it I'm sure I can beat you when it comes to education level or experience. I just hate when arrogant people like you have to act all fancy just because they have some paper in their hand.

Totally wrong. I see guys at the track every weekend who "dropped big motors into their little cars". Usually, they don't run with Vipers. And if they do, it will be in a straight line. I've beaten guys with built up big blocks and drag slicks, and my car will also outhandle a Supra, M3, M5, Ferrari 360 or just about anything else. That isn't impressive to you? Sounds like you care more about bolstering your car than you care to know about facts. The trick is to do as much with as little as possible? Maybe in your mind. Too bad all the cars you seem to drool over are MUCH slower and can't handle in the same league as a Viper. But hey, at least YOU'RE impressed with them!

Or so you say. Everything you say and everything I've seen just don't match. I'd rather believe my own eyes and my knowledge then what you are saying. Just like your friend Makara or what ever his name was, it's all talk but coming from your mind. You talk about facts, facts which are yours. Somehow you have this implanted into your mind, I wonder... Are you just trying to make up for the fact that your car just isn't the fastest car on the planet even though it has a big engine?

BMW is impressive? Too bad that super-efficient M3 engine has zero room for modification before it is dangerously close to blowing up. Actually a bunch of factory engines blew up too. The M3 is seriously lacking in torque and needs the piss revved out of it before it will move. You don't think Dodge is "capable" of doing that? What about the Neon? It has a high revving engine that has good hp/L figures - but who cares? You can talk about efficiency and "good engineering" all you like, but the bottom line is the Viper is WAY faster than any M3. My Yamaha R1 has a 150+HP from it's 1 liter engine. Why can't the M3 make 450hp from it's 3 liter engine? Guess the design must just be total crap, right?

Uuuh what? The M3 has 0 room for mods? Now you are really talking out your arse. First of all have you ever heard of Dinan? You know the guyz who can squeeze even more BHP out a BMW without voiding the waranty. And eventhough you might claim otherwise, the Viper is not faster. With the speedlimiter off M5 have been clocked onto 330km/h while the Viper ends at 300km/h. When it comes to launch the Viper will have a little head start but the M5 will make up for it when it comes to building up speed.

You claim to have a degree in mechanical engineering and you want me to explain to you why a Motorcycle has more BHP then a car?! You know I'm not even going to, you figure out why a motorcycle has more HP then a car, mister I have a degree. Idiot!

Let's just set the record straight. Stock vs. stock, an M3, an M5, a Supra Turbo, a Ferrari 355, 360, 550, 575M are NOT going to run with a Viper. It just won't happen. If you start modifying, well, Vipers are pretty capable there too. My friend spend $15k getting 775RWHP on his supercharged Viper. Turbo Vipers are making over 1,000hp. When you get to this level, traction becomes the problem. Are there any M3's making 1,000HP? How about 700HP? How about 650HP without forced induction? No? Wow, I guess those engines must just suck then, huh?

Actually there is a BMW engine which can do 1000bhp, the S70/2. It's in the McLaren F1 and BMW claims they could get a clean BMW style 1000bhp from that engine if needed. And you know what, it's normally aspirated, no turbo and no supercharger. I wonder what would happen when you charge that engine.

You think he should take the recommendation of a guy who thinks the M3 and M5 (stock for stock) can outrun the Viper? HA! Any other advice you want to dish out - maybe some hot stock tips we should check, or career advice you want to bestow?

Actually I never said the M3 stock could outrun the Viper. The M5 can however, reading is so hard todo.

So you really think if you took, say, a Chrysler Sebring and put fat tires on it and the Viper engine, it would be just as fast? Wow, I guess the euro-car makers have been missing out all these years. They have been doing serious design work and the Americans just tossed a big engine in a crappy car and blew them all away. What does that say about their engineering????

It sais enough about their engineering. It sais they are smart enough to build engine's which are more effiecient and cars that or driveable every day no matter what condition. And ofcourse you are still the only one claiming that the Viper is faster then a McLaren F1.

What are you talking about? The Viper is fast and power... actually alot faster and more powerful than a Ferrari 360. It also has exclusive looks, is expensive, and outhandles the Ferrari. But you say the Ferrari is a supercar and the Viper is not? Ummm... ok.

Again you are the only one claiming this. WHy not provide us with some video or some sort which actually shows us that the Viper is faster then a F360. I think racing on the track against ricers has gotten to your head.

I've driven several 360's - you think the 360 has a "feeling of power" that the Viper does not? LOL Ok, sure. By your definition then, the Viper must be out-of-this-world powerful. What the 360 has that the Viper does not, is a precise handling feel. But hey, do you want a car that feels fast or that IS fast. The Viper feels fast too - but it also IS fast.

Ofcourse the Viper is fast, it has to be, with an engine that big. Wrong! AGain you say so but everythign I've seen so far proves other wise. Why not pull out your cam and race against a F360.

I think you ought to stop reading magazines and get some real world experience. You quoted just about every ricer-argument I've ever heard. What kind of car do you drive anyways? I have 2 2002 BMW 325's in the driveway, recently had a 98 GTS, have a turbo Corvette and I've owned a bunch of sports cars in the past, including an M3, Camaros, RX7's, a 300ZX, and others. Each car should be judged on it's own merits, and your verbal diarrhea adds nothing to the thread. All you've proven is that you own a small displacement foreign car (or wish you did), and you're insecure about it. Please give us something more than that, because this thread is getting old.

Yawn... you know just like the comment about your education, I just don't believe any word you are saying. First of all you don't know why a motorcycle can have more BHP, HP a useless figure is there ever was one. A laughable question if there ever was one, talk about diarhea. Ofcourse not to forget about you claming that you claim a F360 has precise steering but you still claim you can outhandle the F360 in a Viper. I put my money on you being no older then 16 and have never even touched one of those cars.

Anywayz if you must know so recently I crashed my S500 and now I'm holding out to see what the German industry comes up with.

And oh yeah that degree, you don't have it. Forget about it, this is the internet, nobody is believing you anywayz.

[thepolarfoxqx]

right on.

when it comes down to it, whatever sheet of paper from here or there with my name on doesn't matter, it is what I know and my capacity to reason that makes my merit. That is true with everyone on here.

I'll give it to GIR, guy knows his stuff, i only minored in mech E.

It comes down to this, the international press, american and otherwise has criticized the viper and its lack of regaurd for the fact that a human being has to survive being in it to drive it - and its general lack of any refinement since it came out. It is a crude and huge engine dropped into a run of the mill chasis with potential that dodge neglected to capitalize on.

If the refined it the way GM has done with corvette, made a tuned machine instead of a hack sports car, then they could really have something.

But right now they don't.

They may have fixed some of the functionality issues in the G3 Viper, but now it bears and odd resemblance to a new Camry. I'm sorry, I don't care what it does, if it looks like a camry, i'm not driving it.

Wanna tell me i'm on crack? The same man who designed the current camry and corrolla was hired away from toyota by dodge to design the new viper.

That explain the resemblance?

[LateNightCable]

Makara, you need to quite the attitude you arrogant prick, I for one am tired of seeing your arrogant posts.

Everyone here loves cars, and many are knowlagable, so stop acting like you have something to teach everybody. Thanx

[makara]

Makara, you need to quite the attitude you arrogant prick, I for one am tired of seeing your arrogant posts.

Everyone here loves cars, and many are knowlagable, so stop acting like you have something to teach everybody. Thanx

Arrogant because I correct information that is posted on multiple threads that is totally incorrect? Would you rather read BS or the truth? GIR and Polar might know cars, but from what they have posted, don't know the first thing about vipers yet they love to post how inferior they are. Really, it shouldn't bother me, I just hate seeing BS spewed. I quit responding to the inaccuracies in their posts this weekend because these people obviasly have some sort of axe to grid with the car and do not want to hear the truth. They don't have to like the viper, it wasn't made for everyone, but posting absolute BS about the car to justify their hatred of the car is annoying.

Thanx

[thepolarfoxqx]

you also say it easily beats a 360 modena around the track. How many ways can I say that is blatently false? Unless this track is a straight line, I just don't forsee that.

There is a reason GIR, myself, and a number of others don't like the Viper. It is unrefined, poorly engineered, not stable in handling. It makes a bad name for american cars.

I'll give it to you, it is damn fast, but it should be faster. I fundamentally disagree with how it was designed simple as that.

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[cmill]

Poorly refined or not, wether or not you like the viper it will rip a 360 on a track any day. Poor handling, how do you figure!!! The car is more than able to pull 1g on a skid pad...ie high level of grip!!

[GIR]

Poorly refined or not, wether or not you like the viper it will rip a 360 on a track any day. Poor handling, how do you figure!!! The car is more than able to pull 1g on a skid pad...ie high level of grip!!

And how does that say something about the handeling?

[GIR]

Arrogant because I correct information that is posted on multiple threads that is totally incorrect? Would you rather read BS or the truth? GIR and Polar might know cars, but from what they have posted, don't know the first thing about vipers yet they love to post how inferior they are. Really, it shouldn't bother me, I just hate seeing BS spewed. I quit responding to the inaccuracies in their posts this weekend because these people obviasly have some sort of axe to grid with the car and do not want to hear the truth. They don't have to like the viper, it wasn't made for everyone, but posting absolute BS about the car to justify their hatred of the car is annoying.

Thanx

You might say that, or you might say that you are the one who is not willing to face the truth. You own a Viper, use it to dragrace ricer kids and claim that it's the fastest car in the world, yeah sure!

Liek I said many times before you are no better then ricers. Ricers think stickers make their car go faster while you think a bigger engine makes your car go faster. I just hope that one day you will wake up from your illusion.

[makara]

you also say it easily beats a 360 modena around the track. How many ways can I say that is blatently false? Unless this track is a straight line, I just don't forsee that.

Where did I say the viper would beat a modena around a track? I have heard from many people that a viper would beat a modena, but having no personal experience with both a modena and a viper on the same track, I won't jump to assumptions.

[makara]

You might say that, or you might say that you are the one who is not willing to face the truth. You own a Viper, use it to dragrace ricer kids and claim that it's the fastest car in the world, yeah sure!

Liek I said many times before you are no better then ricers. Ricers think stickers make their car go faster while you think a bigger engine makes your car go faster. I just hope that one day you will wake up from your illusion.

You and Polar amaze me. Where did I say that the viper was the fastest car in the world? How do you know what I do with my viper? Drag race ricers? Ha. You know nothing about me and based on you and polar's posts, know nothing of the viper, yet feel the need to bash it with what is mostly inaccurate information. I offered information that was correct yet am being bashed and said to be on the level of ricers. Polar has claimed (among other inaccuracies):

- that the viper runs out of steam above 4500 RPM (we all know that the hp peak is well above that)

- vipers were first available with sliding windows (wrong again)

- vipers have a shorter warrently than a BMW which I beleive had a 7 year 60,000 mile warrently (my last viper came with a 7 year 70,000 warrenty)

Believe what you want, obviasly you will.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i believe it was said by SRTMike that Viper easily outclassed 360s.

someone said it outclassed 360s and 575Ms on the track. As i said, sure, If its a G3 viper and a straight track, I'll give that one to you.

[GIR]

You and Polar amaze me. Where did I say that the viper was the fastest car in the world? How do you know what I do with my viper? Drag race ricers? Ha. You know nothing about me and based on you and polar's posts, know nothing of the viper, yet feel the need to bash it with what is mostly inaccurate information. I offered information that was correct yet am being bashed and said to be on the level of ricers. Polar has claimed (among other inaccuracies):

- that the viper runs out of steam above 4500 RPM (we all know that the hp peak is well above that)

- vipers were first available with sliding windows (wrong again)

- vipers have a shorter warrently than a BMW which I beleive had a 7 year 60,000 mile warrently (my last viper came with a 7 year 70,000 warrenty)

Believe what you want, obviasly you will.

You might deny it but it's obvious from your posts. You got arrogant from racing against inferior cars and now think the Viper is unbeatable.

First off all your information comes from souly driving this car and looking at the big engine. If you'd ever had driven another car or could look further then the big engine I'm sure you would see it our way, instead you are still stuck in the old way of car building, it's like you're stuck in first gear while we have moved onto 5th.

I don't know where you got your information from but over here all BMW's have 10 year 200.000 KM (that's 125.000 mile) waranty on engine, paint and bodywork. Over here doing 12.000 KM a year is very normal.

I looked it up for you and the 1st gen Viper did run out of steam above 4500rpm. It wasn't untill 1997 untill they started to crank it up.

The 1997 Viper was also the first one that had an option for sliding windows.

[makara]

You are just making stuff up now. For the record, I have raced many ZO6s, 911 turbo, lotus Esprit V-8...

yeahhhhhhh. You know nothing about what cars I have driven. Another made up conclusion? I'm so suprised.

I beleive it was your good buddy Polar who posted the warrenty info.

The first gen pulled hard above 4500. Once I did exhaust work on it it really livened up, but that's modded and we aren't talking modded cars here, are we? If you need to go back to the first generation viper to talk about running out of steam and ignore the generation two and generation three cars, then I believe that is really stretching. Besides, from what Polar says, he drove a Generation two car.

Nope. In 1996, the GTS came out and had regular windows.

[thepolarfoxqx]

and do you beat 911 turbos? Unless they are being driven by trained apes, you shouldn't.

Dodge just started their 7 year 70,000 mile warrantee this year. It also has a deductable on it.

BMW has offered their 48,000/5 warrantee for years. No deductable, something fails, just take it in. they will clean the car and top it off with gas as well (or so has been my experience i have taken it for warrantee service, it seems the standard, my jaguar, my rover, my porsche, when I had my audi, they all fixed an problems free (no deductable) and cleaned my car and filled it with gas.

I have owned american cars before, and have found the dealer service less of a pleasure and more of a pain in the ass. When I had my jeep, I found the dealer so incredibly awful (wait time, lack of interest in giving me a loaner, returning a dirty car, hasling me about warrantee repairs) that i just starting fixing things that failed myself because it was easier than the dealer.

Dinan aftermarket tuning products are fully BMW warranteed, no such line exists for chrysler cars like viper.

Viper's engine is direcly derrived from the chrysler 8.0L truck V10. That engine is the chrysler 360 V8 with two cylenders added (and 1 fewer main bearing). The 360 dates back to the early 60s, and has yet to see a major change.

The engine in the viper is of an archetecture dating back decades.

That is just sad.

Starting next year, you will be able to go buy an M5 for the same price as a viper which will have equal performance numbers, better gas mileage, seating for 5, luxury accomdations, and quality engineering.

Admit the engineering on viper is seccond rate.

[makara]

and do you beat 911 turbos? Unless they are being driven by trained apes, you shouldn't.

Yes, I beat the turbo. I've driven the 911 turbo back to back with my viper and there was no question which car was faster. The owner of the turbo brought it up. The 911 is a great car, I'm not going to rag on it. I like my car more, I feel that it is more pleasurable to drive. If I only had one car, the 911 would no doubt be a better choice, but driving please is what I am concerned with, not which car would be a better day to day daily driver. I own the viper to have fun with and it does the job very well.

Dodge just started their 7 year 70,000 mile warrantee this year. It also has a deductable on it.

BMW has offered their 48,000/5 warrantee for years. No deductable, something fails, just take it in. they will clean the car and top it off with gas as well (or so has been my experience i have taken it for warrantee service, it seems the standard, my jaguar, my rover, my porsche, when I had my audi, they all fixed an problems free (no deductable) and cleaned my car and filled it with gas.

Who cares when they started it? When I take my viper in for it's free oil changes, they also give my car back freshly washed.

I have owned american cars before, and have found the dealer service less of a pleasure and more of a pain in the ass. When I had my jeep, I found the dealer so incredibly awful (wait time, lack of interest in giving me a loaner, returning a dirty car, hasling me about warrantee repairs) that i just starting fixing things that failed myself because it was easier than the dealer.

Dinan aftermarket tuning products are fully BMW warranteed, no such line exists for chrysler cars like viper.

I have heard of people keeping their vipers under warrenty with the Roe supercharger. I belive that MOPAR also has some performace upgrades for the viper that do not change the warrenty.

[thepolarfoxqx]

I remember a saying from when I was little "MOPAR, Slowcar, Never be a racecar", making fun fun of the fact that dodge blocks aren't used in Nascars. Just remembered that when you bring up mopar.

I get free standard maintainance too. Doesn't change the fact there is a deductable on your warrantee.

You took a 911 Turbo huh? I've dug into my car mags to find test results for both the cars. Both 0-60 in 3.9. The 911 Turbo is faster to 120, so I am not exactly seeing how you beat one. If you look at it, a 911 turbo not only has more horsepower per pound, but also has AWD which gaurantees a solid launch, as well as a kansas flat torque curve that doesn't run out of steam until damn near 7,000rpms.

So you buy a viper to have fun on those "just so" designated fun times. Why not just get a 911 turbo as a daily driver and have fun all the time? Makes sense to me.

Heck, 911 turbo is even solid in bad weather, you could go out and have fun in your 911 on a snowy day!

I'm pretty sure that when you install a Roe S/C, you get a warrantee from Roe, not from dodge.

Mopar's line of aftermarket performance parts is sad next to dinan.

[makara]

I remember a saying from when I was little "MOPAR, Slowcar, Never be a racecar", making fun fun of the fact that dodge blocks aren't used in Nascars. Just remembered that when you bring up mopar.

I get free standard maintainance too. Doesn't change the fact there is a deductable on your warrantee.

You took a 911 Turbo huh? I've dug into my car mags to find test results for both the cars. Both 0-60 in 3.9. The 911 Turbo is faster to 120, so I am not exactly seeing how you beat one. If you look at it, a 911 turbo not only has more horsepower per pound, but also has AWD which gaurantees a solid launch, as well as a kansas flat torque curve that doesn't run out of steam until damn near 7,000rpms.

So you buy a viper to have fun on those "just so" designated fun times. Why not just get a 911 turbo as a daily driver and have fun all the time? Makes sense to me.

Heck, 911 turbo is even solid in bad weather, you could go out and have fun in your 911 on a snowy day!

I'm pretty sure that when you install a Roe S/C, you get a warrantee from Roe, not from dodge.

Mopar's line of aftermarket performance parts is sad next to dinan.

I had a lot less fun in the 911 turbo than I do with the viper. I have more than one car, I don't need one car to do everything. If I remember correctly, the viper weighs less and has more power than the 911 turbo. On street tires, the 911 turbo will take the viper off the line due to AWD, but parasitic drag does help at the other end of the track. SRT Mike has taken his GTS, bone stock, down the quarter mile in 11.6. Not bad.

As for the Roe warrentee. It's not a standard deal to have it covered under factory warrentee, but I have read posts from guys who had the dealer install the blower, then honor the factory warrentee. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

[LateNightCable]

To Makara,

You can think and say what you like about your Viper freely in the forum ( everyone else too ) , but there is no need for a cocky and defensive attitude to the point where you imply that other's intelligence is not up to par with your ego.

It's one thing to hold the Viper in high esteem, but jeez, take it for what it is for the most part, a dragster. That car was made for flat out runs, it's track success never had a whole lot to do with handling. Can you really say that it would accomplish the same with the same handling, but with 100 - 150 less h.p. and 100 less pounds of torque? I like the Viper too, but I know that it is not a very fundamentally balanced car, it's fast, but it is what it is.

[makara]

To Makara,

You can think and say what you like about your Viper freely in the forum ( everyone else too ) , but there is no need for a cocky and defensive attitude to the point where you imply that other's intelligence is not up to par with your ego.

It's one thing to hold the Viper in high esteem, but jeez, take it for what it is for the most part, a dragster. That car was made for flat out runs, it's track success never had a whole lot to do with handling. Can you really say that it would accomplish the same with the same handling, but with 100 - 150 less h.p. and 100 less pounds of torque? I like the Viper too, but I know that it is not a very fundamentally balanced car, it's fast, but it is what it is.

I originally posted to clear up inaccuracies posted about the viper. Somehow, it the thread turned into a BMW vs. Viper debate. Dragsters are not made with independent rear suspension. There is a lot of false information going around about the viper. I get asked rather often if my car has the 10 or the 12 cylinder engine. When I say it has a 10, they ask why I didn't get the 12. I get asked why my car has speakers on the hood. I get asked why I got an auto transmission (vipers don't even come with an auto) I have met a person who claims that his uncle owned a 1992 GTS. People have so much wrong about the car because they base their "facts" on assumptions and wrong information that other people have said. I you would rather I not try to set the facts straight in a thread asking about vipers, than I will let two people who's experience with the cars is minimal at best continue to spread incorrect information.

[thepolarfoxqx]

no one here is claming a 1992 GTS, we all no there is no V12 viper, no autobox (it has only ever come with a Tremec T56), you tell me I did not see a viper with sliding windows on the dealer lot? I'll tell you I was at barbara's dogeland in roxboro, pennsylvania in early 1995 looking at the viper, all of the ones I looked at had sliding windows. Maybe barbara elected to equip the ones he sold with those, I don't know, I know what I saw.

And a dragster with an indapendant rear suspension? What, like an IRS some mystical new technology reserved for only best handling cars, or that a beam rear axle is only for dragsters? No. Everything barring a mustang and crown vic (or a truck) nowadays rides on IRS. Even the 2005 mustang GT is slated for IRS, leaving only the V6 stang riding on the beam.

SRTMike should be an NHRA driver if he is getting his down the 1320 in 11.6, becuase on the coldes day of the year, at sea level, the best driver has trouble pushing the 450hp GTS into 11s at all. 11.6 just going out in a stock viper, I doubt.

A viper is more fun than a 911? I don't see how you figure that, if by fun you mean that it is louder, shakes more, rides rougher, and vibrates on idle, then sure. The all around grip of the 911 in any situation makes it pretty fun in my book, the fact that the 911 feels completely calm, cool, and collected no matter what, nothing shakes it up. The heavy rear weight bias even keeps the car totally level in the heaviest braking (I remember from when I drove the viper, it has violently strong brakes, but it also has a tendancy to nosedive when you stand on them). The 911 is a car that is easily driven hard. Around town it is just begging to badassed around, and it is stable enough you can do it. The viper just isn't as stable handling of a car to feel comfortable pushing it hard anywhere but the track.

I have a whole bunch of cars too, but I don't want to have to haul my ass home to switch rides every time driving mood changes. Say I pull up to some jerk in a camaro revving his engine at me when I'm in the jag, my X-type is slower than a Z28, so I'm SOL, but if I had the Boxster S, I could have shut him down. I own 2 cars, one is for winter, the other for summer. I don't have one for when I want to go fast, one for when I want a decent ride, one for when i need to haul crap around.

actually, the 4 seat, all wheel drive, more cargo spaced 911 Turbo weighs in at exactly the same weight as a viper. Go figure. What' more, it is faster, it gets better gas mileage, and does so with all of like 43% the displacement. I guess the disadvantage of that huge engine they shove into viper is that is darn heavy, because the viper really should weight less.

And if you are reffering to the parasitic drag off the all wheel drive, don't. The difference in gearbox efficiency alone between the two should easily make up for it. Keep in mind, the turbocharged variable valve timed porsche has a much flatter torque curve, which helps in acceleration.

The G2 Viper got beaten over the head by 911 turbo, the current one comes a lot closer. I Just can't help but feel when porsche drops their twin turbo 4.5L V8 into 911, it will be untouchable.

Better yet, the naturally aspirated 3.6L 380hp GT3, cheaper than the turbo, a good 300lbs lighter than the viper, equal to 60 and 100, hanlding numbers are on par, it is naturally aspirated, rear wheel drive, and 3.6L. No excuses now.

Oh, and since I am SOOOOO ignorant.

1992 RT/10: HP Peak: 4,600rpms, torque peak: 3,600

1996 GTS: HP Peak: 5,200rpms, torque peak: 3,700, 98% of hp available at 4,750rpms

but apparently this engine is just coming alive at 5 grand right?