Audi, BMW or Mercedes.

[imported_fao]

Which one will you choose?

Which one do you think is more funny to drive?

Who has more tech. advances?

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Hallo imported_fao,

 

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[GIR]

Merc for durability, quality and luxury. Maybe not as powerfull as a bimmer but you can't have it all.

[thepolarfoxqx]

Well, it goes like this

No one outsports BMW. Period.

Audi has the highest build quality and nicest interiors

Mercedes Has the build construction and interesting features

I Give it to BMW, Just because their durability and luxury is top notch, and they are the sportiest. They may not have the quality of wood audi does, or the electronic gizmo like in a merc. - but you really don't notice - when your driving.

[Mihai]

i would choose audi, because of their interiors and sometimes their driving feeling.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Audi for looks. Merc for overall (they're swinigin' every-which-way), and BMW for sportiness and driving excitement/fun.

But BMW takes 1st. They're engines are top-notch. No one makes cars as efficient and economically attractive as BMW. Period.

[imported_fao]

I think for quality BMW is the best. Then Audi and at the end Mercedes (thanx to Chrysler fussion).

In technological advances the 1st place is between Mercedes and Beamers, and audi always copy the innovations from his competitors. (except quattro)

Funniest to drive? Of course Beamers are the best, then mercedes and at the end audi (quattro models are funny the 1st miles, and if it is a front wheel, a vw is cheaper). Quattro are more stable than rear wheel, but when you touch the limit, say bye bye to the car. With the beamer or merc you can play with the steering wheel.

[izzyloveslizzy]

???????? You’re putting Mercedes-Benz at the end of the list? How could you??!?? I honestly can’t put any of them at the end of the list. I think one of them (maybe BMW) is overall numero uno, and the other two are tied for 2nd. Or, they’re all tied for first. They are all so mouth-wateringly German-engineered and full of autorific goodness, I just can’t put any of them behind the other two. I think you’re right on the technological advancement scale though, because BMW and Merc’s technology rating is through the roof, while Audi is very close behind. And you can't exactly "play" with the steering wheel on a Merc. or Beemer the way you put it, but they do handle very well at near top speeds. For all three cars there's normally very little near-top-speed engine lag, and less understeer than you would find in other non-German cars.

[thepolarfoxqx]

mercedes has suffered many quality control issues since moving some production facilities to north america - and merging with chrysler. Their cars simply don't have the bavarian handling of an audi or bmw. They are great cars, and I love them, but after driving a BMW or Audi, sometimes a mercedes just doesn't feel light on its feet. They are luxurious, but audi makes a better interior, and has more interesting styling, they do have nice innovations, but bimmer seems to be right with them (i-drive?), so I think its fair.

I'd be proud to own any of them. I'd have the most fun in a bmw.

[GIR]

I'm not sure about that i-drive thingy. I mean a big knob in the center which controls everything. The manual that comes with it is huge. I'm affraid that you need to memorize lots of settings, the last thing you want todo on the road is pull out a manual to look up some setting. Altho I (i guess nobody) have never tried one so just wait and see.

Also I thougth european mercs were still produced in germany, except the M class.

[izzyloveslizzy]

The iDrive tech isn't exactly very revised, so you'll need a to wait on that a bit. And I can honestly tell you you might not like iDrive. I personally like the abundance of buttons, though with 106 buttons maybe sometimes driving becomes 2nd in priority. Don't know whether to love or loathe iDrive? Try it out. But chances are you won't exactly love it in it's first iteration. The 760iL's iDrive was pretty good for new technology but it needs amy improvements according to the reviews I've read. This one may need a bit more time.

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Hallo imported_fao,

 

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[thepolarfoxqx]

the new 760 revision of I-Drive isn't half as hard as people say. I had it down by the end of the test drive. Once you get the hang, it is much easier than having to dig through a bunch of buttons, read small symbols, and have to try 3 times before your finger finds the right one.

[izzyloveslizzy]

So you've driven the new 7 then? Good, maybe you could give me your personal review of iDrive. I'd much appreciate it. Also, I know the iDrive tech is new and innovative and probably helpful, but I said I like the large number of buttons being everywhere because it gives me the feeling of being in control of this beast of a manly machine, and kind'a future-techy like a UFO control panel. Hehe!

[thepolarfoxqx]

working i-drive is like working a pda. No more difficult than my palm pilot. It isn't the most logical thing on earth, but once you use it a bit, it really isn't hard. Once you get used to it, it is much easier than dealing with tons of buttons. Even if it were lousy, the 7 series' driveline and handling (which consists of 0 body roll) would compensate.

I-Drive is a good system. It needs a bit of fine tuning maybe, but once people get used to it, it is superior.

[imported_fao]

I like it but I prefer the buttons, they seem better than a joystick, it is a good innovation that is oriented for American market, i have read an article where the europeans prefer the buttons, but in the other side Americans give an excellent for this new device. Another thing that I didnt like on the 745 is that horrible knob (the one used to choose gears) that comes out from the dash.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i don't like the pickup truck style shifter either. I'd love to see somewhere more innovative (like thumb mounted buttons on the steering wheel maybe) or even in the traditonal center console mount, but I am not a fan of the shifter on the tree.

The joystick isn't bad. I would really rather a bit more indapendant control, but I-Drive certainly works.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Actually, fao, most of the American reviews of i-Drive I've read only trashed i-Drive and belittled BMW for it. They didn't seem to like it at all. The good and positive reviews seem to be more rare. Anywho, I think I'd prefer to have both the i-Drive AND the buttons. Kind of like a choice between the two, ready for whichever I might feel like using. Though I admit it would be costlier.

I personally don't see any companies doing as many innovative things at once. BMW seems to be the leaders in innovation and technology, and most everything else. And they do a damn fine job too. But as usual they are only hated for it in the end, by the majority. As the saying goes, you're danmed if you do, and damned if you don't. BMW will always be my favorite, and all the German companies follow BMW on the list. But god forbid should the British and the Americans (and also the French) ever acknowledge the good works Germans do. American auto makers only try to trash BMW because they know that even if they can find one area where they can get the upper hand on BMW, they can't compete with them on every level (especially GM divisions, although Ford and it's divisions do it too). Also, the French seem to be trying to take shots at BMW and other Germans as well, because they just can't relistically compete with the insane economic and marketing muscle of the Germans, but they want to survive. Of course that's much better than the British, who hate Germans and whine about Germany all the time, even though they two-facedly buy and enjoy German products because they know they will never do better themselves. To top it off, their auto industry only barely survives going flat-line, BECAUSE of companies like BMW and VW (and American companies). But heaven forbid should they ever give any credit to Germany. All they did was whine about why Rolls Royce and Bentley were bought by BMW and VW, respectively. But in the meantime they're loving the fact that Rolls Royce and Bentley and other German-owned Brit companies finally have good backing and direction, and that they are doing well again and will survive. In short, don't expect BMW to very serisouly consider going ahead with development of i-Drive 3, if i-Drive 2 receives the same whingey reviews and responses as i-drive 1.

[thepolarfoxqx]

everyone know the trip and diagnostics computer, found in nearly all new cars. The one who has a little screen to alert you to problems, tell you your gas mileage, etc. etc., when Bimmer introduced their advanced trip computer in the 80s, it got blasted by everyone. Now you can find it in everything, it has even become a standard feature in GM cars. That says something.

My 2003 Land Rover Discovery i think will be the best year of the car made. It shows all of the improvements bmw made during their ownership. On the other hand, half the things under the hood of my X type say ford. The engine is a refined duratech. it is a great engine, but i really don't need to see anything labeled with the blue oval under the hood of my jag.

The germans do build fantastic cars, but give the brits their due, when it comes to elegance, class, and interiors, they set the standard. Jaguars look good decades after they were built, they never go out of style. BMW styling may be futuristic and lasting, mercedes may be classic, but jaguar styling - atleast to me - approaches timeless.

Engineering wise although, I must say, the germans are clearly the leaders.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Amen. The Birts may approach timeless with their addition of "class" to everything, but the Germans definitely approach infinity in engineering and innovation. They're clearly some of the smartest people on the planet (OK, maybe that's favoring Germany a little too much, but that's because I'm racially similar to them; nevermind everyone, just ignore this!). Anywho, go BMW!!!!

[thepolarfoxqx]

well I come from a long line of Bavarian Americans. germany is about the only country we hold in high reguard (well, ireland gets respect too). We think bavarians are gods gift to man. I still think the english put more soul, character, and class, as well as some great engineering into their cars. The germans have the best engineering, but england is hot on their heals. Its always been that way.

You really need to drive a jaguar. you'll see what i mean.

[izzyloveslizzy]

But the fact of the matter is, the British, try as they might, won't ever fully catch-up with Germany. If anything they'll only get exhausted trying to play Germany's shadow, and they'll be beaten out. Bavarians may not be God's gift to men (that's kind of stupid to be honest, because they ARE men themselves).

By the way how German are you? I know 60% of America's ancestry is Aryan (57% German, and a 3% mix of Persian, Austrian, and Swiss). Interesting stuff. I think I can link that with your interest in German cars and your love of driving them through "Bavaria".

[thepolarfoxqx]

mostly bavarian, but with bits of irish, danish, norwegian, and scotch. british cars will always have a following. Firstly, they have a very beautiful style all their own, and many become classics (the XK will be a classic someday). I defy you to find a german car more high tech and sophisticated than an aston martin vanquish. On the whole, the german cars are more focused on technical performance and refinement, the british on character and class, as well as feeling sporty (even if they're not). They are both great. I would still give an edge to the germans, but england deserves their due.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Wow, you're like 4 different races thrown into a blender.

The XK won't exactly be a classic the way I see it. It just never hit it big. Don't get me wrong, it's as solid a roadster as any, and after all, it IS a Jag., which means it automatically gets a fair degree of classic-making insurance. But it's just not been that successful the way I see it.

As for the Vanquish thing, I don't know man, I have to seriously dispute that. Porsche can rip Aston Martin to pieces. And don't even try to throw a technological challenge or an engineering race at Merc or Beemer because they won't quit until they've buried you. Aston Martin? I don't think so. At the very least, when Aston Martin has it's moment(s), the Germans wil always be very close behind and gaining on them.

England definitely deserves their due, especially for giving "class" to everything. The British don't seem to be able to fart without making it "classy". But the Germans put a lot more heart and soul and hard work into what they do; plus, they have a certain level of extreme geneous which I think the British lack. Look at the RR Phantom, for example: the BMW engineers seem to sweat blood and bullets sometimes when they want to make something work the way Germans would like it to. Germany definitely deserves the 'edge' you're giving them.

[thepolarfoxqx]

yeah, if anything, i got the german, my sister looks very irish.

I never said a vanq would beat out a 911 turbo on the track, but with the world's most sophisticated aluminum space frame, a 6spd sequential, a V12 running a multi-layer computer system, with a CAN bus just for the engine computer components, the Aston is state of the art.

The XK will go down just like the XKE, a high up car all about style, representing an era, the XK has stayed the same long enough, it was the first V8 jaguar, i am willing to stake money it will become a classic. English cars have interiors down, while not always the most practical, always the most elegant, and for exterior styling, nothing has heart and soul.

their engineering is more entertainment and a representation of their dry sense of humor than anything else. always esoteric and bizarre, i always enjoy finding some other odd thing they've done.

for sheer technical merit, it goes to the germans, but for character, the brits get serious points. they aren't far behind, all things considdered. it isn' all about track numbers.

[izzyloveslizzy]

Hey, Irish or German, it's all good man. In fact Irish people can be very good-looking, but that's another story.

No doubt, the Aston-Martin has 911-busting potential, but I wouldn't count Porsche out, ever, which is why I would be pessimistic no matter what, of anyone trying to beat Porsche at their game(s). Very few actually accomplish that feit, and even fewer do it right. The only category Porsche should start worrying about is the Boxster roadster class. If BMW churns out Z4s and updated versions of it quicker than they did the Z3, they can very easily beat Porsche. BMW has grade-A material in their roadster. But getting back to the Aston vs Porsche, I do have to agree the Aston is state of the art. What A.M. seem to have done (especially with their latest top models) is totally different than what you would expect. They have chosen a specific part of the market to corner, and are putting all their efforts into that, and they COULD succeed in becoming the new benchmark. Besides they probably made the right choice by not going for super-high-end super-cars and trying to take a shot at Enzo.

Classic or not, the XK is likely (at this point anyway) to be dropped. This will be (according to rumours) a move to make room for the upcoming F-type. Of course the F-type has tons of potential so I wouldn't worry about the XK going away (if it does). I've never even driven an XK, so I can't give a personal review of it, let alone consider it a classic. From what I "know", it's almost on it's way to possibly becoming a classic. That's all I can say. Of course I wish I could drive one. But then again I've never even been in the passenger's seat of an XK..., so it goes without saying that your say probably counts more than mine. Heck, I've never even had the chance to see an XK from up-close (actually I may have; but not close enough, if you know my meaning...).

I can only hope your opinions about the engineering aren't directed at BMW.

To be honest the Germans are good at their game - VERY GOOD. So good in fact that they are, in some particular niches, light-years ahead of the rest of the auto-manufacturing world. And BMW is, almost without much doubt, always ahead by an inch (or 2.5cm) or so. That being said I don't have much doubt that the Brits are also capable, but in my mind the Germans take Gold, and the rest are, at best, tied for a distant Silver. Maybe it's too German-favored, that opinion, but it's fairly close to the mark as many would agree.

As for the "character" factor, the Germans have plenty of iconic character from their engineering and craziness in creativity and artistic extremism alone. Perhaps the British products always do have a bigger class and character image, but there are many things that always immediately remind you of Deutschland and Germans, such as certain cars that have that Teutonic German feel possessed by them and them only, which the Brits could only hope to have. When I see a Rolls Royce or Jag. I only think Britain. But when I see a BMW, VW, MB, Audi, Porsche, or even Opel, I am - for some reason - immediately reminded of Germany and all things German. More so than I would from the British cars. And I know I'm not alone on that one.

[thepolarfoxqx]

anyone who knows me makes german jokes like when I'm washing my cars, they'll yell "hey fisher, don't you know that water is free?, why don't you get some special german water!" I just got a BMW 318i, which I love (it is good to have a bmw again). I have always believed in german quality, when I oil change my cars, the suzuki gets valvoline base oil, most of my cars just get Mobil 1, and the cars i abuse get Lubro-Moly. My freinds ask why I pay $8 for oil, I say "it is german, naturally superior" I am the last person to be anti-german. I just think british cars a severely under-rated for their technical merit. A BMW or porsche has a very calm, cool, collected demeanor, unshakable. A british car has definate feel to it, it feels like you have to be all over it. I am a crazed BMW fan, and would not count out M4, nor would i doubt Porsche.

And i am aware of how light-years ahead german cars are. I looked under the hood of my 318 ( i got a '91 E30, in my mind, the perfect car) and it has stuff under there that some 2004 model GM cars are yet to get. That amazes me.