Bugatti will most likely lose speed record

[iroc-z89]

sorry thats just close to what my engine idles at

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo Speedster25,

 

kennst du schon Bugatti will most likely lose speed record (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

Bugatti Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | Bugatti Tuning (Anzeige) | Bugatti Uhren (Anzeige)

[bleh]

bleh 120ftlbs. is nothing.. I torque bolts down harder than that

was this an argument over quantity? or how where an engine makes power?

120wheel torque is the minimum granted 140 to the wheels isnt much more... i guess it sucks that the car runs a low 13sec quarter mile doesnt it?

this is proof that more power for the bugatti really isnt necissary to make it faster. i think ill make a new thread of this though, we have a tangent growing.

[mv]

As for the Bugatti, more power would not push this car much further. Iit's already pretty much at the limits of it's design - safety wise. If you could ever call 253 mph. at all safe.

Well, more power could at least ensure the initially claimed acceleration figure to 300kph - less than 14 seconds.

[bleh]

Well, more power could at least ensure the initially claimed acceleration figure to 300kph - less than 14 seconds.

it would help but is not necisary. we have to remember, 1000hp is a lot. and given how the engine is built i think that it will be considerably reliable.

[Speedster25]

Now all they need to do is lower the drag, and weight, and they should be fine. Regarding the C&D article, about 500 horsepower will get a car up to 185 mph, well first that depends on weight and drag. Also the top speed is 253 mph, this means that other 500 bhp adds roughly 37% on top of the 185. That other 500 gives the car 68 mph more. Interesting.

Jason

[bleh]

Now all they need to do is lower the drag, and weight, and they should be fine. Regarding the C&D article, about 500 horsepower will get a car up to 185 mph, well first that depends on weight and drag. Also the top speed is 253 mph, this means that other 500 bhp adds roughly 37% on top of the 185. That other 500 gives the car 68 mph more. Interesting.

Jason

its not a linear relationship. drag grows exponentially. therefore the countering power needed must grow exponentially as well

[Speedster25]

Well then, with cars that have a much better drag coefficient, not as much power and torque is needed to top 253 mph, or faster in acceleration. Especially with far less weight.

[Thunf]

Actually much weight is not at all bad when trying to reach topspeed, it's even better with more weight. The acceleration is more even.

[bleh]

your thoughts are close but not really too accurate.

f=ma or, acceleration = force divided by mass. so thats your acceleration. but what determines top speed?? when the force moving pushing is as great as the force resisting. do you understand the relationship? weight doesnt increase or decrease top speed, in simple theory, it just helps determine how long it takes to get there. this really is just basic physics. there are other details which do take effect but marginally(i.e. static friction from the tires which also is increased with downforce etc. etc. but we wont get into things like that)

cd and torque dictate topspeed. in theory the bugatti will have the same topspeed if it weighed half of what it does now. granted it will get there much faster if it did.

[Thunf]

your thoughts are close but not really too accurate.

f=ma or, acceleration = force divided by mass. so thats your acceleration. but what determines top speed?? when the force moving pushing is as great as the force resisting. do you understand the relationship? weight doesnt increase or decrease top speed, in simple theory, it just helps determine how long it takes to get there. this really is just basic physics. there are other details which do take effect but marginally(i.e. static friction from the tires which also is increased with downforce etc. etc. but we wont get into things like that)

cd and torque dictate topspeed. in theory the bugatti will have the same topspeed if it weighed half of what it does now. granted it will get there much faster if it did.

Sorry I know all that, I just wanted to underline it's not bad to have a heavy car when aiming for topspeed like above 400 km/h. It's no suprise why the recordholder jet car "Thrust SSC" that weights almost 10 tons, was just not designed more light weight. A car at this speed reacts to any kinds of turbulence much worse than a more heavy car. Remember LeMans? And American Lemans? Many cars flipped over when they was chasing each other, the rear diffusor created an underpressure above the chasing cars hood to the point where it lifted and flew like crazy. The cars that flipped was the BMW LMR at Petit Le Mans in '00, Mercedes CLR at Le Mans in '99, and the Porsche GT98 at Petit Le Mans '98. The most spectacular was Mercedes at Le Mans in 1999. I doubt that 2 Bugatti Veyrons will ever run close to each other in the same manner, but they weight allot more so it's not a similar risk. But I would not be afraid to test a Le Mans car at highspeed but I wouldn't like to chase anyone closely!

http://www.vehiclecraft.com/petitporsche.mpeg

http://www.planetofspeed.com/Video/LeMansflip.mpg

[Anzeige Amazon]

Hallo Speedster25,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Bugatti (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[Speedster25]

I have to disagree. There was a car called the Orca C113. It had like 641 bhp, and 664 lb. ft. of torque from a twin-turbo 4.2 liter Audi V8. It weighed 1874 lbs. And in theory could go 0-60 in 2.7 s and a top speed of 258 mph. Also the cd was .26.

I disagree, because I do not think that if the Bugatti had a cd of .26, with those numbers above, it could go 258 mph. 4,300 lbs weighs a lot. The Bugatti needs more power and torque to get up there, to counter being so heavy.

Jason

[Thunf]

It's 4-wheel drive, that eats up allot power, even if the new Haldex clutchs sytem is superior of the old 4wheel drives. There was that Sledgehammer Corvette that was less powerful but reached a higher topspeed than Veyron. The Nm (or lb-ft) in point where the surface of the tire is trying to push the ground, that what really counts. Imagine you could push any weight to the same speed as you run if the object have no frictional losses. The thing is that it just takes a bit more time to get there.

There is a big variation of what the losses are.. down to one wheel. You have losses as soon as power is splitted for several wheels.

[bleh]

woah, you cant argue with physics. acceleration is just how quickly you can get to the top speed. power effect acceleration and topspeed. drag coefficient effects high end acceleration and topspeed. weight effects acceleration in all aspects, not top speed.

if the veyron had a lower cd with 2000 more lbs it would most definitely go faster than 258mph, it just takes longer

[Speedster25]

Hold up, I thought torque affects top speed not power, I know power affects acceleration. But I know cd affects top speed along with the torque, and bleh as you said power also.

[bleh]

Hold up, I thought torque affects top speed not power, I know power affects acceleration. But I know cd affects top speed along with the torque, and bleh as you said power also.

torque is power

[LateNightCable]

Actually, horsepower effects top speed, whereas torque is the muscle that gets the car up to speed - in simple terms. If you'll notice in most instances, horsepower peaks at a higher rpm. than torque. After the torque peaks, it's the horsepower talking.

It's too late in the evening to get into the technicalities of it all, but those are the basics to remember in a nutshell.

[bleh]

horsepower is torque multiplied by rpm and divided by 5252. that is all. the torque of a motor at 5252 is IDENTICAL to its horsepower. thats why the torque curve always crosses the hp curve at 5252 unless they are on different scales

[Thunf]

yes... I think it like this:

Power is simply torgue per second!

Torgue=Nm (or lb-ft)

Power= Nm/s = kW

1kW=1.38hp.

Torgue and power goes hand in hand! There must be torgue available for the existance of power, and vice versa. After axles and gearing we have a force at the surface of the wheels, and that alters with different rpms. That's why we have both power and torgue to think about when understanding the carasteristics of the engine. We only have one variable at the wheel to think about at each specific rpm and gear, and that is force (Newtonmeter)!

[Speedster25]

Well then horsepower is very important to top speed. But LNC what are those technicalities?, that would be a good post. Also does anyone know the formula for drag coefficient, for cars or a chart, relating information about cd? Thanks guys.

Jason

[bleh]

so then what is the formula that implements power to acceleration? or top speed?

[LateNightCable]

Well, the basic formula, if there is one would be among the most basic of all. And that is power being the force of one mass against another, causing movement. Go much deeper than that and suddenly we're talking straight up mathematics.

I think this would be an opportune time to provide a link to the somewhat overlooked " How Stuff Works " thread is Miscellaneous. - http://www.carpassion.com/en/forum/showthread.php?t=1280

[bleh]

thanks lnc i forgot all about that one.

Conclusion

BHP sais nothing about a car or how fast it is. It's all about force resistance and gearratios. There are several engineering tactics, one doesn't make the other wrong but from a consumer pov it could be better if the consumer knew more about engines. It is not only good to have alot of torque but also a very areodynamic body.

yup

[Speedster25]

Haha. I just found out that the McLaren F1 LM (5 built), has the best engine out there, slightly better than the 4.308l V8 from the F430 (483-490bhp, 343 lb-ft.). It has a 6.064 V12 with 680 bhp, and 520 lb.-ft of torque. But the new F60?, will have better specific horsepower, but with equal specific torque (86 lb.-ft/l.) So the F60 would be better based on these two very important measurments. (6.262l V12, 850 bhp, 542 lbs.-ft)

Jason