Bugatti will most likely lose speed record

[Speedster25]

With the the new speed record for the veyron of 248.5 mph, this will probably spark car makers to push further past the 250 mph mark. It is now known that 252-253 mph is the mark of Bugatti. But in my mind this shouldn't be hard to pass, by some makers who are willing to. Some certainly have the technology to push pass easily.

Here some of Bugatti's stats:

1001 DIN hp (987 hp Amer.)

922 lbs. ft of torque

All of this out of an 8 liter W16 (2 V8's), quad turbocharged.

A W16 should make almost 1000 hp by itself.

Without the four turbos, the output is probably around 600 hp.

So the engine technology is out there. Ferrari, Koenigsegg, Lamborghini, even SSC Autos, McLaren, certainly have the technology to surpass the Bugatti.

And SSC already passed Bugatti with the Ultimate Aero in terms of power(1050 bhp, 6.2 liter supercharged V-Eight). Also has over 800 pound-feet of torque.

But in my mind Ferrari makes the best engines in the world: Enzo (5.998 liter 660bhp V12, 8200 rpm), F430 (4.308 liter 483/490bhp V8' 8500 rpm), FXX (6.262 liter 800bhp V12, 8500 rpm...), all are naturally aspirated, (also the 700 bhp 6.0 liter V12 built for Maserati by Ferrari). Also from italiaspeed.com shows the 2007 Ferrari F60 will have a 6.262/6.3 liter 850 bhp+ V12 naturally aspirated (N/A rpm).

The drag coefficient for the Bugatti is .36 cd. While many past cars have way better aerodynamics than .36. SSC, McLaren, Koenigsegg, and Ferrari all have cars under .35 cd.

And weight the Bugatti is over 4000 lbs. The cars mentioned above are all under 3300 lbs., with some going down to 2600 lbs. 800 hp is not even needed to get past 255 mph, with the right downforce and aerodynamics.

So to sum this all up. The possibility of going over 255 mph is very possible. But I'm not saying that the Bugatti is a crappy car. It is a little overpriced though.

(This would also lead to the MF1, and other future supercars)

Be free to agree or disagree.

Jason W.

[Anzeige eBay]

Hallo Speedster25,

 

kennst du schon Bugatti will most likely lose speed record (Anzeige)? Dort ist vieles zu finden.

 

Bugatti Ersatzteile (Anzeige) | Bugatti Tuning (Anzeige) | Bugatti Uhren (Anzeige)

[bleh]

500 hp from a twin turbo v8 isnt that bad is it? well... it does sound pretty weak. and you theres got to be a way to turn up the boost on the bugatti.

[Thunf]

Some cars are made to run and rev on the limit. Some cars are made to last, even with 1000 hp. It's only positive that the engine has more capacity but only(!) 1001 hp is made. Why? Because this bugatti will certainly be a classic, and perhaps this Bugatti don't want a bad reputation!

[iroc-z89]

May I point something out---

Record Set 20 years ago on a paved road 278 mph.. By an Oldsmobile 4banger and that has been broken

[bleh]

May I point something out---

Record Set 20 years ago on a paved road 278 mph.. By an Oldsmobile 4banger and that has been broken

was this a mass produced car from the oldsmobile factory?

[iroc-z89]

Is the Bugatti in mass production like your civic? The platform was used to test out new engines, transmissions etc and break records

[bleh]

its nothing like my civic. we wont go into that. your car is nothing like my civic.

but it is a street legal car from the factory. and much closer to oem spec than my civic ever will be.

my point is that some rich dude just has to buy one and up the boost and shatter records... but then it wouldnt be from the factory now would it.

[iroc-z89]

I think you missed the point bleh

[Speedster25]

My point is, is that the Veyron is pretty special yeah you have to give em credit. But it isn't that special. It took way too long for them to finally get it out. Now it is http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=10108. But when I see a quad-turbo 8 liter W16. I think looks like they needed a lot of turbos to get the power they wanted. Think of it like this, 4 liter V8 twin-turbo with 500 hp. Okay thats not that bad, but still that should be more. Or an 8 liter W16 by itself producing around 600 hp, and 4 turbos each producing 100 hp. Anyone here that knows the math, please tell me how to subtract 15.8 psi of boost from those four turbos from 1001 hp.

Just to put that out there.

Jason W.

[bleh]

is that the boost that it holds 15.8?? that is a little high.

you have to remember though, the turbos are not making power at all and 250hp from a turbo 2.0liter 4banger isnt that bad. a 4.0 tt v8 making 500hp is pretty decent. its nothing incredible and there should definitely be potential for more. and i think there is. just like everything from vag there is a huge potential in a chip just because they are tuned sooooo conservatively.

iroc - i get your point. i understand that other cars have passed a bunch of records. i understand that its really just another car thats built and it happens to be back by a manufacturor, but i think your failing to see mine. should you have the means, you could buy this car, maybe two or three.

this is a factory car. there is no way that it is at its limit. there has to be some way to tweak it for at least 10% gain in power. now remember that 10% is 100hp. since its already turbo, im pretty sure you can up the boost and if the fuel can keep up then you upgrade, if the turbos cant keep up then you upgrade and im sure this thing will push the outer limits.

no its not practical but it is a factory car.

[Anzeige Amazon]

Hallo Speedster25,

 

schau doch mal hier zum Thema Bugatti (Anzeige)? Eventuell gibt es dort etwas Passendes.

 

Der V16 Motor zum Selberbauen (Anzeige) ist auch genial.

[LateNightCable]

Pure speed is not hard to get, combining it with a measure of refinement and usability takes effort.

But I predict that any manufacturer with the means who wished to surpass the Bugatti's top speed with a factory car would not have too hard a time doing it. The Bugatti is overloaded in a number of ways, in it's quest to be not only the fastest, but also the most luxurious and bespoke exotic vehicle of modern times. In other words, it's not a singularly focused car. By contrast, the McLaren F1 was. That's why we still use it as a benchmark more than 10 years later.

The Bugatti pushes the speed envelope for sure, but there will be faster production cars in the future - as positively insane as that is.

The car's engine itself is far from super, when you consider it has 8 liters, 16 cylinders, and four turbos.

[mv]

The car's engine itself is far from super, when you consider it has 8 liters, 16 cylinders, and four turbos.

I reckon it's prudent to add that the engine is far from super in this particular tune ,which seems rather conservative and probably long-term reliability focused, as there still are tons of potential. A more powerful 1200hp or even 1400hp version is supposedly under development.

[Speedster25]

I don't know about the 1200/1400hp part. I believe that the engine is at its fullest stock. I doubt it will produce more.

Jason W.

[Thunf]

What will Bugatti gain on having a smaller engine with the same amount of power? What use would more than 1001 hp be for this vehicle? Topspeed is definately not the only aim with this car, it's acceleration is untouched, the braking is untouched. I'd like to see 0-100-0 mph test between McLaren, Enzo, Carrerra GT and this Bugatti. I know already the Bugatti is totally in a different class! Just think about the stopping distance from 100km/h of 31m! Top speed is only there for the status, nothing else.

Also that powerplant is contructed, as any other engine, with more factors than: hp/l, and boostpressure. There are dozens of factors and reasons why this engine is exactly like it is. What tuners do to this car for altering those factors is another thing. Consumption factor when planning this Bugatti, I must say I doubt that was involved!

[Speedster25]

Thats true. You are right bout that. But, I'm saying that yeah the figures are nice. But the engine is decent, nothing spectacular like world-leading Ferrari. It is like two 4 liter V8's producing 600bhp, or one 4 liter V8 producing 300bhp. A 4.308 liter V8 from Ferrari produces 483/490bhp (F430), that is amazing. Either way you put it the engine just doesn't "wow" me at all (even though the one 4 liter V8 twin-turbo producing 500 bhp does sound a little better). It is an overrated engine in my mind, so many others beat it (maybe because two Volkswagen V8's were used), but it is still decent. But I can't argue, it is still one hell of a car.

Jason

[mv]

A 4.3 liter V8 from Ferrari produces 483bhp (F430), that is amazing. Jason

The thing is though there are other aspects to take into consideration. The peak power of the F430 may well be amazing since it is a naturally aspirated engine, however, whenever you have a high-revving NA engine unless you're revving it you have no performance at all. And I doubt you're always in the mood to rev it, "scream" at the passers-by and look like a nutter. And that's where the Veyron excels. Generally, a low hp/liter ratio doesn't necessarily have to mean the engine is not admirable. Remember the Zonda, which pulls strongly from idle.

[mv]

I don't know about the 1200/1400hp part. I believe that the engine is at its fullest stock. I doubt it will produce more.

Jason W.

You might believe in whatever you want. What's more it already produces more - the aimed power of the Veyron is actually 1050hp as there might be 5% variance in the production and they want to make sure every car that leaves the factory has AT LEAST 1000hp. Hence Bugatti's executives claim that most of the cars have in between 1040-1060hp but if you're lucky enough your Veyron may have full 1100hp.

[Speedster25]

But the Bugatti engine has more cylinders, more displacement, more power per liter, and more output overall than any other engine in the WR family tree. When I ask Bugatti development boss Wolfgang Schreiber to explain how the same engine can be rated at 1001 SAE net horsepower at 6000 rpm for the U.S. but only 987 horsepower (1001 PS) for Europe, he laughs, saying, "The production engines are all putting out between 1020 and 1040 PS—enough to cover both promises."

Car and Driver

The F430 revs at 8500 rpm, while the Veyron revs at 6000 rpm. So yeah you're right, but whenever your in a car like any supercar, you're gonna want to floor it.

Jason

(Also I never said the engine wasn't admirable. Just overrated, it still is admirable I can't argue against that. Just overhyped.)

1020 PS = 1006 hp

1040 PS = 1026 hp

[mv]

The F430 revs at 8500 rpm, while the Veyron revs at 6000 rpm. So yeah you're right, but whenever your in a car like any supercar, you're gonna want to floor it.

That is true, but in a 911 turbo ,for instance, you've got all the performance whichever gear you're in, unlike the F430 - that's what I was trying to point out.

[LateNightCable]

The peak power of the F430 may well be amazing since it is a naturally aspirated engine, however, whenever you have a high-revving NA engine unless you're revving it you have no performance at all.

This isn't all true. The F360 for example needed to be revved. But the larger displacement and torquier F430, which revs just as high, and doesn't reach maximum torque until 5,200 rpm. ( higher than the 360 ) has a completely different low level performance character. So, while there is often no replacement for displacement - the 430 maintains the same bore as the 360 I believe, whether or not a high revving engine has power down low or not often depends greatly on bore and stroke and tuning issues.

As for the Bugatti, more power would not push this car much further. Iit's already pretty much at the limits of it's design - safety wise. If you could ever call 253 mph. at all safe.

[iroc-z89]

I agree with what LNC says, because most small displacement engines make their power on the high end. They are "tuned" like this because the make very little horsepower and torque on the low end, so a camshaft or multiple camshafts is given to the engine that create power on the high end. Where as an engine that has a very high displacement, usually makes more power on the low end, this is especially true for torquey engines with a long stroke.. For the longer stroke makes it unsafe to run at high rpm.

[Speedster25]

Nicely put, LNC. You helped me out.

[bleh]

most small displacement engines make their power on the high end. They are "tuned" like this because the make very little horsepower and torque on the low end, so a camshaft or multiple camshafts is given to the engine that create power on the high end.

thats why this naturally aspirated 1.8 liter makes between 120-140 ft.lbs. to the wheels from 2500 rpm to redline(8212). fyi the dotted line is the old header, the solid line is the new one.

and we all know horsepower has nothing to do with the physics of how the car actually accelerates.

[iroc-z89]

bleh 120ftlbs. is nothing.. I torque bolts down harder than that

[Thunf]

bleh 120ftlbs. is nothing.. I torque bolts down harder than that

Not at 2500rpm! Gear the engine down to 2 rpms and watch the torque!