Phaeton

[thepolarfoxqx]

VW announced production specs for Phaeton:

Curb weight on the W12 model to 5,200lbs (yeah, scary - it makes S600 look light)

Engines will be:
3.2L VR6 V6 - 240hp
4.2L 5V V8 - 330hp (they decided the W8 wasn't powerful enough to fill the gap)
6.0L W12 - 440hp (factory 0-60mph with W12 is 6.2 seconds)

Some thoughts:
I: A six cylender on a two and a half ton super lux-car?
II: Jaguar's 3.0L V6 makes 250hp for 2003 (in S type form) - why is VW's less potent?
III. Why not keep the VW engine theme going - tune up the 4.0L W8.
IV: With the W12 it only 0-60s in 6.2 - with a speed auto. BMW 745i can beat that with a V8 (so can S500 and S
V: It has a big VW logo on the hood.
VI: The interior looks like a Vegas Casino
VII: It has indapendant 4 corners climate control - maybe that accounts for the amazing weight
VIII: There are 160+ buttons between the console, steering wheel, and driver and passenger side doors. Suddenly I-Drive doesn't seem so bad?
IX: Who would pay $85,000+ for a Volkswagen?

[Seb]

Hard to say i think they are not going to make so many.

[thepolarfoxqx]

After developing a 4.0L W8 engine - as well as numerous modifications to the Passat Chasis to sell less than 5,000 Passat W8s (why buy a Passat W8 when you can buy an A6 2.7T which handles better, is faster, and more prestigous) in north america (probably a similar number in europe).

Now develop Phaeton - to compete with A8? - first off - the W12 Phaeton only keeps up with A8 till 60, secondly, if you are buying a car for that much money or that many cylenders - part of it is prestige - why would you buy a VW? It is slower and less advanced than 7 Series, Less Roomy and luxurious than S - Class, and More expensive and less classy than A8 - why buy it? In fact, the rear is divided so it is a 4 seater, you can't even lay down for long trips (that alone is an issue for me). Why is VW spending tons of money on low production cars? Passat W8, Phaeton, Touareg (well, that might sell), Bugatti Veryon 16/4, VW GT, etc. - and not spending money furthering its bread and butter cars, for instance - Passat needs more power (and not in the form of a 40K luxo cruiser) for its 6 cylender to compete with 240hp Accord and Altima, and could use a mid-life refreshing to keep it cutting edge, and Jetta needs a complete overhaul (it is way overdue) - in terms of room and platform dynamics, Jettas competitors are catching up, GTI went from class of one to having to compete with Ford SVT Focus, Honda Civic Si, Mini Cooper S, and Nissan Sentra Spec V. I am wondering why VW is developing so many high price low volume cars? Why can't they let audi and bentley do their thing, borrow some technology here and there, and have VW be the bread and butter company - VW brand management is well on its way to where GM is now.

[Sportline]

The trouble for VW is that they are taking the brand upmarket and trying to go head to head with Mercedes, while leaving Audi to compete with BMW. Not smart, but without it we would not have such high quality VW products. Honestly, I think that the Phaeton is quite a good looking car, and is much more tasteful than the 7-Series. It is a halo car that will sell slowly, but help pull the other cars upmarket. Just look at the S-Class... how many S-Class do you think M-B sells compared to the C-Class and E-Class?

[thepolarfoxqx]

is the glutanous phaeton the image VW wants to project.

S class says classy

7 Series says sporty

XJ Says Character

A8 says modern.

Phaeton says heavy and glutonous

[M@rtin]

Have you ever seen the Phaeton driving on the street? If it has a dark colour, it looks very nice. And the W12 engine sounds good.

[Foxman]

The problem with the competing cars mentioned is that in most cases they cannot be purchased with a manual transmission. For those of us who only want manual transmission, and desire full size quality sedan, there are not many choices. If the Phaeton is imported to US with manual, this will be the only car in its class, other than BMW 5 series, with manual available. I wish they would make the manual available with the larger engine, but apparently it is not offered with that configuration.

[thepolarfoxqx]

believe it or not, VW does not currently have a manual tranny that can support that much torque, in north america, manuals are unpopular. I have seen probably 100 suzuki XL-7s around, mine is the only I have yet seen with a stick. I wish big SUVs came with stick shifts.

I also wish Audi would tweak up the 4.2 and offer it with a 6spd (I hope bimmer keeps an stick available with 5 speed when it gets redone in a few years).

[Mihai]

I think vw phaeton is a cool car it's better than the s class and the 7 series. The vw name is moving upmarket, but the passat, jetta and golf will be completely renewed within 2 years. it's a long term strategy.

[thepolarfoxqx]

phaeton is certainly different. I doubt you could argue acceleration or luxury against S class, handling or technology against 7 series. It is something new, I just don't know it is superior to the segments best.