911 V8

thepolarfoxqx · 08-08-02, 05:00 AM

Porsche said they will put Cayanne's 4.5L V8 into the next gen 911 - still rear mounted. Think about the weight gain here. Not only that, all the weight goes to the heavy tail. What are they thinking?

Seb · 08-11-02, 04:01 PM

I think this is only a race engine. For maby a new GT3 to beat BMW. Non charged engine.

But think if there was a B8/V8 whatever in one 911 and B6 i think everyone would choose the 8 cylinder. I think 3.8l like most of the race 911 has now is alot on a 6 cylinder engine. 2 more cylinders would maby be a smart choice. A Audi RS6/RS8, BMW M3/M5 i hope will never beat a 911 at leat the turbocharged model.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-11-02, 09:58 PM

I have read reports of a the 4.5L V8 (designed for Cayanne) being fitted into a 911 chasis. The 4.5L is over 150lbs. (68kilos) heavier than the turbocharged H6 (F6). Now that would further weight bias the rear end. As powerful as the computerized skid control is, it would have to apply more braking, remove more power, and have more to transfer to keep the back end in check. In turbocharged form, this engine is deignated to put out 500hp. Now, assuming a 150lb. increase in weight (from the 4.5L), the 911 would now weigh approximately 3,450lbs - to 500 hp - that is 6.9 lbs p/hp. Assuming the new M5 puts out 550hp (the optimistic number - though very possible) - and it weights 3700lbs (target weight) - that is 6.73lbs/hp - the rear weight bias of the 911 turbo would naturally help it in off the line (my means of enhanced traction) - also - if it were AWD equipped (highly likely) that would further enhance traction. But once they were moving - the numbers say that the M5 could keep even (perhaps even take an advantage). But when the 911 hits the curves, no amount of help from stability control and awd can completely correct its obscene weight bias (it would actually calculate -assuming they made no other changes - 74-26. Does anyone remember the 930 series 911s of the late 70s and 80s - turn off the stability control - and that is what you get! There is no way the 911 with the extra tail weight could keep up with the perfectly balanced M5 (49.6:50.4) (the RS6 is 63/37 distrobution - therefore would understeer - the E55 is actually pretty balanced 54:46 - but will likely be tuned more for comfort than sport) through the curves - the current M5 already has a higher slalom speed than the 911 turbo - so imagine you add 150lbs to the tail of the 911 - and then take the new suspension geometry of the BMW - which acutally puts more pressure on the tires in cornering (I hope they spare us that continental junk and put something decent like Pirelli PZeros on there) should corner better than it does now.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-13-02, 05:42 AM

Porsche has confirmed that a V8 will become the standard engine for the 911, and it will remain rear mounted. Nautally Aspirated - in current form - this engine is good for 340hp, turbocharged, it is good for 450 (though 500 is no stretch). What they have not said is how they intend to compensate for the extra weight in the tail (perhaps move the transmission further forward - sorta like a backwards corvette C5 (C5 has a rear mounted transaxle)?

Anyhow, after 30 years with flat sixes, porsche is placing a V8 into 911 - as if making Cayanne weren't bad enough.

Seb · 08-16-02, 01:25 PM

Having hard to belive Porsche would to anything thats bad to the 911. About V8 and B6 i dont know about weight. Like the M3 and M5. The M5 engine is alu i think both engines has about the same Weight.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-16-02, 04:30 PM

The block on the M3 is cast iron. Yes, both engines are aluminum (V8 and H6) but by virtue of the flat design having a more compact crankcase, and having 2 more cylenders on it - it would logically gain weight - like why BMW is considdering Magnesium Alloy for the M5 engine - Porsche has likely got some pretty bright plan figured out - it just doesn' seam like a 911 without an air cooled H6 (not that they are even air cooled anymore). There was talk of a center engine 911 (V8 weight), but they decided rear, so I guess they have got something up their sleeve - I just don't see how it could handle as well as the current one - or even a more balanced car.

Corey · 11-06-02, 12:41 AM

I agree fox. If they do make the change to an eight, it will grossly unbalance the car. For years, 911's have been one of the premier handling cars in the world. Suddenly, you have a car that has a possibility of handling like a Hummer! I mean, how can they possibly make up for that kind of an imbalance? I think that they are making a big mistake here. They need to leave the formula alone!

thepolarfoxqx · 11-07-02, 05:08 AM

it is very simple.

The way it is, the porsche 911 turbos engine unit is sufficently heavy that to drive it hard easily - the stability control must be on. With it off - it is considderibly more difficult to drive the porshce very hard without loosing stability.

With a V8 (much much much heavier) - and the higher polar center of gravity afforded by a V8 - the electronic nanny will have to do a hell of a lot more to keep the car stable when driven hard. It will lower the limits on handling. Not cool. If you turn of the PSC - you will find a car that is more than happy to put itself tail first as soon as you test its handling.

Anyone remember driving the Ferrari 348? A car with amazing limts - but one that was nearly impossible to drive to that point. I fear the 911 is going there.

Do we need a V8? Who calls a 911 turbo underpowered?

Corey · 11-07-02, 03:04 PM

And to be quite honest, I don't think that the first eights out, will be beasts. I am sure that the current configured Turbo will still out perform. Then they will wait until the complaints roll in, and up the power. Like I said before... No reason to mess with a good thing. Porsche set the standard of getting incredible power out of a small powerplant... And kept them fairly reliable. Can any of the other exotic companies really say that? That would just add another reason to buy older cars for me.

Just curious about something a bit off topic... Has anyone seen the weight distribition numbers on the GT. I am pretty sure it is a bit out of whack in itself.

thepolarfoxqx · 11-07-02, 09:31 PM

36:64 is the number i keep seeing.

It would be severely worse if not for GT being central engine.

I suspect 911 V8 Turbo may break the 30:70 barrier.