The Truth

Arty25 · 10-19-03, 04:21 PM

The truth is that Mercedes has been supercharging trying to beat the comp like BMW and Audi, Mb cant make a fast car with out charging it, the only way they get 992lbft or 600 hp is with there huge turbocharged engines, I believe that MB is all bolt-on. They are the daewoo of the auto world. Some people will get mad about this forum, but all I have to say is the truth hurts. Thats my two cents

Thunf · 10-19-03, 05:09 PM

"The truth is that Mercedes has been supercharging trying to beat the comp like BMW and Audi"

-Well, who is Mercedes then?

GIR · 10-19-03, 05:57 PM

Funny cause MB has anounced that they will be dropping chargers in the future.

Anywayz don't underestimate the charged engines MB makes. Chargers are known to be unreliable. Over the past few years MB has proven that you can have a charger and a reliable engine that has a long life span. The charged engines MB makes are not like, lets say, the engines Honda makes which blowup after a few thousand miles.

Even though MB has chargers they have the calmest and quietest engines in the world. I think you really need to realize that MB is not sport, MB is luxury cruiser. To be honest those cars do feel great.

thepolarfoxqx · 10-19-03, 11:51 PM

welll, we have conflicting reports on the future of MB engines.

And Mercedes is about engines that feel powerful and effortless, typically that isn't a characteristic of highly tweaked motors. Using superchargers and turbos, which MB has done flawlessly, allows their engines to retain the merc feel with more power. Merc does not have sporiness or efficiency as a number one prioritiy, they are great crusiers for people with excess, and they fulfill that mission in ways other manufacturers could only dream of doing (caugh, lexus)

Kevin321 · 10-20-03, 05:13 PM

Thankyou for the great post Arty.

raptor75104 · 10-20-03, 11:02 PM

Arty, you do indeed have two wonderful cars, one being extremely rare on our shores (assuming you are, in fact, on our shores).

I'd say that your likening Mercedes to Daewoo is awful harsh. Mercedes is not trying to be BMW, just to compete. I wonder if they aren't trying to be too many things to too many people. Still, if you had an automotive company that made "grapefruits" and was constantly being compared to a company that made "limes" what would you do? Be competetive (sp?), or tell them to take a flying leap? That's a lot of recognition and commercialism that they need. Everyone does. In addition, wouldn't you try to expand your market share? Hit as many people as you could: Sell as many cars as you could?

Mercedes, while not the "carved from a single billet" cars they used to be, are still excellent. And they do well what they're meant to do. I did worry at the time of the merger what would happen to their quality control and they have definitely had some slips to say the least. But they're working on it. The reality is that business is business. And that "cost control" and "quality control" are tough to put in the same sentence. BMWs are definitely not perfect. It's blatantly apparent that they spend the majority of their money on the "7". Look how lavish it is. The "3" couldn't hope to compare in terms of perception of quality. Since you have a Nissan and so do I, I'll cite them as well for the cheesy use of plastics in the Altima. I test drove one and when I shifted into "D" the whole console jiggled. Terrible. I'll keep my 2000 model year Nissans, thank you very much. We have Renault to thank for that. But by the same token, Nissan/Infiniti have been launching a whole host of new products, most of which I find aesthetically pleasing with great "punch."

The bottom line is that nobody's perfect, and that's MY two cents. Daewoos were absurd, bordering on insulting, clear across the line. No power, no aesthetics, no quality. How ANY sold is beyond me.

Raptor.

LateNightCable · 10-21-03, 12:00 AM

The 3-Series is BMW's biggest money maker - in that respect, I doubt the 7-Series compares. I agree that they should put more content into it for less money. But when you are a big company, and you can sell a lot of something, as in the case of the 3-Series, you are going to be tempted to try and get as much profit as you can, with as little output as possible. Not cool though, especially for a bread and butter car.

When Daimler and Chrysler got together, Mercedes was very possesive about their image. They were alright about letting Chrysler use certain parts and things, but they insisted that Mercedes engines and platforms be reserved only for Mercedes-Benz cars. Well, that didn't work because now we have the Chrysler Crossfire, based on a Mercedes platform and equipped with a Mercedes engine. Mercedes is going backwards, while Chrysler is comeing up in the world. Perhaps thats' the biggest irony of all in that situation.
Mercedes can try to protect itself from being " cheapend " by Chrysler, but thats' like a guy refusing to sleep with his wife because she cramps his style. You get married, things are bound to be shared - like platforms and engines.

Speaking of Daewoo, when I heard they were coming over to sell in the U.S., I would have bet that they were going to flunk out, and they did - big time. They tried to target young people, but they didn't realize that, if young people have 8 grand to spend on a car, they aren't going to buy a crap car with no features, just because it's new. The people who bought them, did so because they wanted a " new " car, and they were hooked into a very attractive payment plan. I visited a Daewoo dealer once, and the chrome finish was peeling off of the grill on a brand new car on the showroom floor! Be careful, because GM, which owns 42% of Daewoo now, as GM Daewoo, wants to sell that crap in America again, rebadged as Suzukis' or something.

thepolarfoxqx · 10-21-03, 04:53 AM

BMW is indapendant, and does not share parts, that's a lot of what you pay for in a bimmer. You'll never open the hood of your bimmer and find a part with a chrysler star or ford oval on it. 3 is an institution, and for decades, was it's own segment, and 3 alone more or less caries BMW. Mercedes, for decades, had build quality as its biggest selling point. I don't think they should have so hastily abandoned it.

NeoAnderson84 · 10-21-03, 06:26 AM

doesnt BMW use getrag trannnys, same as FORD and CHEVY??? I mean, if we're going to liken Daewoo to Mercedes. Just showing the other side

thepolarfoxqx · 10-22-03, 12:01 AM

Actually, the 3 and 5 series six cylender cars use a ZF Type H Manual, The 545i uses a ZF Type G, ZF by the way, makes the manuals for Mercedes. The M3 and M5 use the Getrag Type D-226 manual transmission, which costs as much as some fords and chevys. Getrag's trannies are widely regaurded as the best. No chevrolet uses one actually. A cadillac CTS manual uses the Getrag 260 (which dates back 2 decades), and is one of the slickest shifting trannies around. IT uses this, as CTS's entire driveline is out of the OPEL parts bin. Ford doesn't use it either. They use the Getrag 221 in the Lincoln LS, but the lincoln LS's driveline comes out of Jaguar's parts bin. I'm sure you knew that though right?