The death of Rolls Royce - Page 2

LateNightCable · 08-12-04, 07:50 PM

Perhaps the application is just not the best, because GM boxes are actually very good traditionally - in GM vehicles. And they work well enough in the Arnage.

The seating in the 300 is upright, but you can still recline the seats if you wish, I find it refreshing. You mean the old E is too tall or the 300? Because the 300 comes across as fairly wide as well, plus the roof itself is pretty flat, and this helps.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-13-04, 05:30 AM

GM transmissions are not good by any stretch of the imagination. They break - a lot, their shifting is erratic, at time smooth, other times rough, always protracted and never crisp, the Zf box is a definite upgrade in every way. Rolls used to have a reputation for awful reliability, that has faded, what has changed, BMW engines and ZF transmissions, bosch electrical, and zf power steering. The E-Class had the most upright seating of any car in it's class. The 300 looks too tall because the belt line is way too high on the car. The upright was to inflate leg room, which is good, but not really neccesary in a car with a 120" wheelbase. It's personal preference I guess, a commanding seating position is popular now, I'm just a fan of the low and in the thick of it position porsche and BMW use, maybe it's just cause I'm tall, I don't know. I know rolls has gotten better since they started infusing german engineering (which is better than american engineering), and the belt-line on the 300 is too high and the windows are small.

LateNightCable · 08-13-04, 06:42 PM

Well, connected to a 350, they ain't bad. I've personally had good experience with GM boxes, the old 4L60E 4-speed, otherwise known as Hydramatic as an example. They are certainly smoother and more responsive than what Ford uses in the Crown Vic which can behave harshly when you really nail it. I've never known GM boxes to break a lot, and I doubt police departments across the country and New York cab drivers have either.

The 300 is a passenger car, putting forth a different face than say a BMW. It can get away with being tall, and the windows and high beltline have a stylistic purpose, which I will go into more in my design analysis.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-14-04, 12:30 AM

i can't wait to read that. needless to say, the very interesting engineering in the 300 gives me quite a bit to say on that part too.

BMW is amazing in how they can make such large cars with so little useful space. Technically, a 5 series is in the same class of car as a civic.

Civic Vs. M5
Battle of the Compact Cars.

LateNightCable · 08-14-04, 08:25 PM

Yeah, though I think the old GM F-body cars might take the cake for most size with the least useable space.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-15-04, 05:45 AM

hey man, the camaro/firebird may have been huge, but in terms of trunk space, it owns a mustang - or a 3, 5, 7, and some small SUVs.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-16-04, 04:50 AM

and by the way, you talk about the 4L60E as something past tense, the GTO uses that box, a number of GM truck/SUV vehicles use it, and the corvette uses a version modified to be bolted to the rear transaxle that they call 4L65E, but internally it's a 4L60E. This tranny isn't exactly new either. It's on everything they make. Pretty sure it's on suburban too.

Their new 5L50E they are putting on the STS is pretty good, but i'm not totally sure they make that. I know they don't make the 5spd on the CTS, and they gave it a GM designation. They also gave a GM designation to the Getrag 260 manual on the CTS.

LateNightCable · 08-16-04, 06:42 PM

You can pack a mighty grocery run in an F-car, and I would take a Firebird over a Mustang, but the backseat ain't for tall people.

I speak of the 4L60E in the past tense simply bacause it's not new, it's the workhorse of the fleet alright. A good solid box suitable for many applications - even Bentleys'.

thepolarfoxqx · 08-17-04, 02:35 AM

The ZF is a big step up. That said, everyone's old transmissions weren't that great. My rover has an old ZF 4 speed auto they tried to refresh. It isn't that great, it is an improvement over a 4L60E, but not much. I just don't get why they don't just make a 5 speed automatic, drop one in swap shift style (like ford did) or toss on a seccond over drive Chrysler did and gear around it outback. The extra gear helps.

I have news for you, tall people don't fit in a mustang either. A mustang is a big car, yet I can't figure out where all of the car is. There is no room up front, no room in back (at all), no trunk. Where did are they hiding it all. Outside the car it is big, yet inside it is not. The F-Car may be uncomfortable, have no room - front or back (and the ugliest steering wheel ever), but it does have an awesome trunk. Who needs an SUV when you can have a camaro?

LateNightCable · 08-17-04, 02:53 AM

No, the Mustang isn't roomy either, but the 93'-96' Firebird is really long, check out that nose. I think the Mustang gave the perception of being more practical ( and roomy ), thats' why it's still around, and the F-cars aren't.