Pros and Cons of American sporties

[thepolarfoxqx]

i agree totally with bleh

actually, no european manufacturer uses the mustang cobra engine. Sorry. Actually, the supercharger ford used is the same Eaton model used on the pre '01 Jaguar XJR and XKRs, so I guess you could say that was out of the european parts bin.

Koenigsegg bought rights to make the Ford SVT 4.6L DOHC V8, that's true.

Ford's supercharged 32V 4.6L = 390hp
Koenigsegg' Supercharged 32V 4.6L = 655hp

They both run on the same gas. I dare you to put 87 octane into mustang Cobra.

That there is a great example of europeans doing it better, hell, ford's supercharged 5.4L is only making 500, still 155hp short. Viper only makes 500 on 8.3L, I am an american - and I don't find a big engine making small power that attractive.

By the way my foolish freind, do you happen to know who debuted the 2.2L Ecotec engine? Opel. I am pretty sure they are very much german. It later came to the US. I think we are using their engines.

For instance, the 3.9L that goes into Thunderbird and Lincoln LS is actually a Jaguar AJ-V8 with a slightly shorter stroke. The first model year of Thuderbirds were built in coventry, england by Jaguar. Mostly because their engine and transmission are purely JAGUAR. They are, by the way, not american.

The 3.2L engine used in the Cadillac CTS is built in germany by Opel, the engine is shipped here for final assembly. It is a german engine, by design and construction.

The 2004 Saturn Vue is going to replace it's european built 3.0L (yes, made by Opel in germany) with a Honda 3.5L. Yes, GM is buying engines from honda now. The intake plenum has the H on it. Open your GM, see the honda H!

The chrysler crossfire is built in Baden Wurtenberg germany, it has a daimler 3.2L V6, a Daimler 5spd tranny, in fact, it is all daimler.

The underpinnings to the new chrysler pacifica are straight off the E-Class.

Starting for 2004, Dodge is phasing out their own line of 4 cylenders for a line designed and built in korea by hyundai which chrysler is now buying.

The new "high-feature" GM V6s (which aren't that revolutionary) were primarily developed by Opel in germany, who worked with GM powertrain division in the US (who basically only worked production fisability) and SAAB in sweden who designed the engine control systems. SAAB is also handling the turbocharging.

The upcoming Pontiac Solstice is based on the british Vauxhall VX.

I am pretty sure the European manufacturer are selling their fine engineering, not buying it.

[cmill]

Polar fox...First of all I am not your friend, nor am I foolish. The word you should have used was ignorant (brush up on your english gramar). Second there are european/ itallian car makers using american engines....Qvale (italy), noble (british), and detomaso (italy) all use or used ford engines. Next...go to www.gm.com...click on the innovations tab...next click on the powertrains tab...now click on the ecotec icon...you will now see that the ecotec engine was designed by gm (with help), it is clearly a gm engine that is being used in other car makers vehicles.

[GIR]

Originally Posted by cmill Polar fox...First of all I am not your friend, nor am I foolish. The word you should have used was ignorant (brush up on your english gramar).

Where do these dwarfs come from? It's like we have a cockroach investation, they lay one egg and suddenly there's millions of them!
Anywayz good for you, you can spell. Doesn't make you any smarter then the rest of the world, just qualifies you into the lewser category. Have a good time getting the typo's out this post, I'm sure nobody could give a rats arse.

Second there are european/ itallian car makers using american engines....Qvale (italy), noble (british), and detomaso (italy) all use or used ford engines.

How nice, lets get the real facts shall we. Qvale is not Italian. It is a American company which was started in 1947, back then they used to import european sports cars into the US. Their HQ is in California. For some reason they decided to buy a factory in Italy and produce a car there, not a big hit as you can see.

I hope you don't mean the Noble M12 GTO, a car which is partialy funded by Ford.

DaTomaso? I don't know where you get that one from becuase DeTomaso is still an independent producer and all their engines are produced inhouse.

You missed a few other producers who do use Ford engines. Not becuase they are better then other engines, not because they have superior engineering but because they are cheaper.

Just look at F1:
Ford engine: 3 million
Ferrari engine: 9 million
Mercedes engine: 12 million
BMW engine: 20 million

If you wanted to produce a car on a low budget, which one would you choose?

Next...go to www.gm.com...click on the innovations tab...next click on the powertrains tab...now click on the ecotec icon...you will now see that the ecotec engine was designed by gm (with help), it is clearly a gm engine that is being used in other car makers vehicles.

Funny cause EcoTec engines were available on Opel cars way before GM ever claimed it was developed by them. And in case you don't get it, EcoTec was developed by Opel, not GM. After the buy out I guess they could say EcoTec was developed by them but it's not.

After the buy out GM sent the engine over to Vauxhaul for further development.

[thepolarfoxqx]

GM owns Opel, Opel developed the Ecotec engine. Sure GM claims they developed it, they own the people who made it. It was NOT the GM in detroit who designed it. Opel made it, GM saw that is was extremely lightweight, potent, and that it fit the need they had.

Sure, Detomaso has used ford engines in the past. Detomaso is one company, and there is a reason they are considdered a tier below Ferrari and Lambo. They used for engines because they were cheap, easy to tune, and available. They were rugged and simple. It was a whole hell of a lot easier than making an engine from scratch.

My grammar huh? Maybe I'm not anal about grammar when I'm talking cars. I'll watch the details of my language at a business meeting, but i'm here to talk cars. You'll excuse me if I don't proofread all of my posts. :roll:

and when you said grammar, I believe the word you were looking for was vocabulary.

and ignorant people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork.

[makara]

Originally Posted by thepolarfoxqx and ignorant people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork.

When you say ignorant people, would you include the person who said a car runs out of steam 1100 rpm before it's hp peak?

[thepolarfoxqx]

are you going to make me dig out a torque curve graph?

that thing is making just about as many horsepower at at 4,500 as it does at 5,200 or 5,600.

use some engineering common sense and look at that engine.

I'll call it "the oversized rickity valvetrain piece"

what do you think?

[bleh]

Originally Posted by cmill Polar fox...First of all I am not your friend, nor am I foolish.

well at least your hospitable and modest

Originally Posted by cmill The word you should have used was ignorant (brush up on your english gramar). Second there are european/ itallian car makers using american engines.....

if you want to get anal, you forgot the comma after second and to captialize Italian and American. so enough with the religion on language usage.

Originally Posted by cmill Qvale (italy), noble (british), and detomaso (italy) all use or used ford engines.

this is the first time ive heard of them. not to say that they dont exist, just that they arent really going anywhere fast with there business. i am not saying there is a correlation..... merely suggesting. as far as the ecotec engine goes, well yea it does suck to be schooled.

[LateNightCable]

You know Makara, you can reply without requoting everyone back to them. It saves space.
Come to think of it, theres' a whole lot of quoting going on in this thread. I feel the heat ops: , I think I'll leave this kitchen.

[thepolarfoxqx]

i think so too. I am shutting this post down for a few days so we can let it calm down a bit.

[dcvenom]

American Sport/muscle cars ooze machismo. only a few non american cars can compare regarding pure visceral emotion. For example as near perfect the 911T is it does not give the emotional high when going 10/10ths on a track that say a viper or cobra gives you . the german cars are almost too good.
German/italian cars=super models
american cars = Porn stars.
Lambos= Jenna Jameson
'nuff said
MK