The AMG Viper?

[BURNER03]

TheEnzo is no race technology because it has a Corvette based body and engine. I know this be ause I worked on it, dont get me wrong it is fast but it is fiberglass and has a elaborated Corvette engine. SO dont get confused!!!!!!!!! :x :P ops: :roll:

[thepolarfoxqx]

i am afraid YOU are horribly confused.

the enzo has a 65 degree V12 - dual overhead camshafts, the corvette is a 90 degree v8 - pushrod/rocker arm layout. they share nothing in common.

why would ferrari be using chevy technology. Also - A ferrari Enzo is carbon fibre composite - which is pressed - not spun like fiberglass.

A ferrari enzo can trace its chasis layout and suspension design directly to the ferrari F1 cars. The engine shares technology as well.

Anyone could take a look at a corvette and an enzo and tell you there is nothing in common there.

the thought of the two being connected is absurd. [/b]

[GIR]

Most americans don't admit it because they are blinded by their patriotism but american engines are the worste (inefficient) engines available.

The only reason the viper has such a big engine is to fuel american ego's which leads you to believe you have a fast car but infact you don't. AMG, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. could make an engine of equal size but they don't. You know why? Cause the performance gain just doesn't add upto the compremises. Most of their V8's can top the engine in the viper so there real is no need...

This is a fact everybody knows, now get over your selves.

[thepolarfoxqx]

as i metioned - a 5.7L V8 corvette has a better combined fuel efficency cycle than the 3.2L I6 M3, 3.2L S/C V6 SLK32/C32, better than the 5.0L M5 by a lot, better than a 3.2L F6 boxster, and better than a 3.6L F6 911. If fuel efficency is your biggest concern, go buy a ford ka or a honda civic.

yes a dodge V10 is stupidly large (i am really hoping that dodge puts their 5.7L Hemi-V8 in viper someday). Does it really matter how you get the power so long as it works? A 4.6L DOHC supercharged SVT cobra equals an M3 in fuel efficency, acceleration, bests it in handling number, and has equal refinement to go toe to toe. Furthermore, it has a world class interior (many parts were sourced from the jaguar parts bin), and it costs signifigantly less. A porsche 911 (non turbo) is slower than a corvette, costs more, equals it in handling, it does have a nicer interior, but somehow has worse fuel economy?

you call a naturally aspirated corvette V8 stupidly large - but have no issue with a supercharged 5.5L V8 or twin turbo 5.5L V12 in an AMG?

Like it or not, american sports cars are coming of age, and quickly becoming world class.

[GIR]

First of I would like to apoligize for me being rude... the mods edited it out but anywayz, for the people that did see my words sorry.

Yes the American car industry is coming of age very fast I agree and the industry has rolled out a few impressive cars.

I don't have anything against the new Corvette Z06 just that I don't like roadsters. But the AMG V8 5.5 pulls a 500hp at 6500rpm and delivers a torque of 700Nm at 2.750rpm. The Corvette Z06 pulls 405hp at 6000rpm en delivers a torque of 542Nm at 4800RPM.

Despite the corvette engine being a little bigger... the AMG engine delivers better performance and fuel economy. Mercedes however has a reputation of making big and sturdy (thus heavy) cars which give the engine some extra workload.

I've been having second thoughts about the new CL65. I mean yes the V12 has a nice performance (1000Nm at 2000rpm wauw) but the price for it is just to high. I really don't know why Mercedes made this engine. I guess it's more a showcase model then a model ment for mass production, like a my gender is bigger then your gender thing. But still the performance they squeeze out that V12 6.0 is amazing to say the least.

There are a few examples where American cars pass European or Japanese cars in performance, handeling, comfort and luxury, unfortunatly this is more an exception then a rule and in almost all the cases they were help by a european manufacturer, overall European and Japanese cars still come out on top. The American car industry has a trackrecord of making inefficient cars and this is only because of the American way of life. Americans like to have big cars with big engines and don't care about fuel economy, you really can't blame the industry for giving the people what they want (thus American cars are suited for American people).

In this example the Dodge Viper is the inefficient car I have ever seen. A V10 8L which can only pull 450 hp at 5200 rpm and deliver a torque of 490 at 3700 rpm is horribly horribly wrong. As said in this thread this engine has more potential (hennessey venom upgrades) and can only be reached after lots of money is pored into the car. The hennessey upgrades aren't as common as some people here might let one to believe, according to the hennessey site they've only built 4 viper hennessey machines to date. The hennessey upgrades are like a racing project turned commecrial, as exclusive as it gets. Still strange that Dodge can't get max power out that engine and a company like hennessey has to come into play to boost it upto max.

[thepolarfoxqx]

even with the hennesey upgrades, i fear a viper is just too antiquated to be a force in the sports car world. Mercedes' AMG makes stellar cars, while I am preferential to M-Power, I have emmense respect for the work AMG does. The corvette does have a better fuel economy than any AMG car. This said, it is also smaller and ligher than any AMG car. Pound for pound, the more advanced supercharged AMG motors are much more efficent. Some day corvette will move back to the 32V DOHC style they used in the LT5 powered ZR-1 - and hopefully dodge will develop their Hemi-v8 for the viper. Mercedes already has a 4 valve revisions of their engines in development, which will only add to the great power these cars have.

A lot of what american cars have is emotion. to someone who drives a corvette, nothing on earth could replace the small-block bark and the shake and shimmy during acceleration. An AMG driver appreciates the monsterous jet-engine style super smooth power all the way through, and the wonderful composure this car holds through any manouver. I suppose M and Porsche drivers are somewhere in between.

[GIR]

Okay here's another reason for me to hate American cars!

I live near a NATO base, thus there are allkinds of soldiers around (nationalities). One American soldier totaled my car with his truck today

Here's how it happend.

He's coming from a "shopping area" which means that he's on an exit (He probably didn't see the 3 huge signs which say exit and he probbaly also missed that elevated piece of road which should've slowed him down... guess it didn't). Here the rules say that when ur on an exit all the traffic has the right of way, he probably didn't know this. He kinda made a slowing down motion so It thought he's gonna stop (I might have been mistake) but he didn't and smashed into the rightside of my precious.

My insurance company has to send an expert to ases the damage, but my guess is that it will be declared financely totaled. The truck was so high that the 2 rightdoors are gone, the roof is a little offset and the side airbags came out.

The worste thing is that he didn't have any local insurance, just some american company, which is probably gona give me a big hassle.

Anywayz, all the more reason to buy a CL55 and all the more reason for me to hate American cars

[BURNER03]

Originally Posted by thepolarfoxqx as i metioned - a 5.7L V8 corvette has a better combined fuel efficency cycle than the 3.2L I6 M3, 3.2L S/C V6 SLK32/C32, better than the 5.0L M5 by a lot, better than a 3.2L F6 boxster, and better than a 3.6L F6 911. If fuel efficency is your biggest concern, go buy a ford ka or a honda civic. yes a dodge V10 is stupidly large (i am really hoping that dodge puts their 5.7L Hemi-V8 in viper someday). Does it really matter how you get the power so long as it works? A 4.6L DOHC supercharged SVT cobra equals an M3 in fuel efficency, acceleration, bests it in handling number, and has equal refinement to go toe to toe. Furthermore, it has a world class interior (many parts were sourced from the jaguar parts bin), and it costs signifigantly less. A porsche 911 (non turbo) is slower than a corvette, costs more, equals it in handling, it does have a nicer interior, but somehow has worse fuel economy? you call a naturally aspirated corvette V8 stupidly large - but have no issue with a supercharged 5.5L V8 or twin turbo 5.5L V12 in an AMG? Like it or not, american sports cars are coming of age, and quickly becoming world class.

Again I tell you, I am not denying the race technology because it is true we put a lot of F1 tech in there but because the son of the owner just became president of Ferrari and is totally ignorant of tech and he likes Vettes and believes we could make a light car like that with that V8 sound american cars are famous for he took the engine of a Z06 and literally said to me and the rest of the engineering team "I want you to totally revolutionize thisso we can have the same Vette sound but louder and a better engine." We argued with him because obviously nobody wanted to use Chevy technology but then he started firing people so we kept our mouths shut and totally changed the engine to a Ferrari style. And your right Mr. Thepolarfoxq the dimensions are entirely different because we really changed it, the prototype that we showed the president was diffferent than the one you see and hear about.

[BURNER03]

sorry, Mr. Polarfoxqx I used the wrong quote

[thepolarfoxqx]

i find that immensely difficult to comprehend. The suspension layout on a corvette is a composite monoleaf multi-link layout, unique in the world, and certainly very different from the ferrari double wishbone style. Furthermore, the center engine layout, and head design of the ferrari make it impossible it will ever drive or sound at all like a corvette.

A corvette's engine is out the GM truck parts bin. Why would you want that?


To GIR, how can you hate american cars just because someone hit you with one? I could have done the same with my english land rover. I see people in japanese cars drive like absolute fools everyday, but I don't hate them.