Viper exhaust problems - Page 2

djfux69 · 01-17-03, 08:46 PM

thats awesome that it can put out a time like that.. 3.9 is very respectable. im not sure but i thought that skid pad was how well the car can hold its weight in a curve.. and slalom was how well the car can shift its weight without it losing control... what does the zo6 do in the slalom?

silvertabone · 01-17-03, 09:07 PM

The Cars above are very close in the Slalom, The Z08 @64.8, The Z06 @ 68.5mph, The Porsche 911 Turbo 68.6, Ferrari 360 68.9, and the Dodge Viper ACR did it at 70.8 mph and the Ford Mustang Cobra R was @ 69.4mph. So they are pretty comparable, but the Z06 and the Cobra R are the two least expensive cars in that group... Also, remember that this data is a side by side controlled test, there are some variances depending on track and weather conditions.
I couldnt find the SRT10 Data, but I have heard that it is comparable to the Viper ACR in Slalom, so its pretty high up there. But remember that both the skidpad and the slalom contain signals of cornering and handling performance, not one or the other.

djfux69 · 01-17-03, 09:30 PM

impressive times

i agree 30 mpg is good for a car with 400hp on tap but i was talking about the viper.. no one said that the zo6 had a bad engine.. but also which 911 are u talking about? i know that turbo decreases gas mileage significantly. after my car went turbo i have horrible gas mileage. but amazing hp/l. but are we talking about a fast car?? or a car that gets good mileage here?? i was talking about how the viper has a huge engine and with what it has it should produce more impressive numbers. not how good of gas mileage the zo6 has.

jRaskell · 01-17-03, 09:47 PM

I'm just trying to understand your perception that higher hp/liter = refinement, and just what exactly that perception is based on. As far as American cars are concerned, I think it's this simple, High displacement high horsepower engines are cheaper and more reliable to maintain dollar for dollar. I am NOT trying to say European sports cars aren't reliable. I'm saying you pay for that reliability. DOHC and high tech engine management are complicated and cost money. Simple engineering mantra, complication = less reliability.

I would really like you to do a little more research and investigation into the Z06 LS6 engine. If you can look beyond the fact that it is a pushrod engine and this hp/liter metric (which overall has absolutely no bearing on, you will see it is a very refined and well developed engine in it's own right. I just don't see how an educated opinion of the Z06 could be that it is an unrefined sports car.

djfux69 · 01-17-03, 09:58 PM

you keep talking about the zo6 but im talking about the viper.. im not disagreeing with you about what you say about the vette.. i am agreeing. i am impressed with its numbers. i think that the price is a bit high but thats my opinion and i dont expect u to agree.. but again it is MY opinion. again it is my opinion that the zo6 is not a racecar engine.. in MY opinion a racecar has a nice high revving engine. an ample amount of power, and great response. i feel that the vette and the viper rev too low for my tastes.. again MY tastes.. i like the vette engine but i dont feel that it is a raceing engine.. i do not like the viper engine because i think with its displacement it should be producing a lot more power.

oh and my idea of refinment would be get rid of the pushrods.. go with a lil DOHC maybe some variable timing. its seems to me like an old engine.. old tech. not bad just old

jRaskell · 01-17-03, 10:26 PM

My responses have been made towards statements by others (including you) that the Z06 was an unrefined sports car, and honestly I don't think the Viper is in a very different position.

And I'll reply to your opinion that race engine are high revving engines, and guess what, I'll use the C5R, yes, the Corvette Race car, with an LS1 derived pushrod engine cranking out 620hp at 6400RPM, just a few hundred RPM over the production corvette redline. The C5R has always been a competitor in all it's classes.

So opinion, and what is and isn't opinion. The C5R IS a race car with a race engine that is NOT high revving. That's a fact. So, you may prefer high revving engines, that may be your tastes, and you have said as much. You can say you don't like the LS1 cause it's not a high revving engine, but the LS1 IS a race engine nonetheless. That is a fact, not an opinion. And as for the Viper, it's all the same. The Viper engine IS a race engine, used very successfully in the GTS-R, a pure bred race car, which won the 97 GT2 manufacturers world championship with a 488ci version of the Viper v10 making 650hp@6000RPM. This is direct competition with teams using Porsche, Audi, and BMW hardware.

So to recap, opinions do not directly contradict known facts. Fact 1, the LS1 engine is a race engine used very successfully in a race car. Fact 2, the Viper engine is a race engine also used very successfully in a race car. And finally there's opinion. You do not like low revving RACE engines.

djfux69 · 01-17-03, 10:52 PM

good well at least you understand my opinion... and again i never debated the fact weather the engines were succesfull or not.. i stated that i feel that an engine of the size of the viper should produce better numbers..

jRaskell · 01-18-03, 12:19 AM

Quote:

i stated that i feel that an engine of the size of the viper should produce better numbers..

Ok. Replace should and with the world could and I'll agree with that statement. As for whether it should or not, that's simply a matter of philosophy. American manufacturer philosophy in general (when it comes to sports cars anyways) is to pick a horsepower target, and get to that target as economically, reliably, and efficiently as possible. When the goal is arranged in that manner, large displacement is always the best bang for the buck. Dodge built the Viper with target horsepower goals, not target displacement goals. They wanted 400hp, then 450hp, and now 500hp. The same design ideals are applied to GM and Ford sports cars as well. Dodge engineers didn't get caught up in tweaking every ounce of hp they could get out of every milliliter of displacement they had. That kind of philosophy gets complicated, costs money, and makes things more likely to break.

New technology is great and fun. High tech engines with all sorts of special components, advanced controls, and computer interfaces are a blast, as well as fascinating material to research and oooh and ahh over. But seriously, why build a 400hp engine for 20 grand when you can build one for 5 grand? If that's refinement, then you can keep your refinement. I like American sports cars just the way they are. Fast and affordable, thank you very much. And I'm comfortable with the fact that most Americans agree with me.

thepolarfoxqx · 01-18-03, 12:29 AM

the LS6 engine goes as far towards overhead cam powerlevels and refinement as can be expected, the Viper's V10 does produce a lot low end, but a tuned up version of the new Hemi-Magnum would be easily a much more well rounded choice. I personally feel the high winding, yet torquey, 5.4L DOHC Cobra-R motor was nice (though it should have been putting out mid 400s for hp). The new 8.3L viper engine is an improvement, but really I think for fast cars, something a bit more homogeneous is in order.

izzyloveslizzy · 03-18-03, 05:25 AM

You want exhast problems? You people don't know what Viper Exhaust problems mean. Go search on the net for videos (WITH SOUND) of the new Dodge Tomahawk from it's debut at the North American International Auto Show. This (for those of you who don't know) is basically a motorcycle with four wheels powered by the 500HP 8.3L V10 Dodge Viper Engine, with absolutely nothing done to it to reduce the exhaust sound.

And the fact that the acceleration of this futuristic tetra-cycle is 2.5 seconds from 0-100KPH, and that it's maximum speed if just over 400MPH is n't the scary thing.

The most freightening thing about the Tomahawk is it's apocalyptic exhaust note that drowns out everything else on god's green earth. Nevermind the fact that you may kill yourself 200 time over by "driving" this thing, because you will lose the ability to hear as soon as you fire it up.

So to conquer on one of the first things one of you said, yeah, it must have been just a bunch'o sissies b****ing about absolutely nothing at all.